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Sure...don't care if Iran hates us, and treat them like shit. But then stop your bitching when they fund Iraqis to blow up our soldiers.
Dude...there are evil countries in this world...you just pointed to several of them. But, we aren't one of the evil countries.
No, we are good, and wholesome, we stand for freedom....but if it comes to sacrificing some American lives for those values, well, we'll just sacrifice the values without a second thought.
If you advocate torture, you don't get to say we aren't evil. You can give whatever bullshit defense you want, but torture is evil, and people who do it are evil, and state sponsored torture makes this country evil.
Dude...there are evil countries in this world...you just pointed to several of them. But, we aren't one of the evil countries.
No, we are good, and wholesome, we stand for freedom....but if it comes to sacrificing some American lives for those values, well, we'll just sacrifice the values without a second thought.
If you advocate torture, you don't get to say we aren't evil. You can give whatever bullshit defense you want, but torture is evil, and people who do it are evil, and state sponsored torture makes this country evil.
We don't torture. By my sights, if it's something college kids do for entertainment, it's not torture:
Do they practice sleep deprivation? Ever take finals?
And liquid diets? You bet, after the "Freshman Ten."
And here's your waterboarding:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw0kbp-WQ3U[/ame]
Sure...don't care if Iran hates us, and treat them like shit. But then stop your bitching when they fund Iraqis to blow up our soldiers.
Dude...there are evil countries in this world...you just pointed to several of them. But, we aren't one of the evil countries.
No, we are good, and wholesome, we stand for freedom....but if it comes to sacrificing some American lives for those values, well, we'll just sacrifice the values without a second thought.
If you advocate torture, you don't get to say we aren't evil. You can give whatever bullshit defense you want, but torture is evil, and people who do it are evil, and state sponsored torture makes this country evil.
Dude...there are evil countries in this world...you just pointed to several of them. But, we aren't one of the evil countries.
No, we are good, and wholesome, we stand for freedom....but if it comes to sacrificing some American lives for those values, well, we'll just sacrifice the values without a second thought.
If you advocate torture, you don't get to say we aren't evil. You can give whatever bullshit defense you want, but torture is evil, and people who do it are evil, and state sponsored torture makes this country evil.
We don't torture. By my sights, if it's something college kids do for entertainment, it's not torture:
Do they practice sleep deprivation? Ever take finals?
And liquid diets? You bet, after the "Freshman Ten."
And here's your waterboarding:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw0kbp-WQ3U[/ame]
No, we are good, and wholesome, we stand for freedom....but if it comes to sacrificing some American lives for those values, well, we'll just sacrifice the values without a second thought.
If you advocate torture, you don't get to say we aren't evil. You can give whatever bullshit defense you want, but torture is evil, and people who do it are evil, and state sponsored torture makes this country evil.
We don't torture. By my sights, if it's something college kids do for entertainment, it's not torture:
Do they practice sleep deprivation? Ever take finals?
And liquid diets? You bet, after the "Freshman Ten."
And here's your waterboarding:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw0kbp-WQ3U[/ame]
I'm sure that was just like the scene at Guantanamo.
Dude...there are evil countries in this world...you just pointed to several of them. But, we aren't one of the evil countries.
No, we are good, and wholesome, we stand for freedom....but if it comes to sacrificing some American lives for those values, well, we'll just sacrifice the values without a second thought.
If you advocate torture, you don't get to say we aren't evil. You can give whatever bullshit defense you want, but torture is evil, and people who do it are evil, and state sponsored torture makes this country evil.
Don't tell me what I can say or what I can't say. This is your opinion...that's it, your opinion...not mine. You want to sacrafice some innocent American lives to protect the perpetrators of terrorism from discomfort...I say your evil. So go pound sand
We don't torture. By my sights, if it's something college kids do for entertainment, it's not torture:
Do they practice sleep deprivation? Ever take finals?
And liquid diets? You bet, after the "Freshman Ten."
And here's your waterboarding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw0kbp-WQ3U
I'm sure that was just like the scene at Guantanamo.
I don't know who is more naive, Nik, or you...I'm leaning towards Nik, though.
