Krugman Explained (Min Wage)

DGS49

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2012
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Pittsburgh
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.
 
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.

You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.
 
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.

You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.
How true. I also love the total lack of honesty. DGS cuts and pastes some far right drivel but then does not provide a reference to the source. So, ignorant AND dishonest.
 
When taking one of my economics courses I noticed Krugman was a co-author. Reading his crap in the NYT does not coincide with what is written in that text book. Like many liberals, he knows better but has to placate the base. Thus he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
 
When taking one of my economics courses I noticed Krugman was a co-author. Reading his crap in the NYT does not coincide with what is written in that text book. Like many liberals, he knows better but has to placate the base. Thus he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
Thanks for your opinion. It has absolutely no value, but thanks for trying.
 
When taking one of my economics courses I noticed Krugman was a co-author. Reading his crap in the NYT does not coincide with what is written in that text book. Like many liberals, he knows better but has to placate the base. Thus he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
Thanks for your opinion. It has absolutely no value, but thanks for trying.

Go fuck yourself. Too bad I confused you. get an education, dim.
 
When taking one of my economics courses I noticed Krugman was a co-author. Reading his crap in the NYT does not coincide with what is written in that text book. Like many liberals, he knows better but has to placate the base. Thus he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
Thanks for your opinion. It has absolutely no value, but thanks for trying.

Go fuck yourself. Too bad I confused you. get an education, dim.
Here is the deal, dipshit, you can never, ever confuse anyone when you say nothing but rather simply post drivel. Dogma. I have my education. If you want to discuss economics, go for it. Unfortunately, all you are capable of is posting right wing dogma. Back to your bat shit crazy con web sites to reload, me boy.
 
Thanks for your opinion. It has absolutely no value, but thanks for trying.

Go fuck yourself. Too bad I confused you. get an education, dim.
Here is the deal, dipshit, you can never, ever confuse anyone when you say nothing but rather simply post drivel. Dogma. I have my education. If you want to discuss economics, go for it. Unfortunately, all you are capable of is posting right wing dogma. Back to your bat shit crazy con web sites to reload, me boy.

And even more of your bullshit. Discuss the issues or sit there and fondle your balls. Your personal attacks only prove that I'm correct. Stay in school.
 
Go fuck yourself. Too bad I confused you. get an education, dim.
Here is the deal, dipshit, you can never, ever confuse anyone when you say nothing but rather simply post drivel. Dogma. I have my education. If you want to discuss economics, go for it. Unfortunately, all you are capable of is posting right wing dogma. Back to your bat shit crazy con web sites to reload, me boy.

And even more of your bullshit. Discuss the issues or sit there and fondle your balls. Your personal attacks only prove that I'm correct. Stay in school.
Funny. You apparently think you are discussing the issue of this thread. You are incapable. So you just do what cons typically do - childish attacks. Good for you.
Stay in school??? You have no clue. Really bad guess.
 
Here is the deal, dipshit, you can never, ever confuse anyone when you say nothing but rather simply post drivel. Dogma. I have my education. If you want to discuss economics, go for it. Unfortunately, all you are capable of is posting right wing dogma. Back to your bat shit crazy con web sites to reload, me boy.

And even more of your bullshit. Discuss the issues or sit there and fondle your balls. Your personal attacks only prove that I'm correct. Stay in school.
Funny. You apparently think you are discussing the issue of this thread. You are incapable. So you just do what cons typically do - childish attacks. Good for you.
Stay in school??? You have no clue. Really bad guess.

Do you realize that you have not contributed anything to this thread? Why post here?:confused:
 
And even more of your bullshit. Discuss the issues or sit there and fondle your balls. Your personal attacks only prove that I'm correct. Stay in school.
Funny. You apparently think you are discussing the issue of this thread. You are incapable. So you just do what cons typically do - childish attacks. Good for you.
Stay in school??? You have no clue. Really bad guess.

Do you realize that you have not contributed anything to this thread? Why post here?:confused:
There IS nothing in this thread to contribute to. Just cons making stupid statements and attacking. No value at all. So my contribution is quite obvious to those with a brain: Say something specific. Simple attacks using colorful language is a waste of time.

Krugman is not my cup of tea. But he is an economist with good credentials. So, what we have here are people, like yourself, who can not discuss your differences with Krugman with economic understanding. Or by making an economic argument. Next.
 
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.

You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.

oh brother
instead of the topic on the economy you get all worked up over a WORD, and got atta boys for it too...what trollish snob
 
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.

You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.

That is probably because you have never been to any of those things.
 
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.

You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.

oh brother
instead of the topic on the economy you get all worked up over a WORD, and got atta boys for it too...what trollish snob
Yup. That would be it. I am sure you believe that you have a much better background and understanding of economics than old fart. Let's see. No background. PHD. No background. PHD. My money is on the old fart.
 
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.

You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.
I can't believe someone who refers to himself as an antiquated Stage I Freudian bubble would complain about anybody else's 4-letter word on a political board.

Bwahahahaha! :rofl:
 
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Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.
Yep. Krug's a slug. :lol:
 
Those who follow such things understand that Paul Krugman, Nobel-winning economist and NYT pundit is the economic guru to not only Our Beloved President, but also to the whole Progressive movement in this country. I mean, how can you dispute the wisdom of, for example, trillions of dollars in "stimulus" spending of borrowed and printed money when a Nobel-fucking-prize-winning economist not only SUPPORTS it, but CLAIMS IT IS NOT ENOUGH! Claims that the Prez has been too timid!