No, we are good, and wholesome, we stand for freedom....but if it comes to sacrificing some American lives for those values, well, we'll just sacrifice the values without a second thought.
If you advocate torture, you don't get to say we aren't evil. You can give whatever bullshit defense you want, but torture is evil, and people who do it are evil, and state sponsored torture makes this country evil.
Don't tell me what I can say or what I can't say. This is your opinion...that's it, your opinion...not mine. You want to sacrafice some innocent American lives to protect the perpetrators of terrorism from discomfort...I say your evil. So go pound sand
Well if you got killed, it wouldn't be "innocent" Americans who got killed. Say whatever you want, just expect that any sane individual is going to laugh in your face if you actually spout this kind of shit seriously in public. We torture, but we aren't evil. For fucks sake. We are the bastion of freedom, individual liberty, and the land of the waterboard.
We don't torture. By my sights, if it's something college kids do for entertainment, it's not torture:
Do they practice sleep deprivation? Ever take finals?
And liquid diets? You bet, after the "Freshman Ten."
And here's your waterboarding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw0kbp-WQ3U
I'm sure that was just like the scene at Guantanamo.
I don't know who is more naive, Nik, or you...I'm leaning towards Nik, though.
Don't tell me what I can say or what I can't say. This is your opinion...that's it, your opinion...not mine. You want to sacrafice some innocent American lives to protect the perpetrators of terrorism from discomfort...I say your evil. So go pound sand
Well if you got killed, it wouldn't be "innocent" Americans who got killed. Say whatever you want, just expect that any sane individual is going to laugh in your face if you actually spout this kind of shit seriously in public. We torture, but we aren't evil. For fucks sake. We are the bastion of freedom, individual liberty, and the land of the waterboard.
Stick your head up your ass and roll down the sidewalk asshole. Why don't you say to your family that they would be sacrificed for the sake of your fucking values.
PS...Sorry for the language Political Chic. I had to let go on this asshole.
SPLAT! WOW! HOLY HISTORY BATMAN!
Naw, not childlike at all. Congrats on the improvement on your vocabulary.
I believe you missed the question, as you have missed so much in life, but to reprise, are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?
The bogus story used by the left that our actions in Abu Ghraib served as recruitment for Al Qaeda is no more than a talking point. Your article is dated 2008.
In 2005, "Al-Qaeda leaders have proclaimed Iraq a major front in their global terrorist campaign. This was made clear in a July 9, 2005, letter from Osama bin Ladens chief lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who was then leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq."
Iraq Is a Strategic Battleground in the War Against Terrorism
There is no proof that a "the major recruiting tool " was even necessary.
"A child is unaware of consequences." Exactly my point with respect to your inability to see the efficacy of enhanced interrogation. Our challenge is to prevent the evil ones from killing even one more of our citizens. Can't see that, huh?
That's why your left-wing heros like Church and Torricelli prevented our intell community from recruiting spys. "A child is unaware of consequences."
And, of course, the winner in the category of unintentional humor is ... you. Read this part of your quote carefully, not the method you learned in government schools, but carefully:
"It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, ..."
At least half... of a number that will never be known.????
You must be a Crypto-Conservative, because you make liberals look so bad. It's really not fair. Fun, but not fair.
Umm, actually LOTS of officials have said the best thing to ever happen to AQ was Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Oh, and learn the definition for the word "definitive".
Documentation?
Oh, you don't need proof: you're a liberal.
Tutorial time:
"For liberals, feeling passes for knowing. We see this in the oft-repeated claim that the use of torture techniques has been a recruiting tool for Al Qaeda. Where is the proof of this claim?
For liberals, taking guns away from lawful citizens is tantamount to solving the crime problem. Where is the proof?"
Well if you got killed, it wouldn't be "innocent" Americans who got killed. Say whatever you want, just expect that any sane individual is going to laugh in your face if you actually spout this kind of shit seriously in public. We torture, but we aren't evil. For fucks sake. We are the bastion of freedom, individual liberty, and the land of the waterboard.
Stick your head up your ass and roll down the sidewalk asshole. Why don't you say to your family that they would be sacrificed for the sake of your fucking values.
PS...Sorry for the language Political Chic. I had to let go on this asshole.
Right. My family might have been hurt in that 2002 attack that KSM warned us about, even though he wasn't captured till 2003. You don't know that anyone is saved by torturing. But your just willing to do it anyway because "what if". Well, we might as well just nuke Russia, cause "what if" they get a bug up their ass? This type of disingenuous, bullshit reasoning is really asinine. Besides the rampant evidence that this kind of shit makes us less popular and makes more people want to attack us. But no, you just ignore that evidence, like any other evidence which goes against your sick sociopathic views.
Stick your head up your ass and roll down the sidewalk asshole. Why don't you say to your family that they would be sacrificed for the sake of your fucking values.
PS...Sorry for the language Political Chic. I had to let go on this asshole.
Right. My family might have been hurt in that 2002 attack that KSM warned us about, even though he wasn't captured till 2003. You don't know that anyone is saved by torturing. But your just willing to do it anyway because "what if". Well, we might as well just nuke Russia, cause "what if" they get a bug up their ass? This type of disingenuous, bullshit reasoning is really asinine. Besides the rampant evidence that this kind of shit makes us less popular and makes more people want to attack us. But no, you just ignore that evidence, like any other evidence which goes against your sick sociopathic views.
You can kiss Iran, and Russia, and Noth Korea, and Venezuela's asses...and there still going to hate you. You want to appease with Iran? Become a Muslim, that's the only way. There is a cost to become friends with your buddies...but it has nothing to do with waterboarding. What an ideologic naive child. Maybe you should have stayed up 11 days and studied in college, because the way you did it, wasn't working.
Right. My family might have been hurt in that 2002 attack that KSM warned us about, even though he wasn't captured till 2003. You don't know that anyone is saved by torturing. But your just willing to do it anyway because "what if". Well, we might as well just nuke Russia, cause "what if" they get a bug up their ass? This type of disingenuous, bullshit reasoning is really asinine. Besides the rampant evidence that this kind of shit makes us less popular and makes more people want to attack us. But no, you just ignore that evidence, like any other evidence which goes against your sick sociopathic views.
You can kiss Iran, and Russia, and Noth Korea, and Venezuela's asses...and there still going to hate you. You want to appease with Iran? Become a Muslim, that's the only way. There is a cost to become friends with your buddies...but it has nothing to do with waterboarding. What an ideologic naive child. Maybe you should have stayed up 11 days and studied in college, because the way you did it, wasn't working.
Venezuala and Russia, no. Iran, probably. But there is a difference between the country getting into a stupid anti-American later, and America providing them with material that is so inflammatory that it makes someone want to sacrifice their life in a suicide attack.
And no, becoming a Muslim isn't the only way to become closer to Iran. But then, you wouldn't know that because your views of foreign policy are all black and white. Good and evil. Except that we are necessarily good, no matter what. Jesus, you are like a 6 year old.
Stick your head up your ass and roll down the sidewalk asshole. Why don't you say to your family that they would be sacrificed for the sake of your fucking values.
PS...Sorry for the language Political Chic. I had to let go on this asshole.
Right. My family might have been hurt in that 2002 attack that KSM warned us about, even though he wasn't captured till 2003. You don't know that anyone is saved by torturing. But your just willing to do it anyway because "what if". Well, we might as well just nuke Russia, cause "what if" they get a bug up their ass? This type of disingenuous, bullshit reasoning is really asinine. Besides the rampant evidence that this kind of shit makes us less popular and makes more people want to attack us. But no, you just ignore that evidence, like any other evidence which goes against your sick sociopathic views.
You can kiss Iran, and Russia, and Noth Korea, and Venezuela's asses...and there still going to hate you. You want to appease with Iran? Become a Muslim, that's the only way. There is a cost to become friends with your buddies...but it has nothing to do with waterboarding. What an ideologic naive child. Maybe you should have stayed up 11 days and studied in college, because the way you did it, wasn't working.