I have always wondered how and why Dr. Krugman persistently spouts such economic nonsense, and I frequently seek out articles by other economists who dig up the real data to show Krugman as a fraud and manipulator of data. But today I happened upon an article in HuffPo on line by a guy named Benjamin Powell that actually explains it in language that anyone can understand (posted 12/12/2013). It is an article about the minimum wage, and Powell explains that there are actually TWO PAUL KRUGMAN's: One who is a competent economist, and one who is a pundit - a flack for democrat politicians. And his positions on the Minimum Wage are pretty much 180 degrees opposed to each other, depending on whether he is speaking as an economist or as a pundit. He explains it much better than I can, so here goes:

Paul Krugman's recent call to raise the minimum wage is consistent with much of his liberal political writing over the past decade. But raising the minimum wage is not consistent with Krugman's writing as an economist. Those who care about the poor should pay more attention to Krugman the economist than to Krugman the liberal pundit.

Krugman uses the Christmas shopping season, and the fact that 60 percent of minimum wage workers are in sales or food services, to talk about the decline in the real wages of people working in retail. His solution to their problems: "We can raise the minimum wage."

But before we embrace the policy prescription of Krugman the pundit, let's ask the opinion of Krugman the economist. In his 1998 review of a book on living wages he wrote: "So what are the effects of increasing minimum wages? Any Econ 101 student can tell you the answer: The higher wage reduces the quantity of labor demanded, and hence leads to unemployment."

Krugman the economist should know. He co-authors an Econ 101 textbook. The 2008 edition clearly states, "when the minimum wage is above the equilibrium wage rate, some people who are willing to work--that is, sell labor--cannot find buyers--that is, employers--willing to give them jobs."

Most people's employment prospects aren't harmed by a minimum wage because their productivity is far above the legal mandate. Young people with fewer skills are the most affected. Roughly a quarter of all minimum-wage earners are teenagers, and more than half are under 25 years old. It's no accident that these age groups have the highest unemployment rates. Teen unemployment is 22.2 percent while 12.5 percent of 20 to 24 year olds are unemployed, compared to the U.S. national average of 7.3 percent.

People who deny that the minimum wage causes unemployment often point to the empirical work of economists David Card and Alan Kruger, whose study and subsequent 1997 book didn't find an unemployment effect of the minimum wage. What did Krugman the economist think of their work? Here's what he wrote:

"What is remarkable...is how this [Card and Kruger's] rather iffy result has been seized upon by some liberals as a rationale for making large minimum wage increases a core component of the liberal agenda.... Clearly these advocates very much want to believe that the price of labor--unlike that of gasoline, or Manhattan apartments--can be set based on considerations of justice, not supply and demand, without unpleasant side effects.
So fifteen years later, why does Krugman the pundit not believe Krugman the economist? New evidence has surfaced but the bulk of it agrees with Krugman the economist, not the pundit. Economists David Neumark and William Wascher surveyed the vast literature studying the effects of minimum-wage laws in their recent book, Minimum Wages. They find that the bulk of the evidence accumulated over the last 20 years indicates that minimum-wage laws reduce employment for the least-skilled workers and lowers their earnings
."

Maybe Krugman the economist can give us some insight into Krugman the pundit's newfound faith in the minimum wage. In 1998 he asked why liberals supported a minimum wage. His answer:

"What the living [minimum] wage is really about is not living standards, or even economics, but morality. Its advocates are basically opposed to the idea that wages are a market price--determined by supply and demand, the same as the price of apples or coal. And it is for that reason, rather than the practical details, that the broader political movement of which the demand for a living wage is the leading edge is ultimately doomed to failure: For the amorality of the market economy is part of its essence, and cannot be legislated away."

When Krugman the moral pundit asks: "Doesn't that [minimum wage] violate the law of supply and demand? Won't the market gods smite us with their invisible hand?", he need only turn to Krugman the economist for his answer: Yes. Economics put limits on our utopian fantasies.

Unfortunately, Krugman the pundit writes from a fantasyland that should embarrass Krugman the economist.

You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.
I can't believe someone who refers to himself as a Stage I Freudian bubble would complain about anybody else's 4-letter word on a political board.

Bwahahahaha! :rofl:
But then, Freedom, you have NO idea of economics anyway. back to the bat shit crazy con web sites. Try to make some sense out of your statement. Jesus, me girl. That was ignorant.
 
You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.
I can't believe someone who refers to himself as a Stage I Freudian bubble would complain about anybody else's 4-letter word on a political board.

Bwahahahaha! :rofl:
But then, Freedom, you have NO idea of economics anyway. back to the bat shit crazy con web sites. Try to make some sense out of your statement. Jesus, me girl. That was ignorant.
Your vapid understanding of the English language is going to remain in my rear view mirror. Still smarting for having your tiresome, party-inspired House of Cards wiped out by [MENTION=29707]Toddsterpatriot[/MENTION]?

< giggle >
 
You use an economic term I am unfamiliar with: "fucking". Which is why I don't bother to read the rest of your post. I have never encountered this term used in any economics class, seminar, or professional discussion. It is out of place. Which tells me that you must be entirely ignorant of economics, as you refuse to use language appropriate to the subject. Go marginalize yourself.

oh brother
instead of the topic on the economy you get all worked up over a WORD, and got atta boys for it too...what trollish snob
Yup. That would be it. I am sure you believe that you have a much better background and understanding of economics than old fart. Let's see. No background. PHD. No background. PHD. My money is on the old fart.


I have 26 PhDs, 12 Nemmers, and 2 Nobel Prizes.

See how easy that is?
 

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