Right. My family might have been hurt in that 2002 attack that KSM warned us about, even though he wasn't captured till 2003. You don't know that anyone is saved by torturing. But your just willing to do it anyway because "what if". Well, we might as well just nuke Russia, cause "what if" they get a bug up their ass? This type of disingenuous, bullshit reasoning is really asinine. Besides the rampant evidence that this kind of shit makes us less popular and makes more people want to attack us. But no, you just ignore that evidence, like any other evidence which goes against your sick sociopathic views.
You can kiss Iran, and Russia, and Noth Korea, and Venezuela's asses...and there still going to hate you. You want to appease with Iran? Become a Muslim, that's the only way. There is a cost to become friends with your buddies...but it has nothing to do with waterboarding. What an ideologic naive child. Maybe you should have stayed up 11 days and studied in college, because the way you did it, wasn't working.
Despite some bad blood on both sides (US overthrow of Govt and support for Shah, support for Iraq, the aggressor in the Iran-Iraq war, shooting down Iranian commercial jet; Iranian seizure of hostages and suggested implication in terrorist attacks) relations had thawed quite a bit by 2001. The "death to America" chants were gone; Iranians held candlelight vigils and moments of silence in sympathy for the 9-11 attacks. No friends of the Taliban, Iran assisted the US with the takeover of Afghanistan. They had at the time a relatively moderate President, and had signaled a willingess to negotiate, including the nuclear option.
Then came the "axis of evil" statement and the invasion of Iraq.
Umm, actually LOTS of officials have said the best thing to ever happen to AQ was Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Oh, and learn the definition for the word "definitive".
Documentation?
Oh, you don't need proof: you're a liberal.
Tutorial time:
"For liberals, feeling passes for knowing. We see this in the oft-repeated claim that the use of torture techniques has been a recruiting tool for Al Qaeda. Where is the proof of this claim?
For liberals, taking guns away from lawful citizens is tantamount to solving the crime problem. Where is the proof?"
Gee, PC, still on these overbroad, inaccurate generalizations about liberals?
I was disappointed you didn't hang around to defend your assertion in the Conservative v. Liberal thread after I found those several examples I cited for us to discuss.
Khalid Sheik Mohammed: "I Gave A Lot Of False Information" To Make Torture Stop
For all the attention that the Bush administration torture memos have been receiving over past month, those documents pale in comparison to the revelations documented in the leaked 40-page report issued by the International Committee for the Red Cross following two rounds of private interviews it held with the 14 "high value detainees" held at Guantanamo Bay.
If you want to know what our country did to those detainees -- especially Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, and Rahim al-Nashiri (all three were waterboarded and suffered the worst treatment) -- then read the Red Cross report. It will leave you with a very sickening feeling about the depths to which President Bush and Vice President Cheney were willing to go to try to justify its disastrous war in Iraq (while the detainees were providing ample information during FBI interrogations about the 9/11 plot, the torture apparently began as they sought evidence about the non-existent al-Qaida/Iraq link) and how we morphed into the very monsters that we once condemned when it came to the actions of other nations.
http://www.politicalbase.com/
SPLAT! WOW! HOLY HISTORY BATMAN!
Naw, not childlike at all. Congrats on the improvement on your vocabulary.
I believe you missed the question, as you have missed so much in life, but to reprise, are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?
The bogus story used by the left that our actions in Abu Ghraib served as recruitment for Al Qaeda is no more than a talking point. Your article is dated 2008.
In 2005, "Al-Qaeda leaders have proclaimed Iraq a major front in their global terrorist campaign. This was made clear in a July 9, 2005, letter from Osama bin Ladens chief lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who was then leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq."
Iraq Is a Strategic Battleground in the War Against Terrorism
There is no proof that a "the major recruiting tool " was even necessary.
"A child is unaware of consequences." Exactly my point with respect to your inability to see the efficacy of enhanced interrogation. Our challenge is to prevent the evil ones from killing even one more of our citizens. Can't see that, huh?
That's why your left-wing heros like Church and Torricelli prevented our intell community from recruiting spys. "A child is unaware of consequences."
And, of course, the winner in the category of unintentional humor is ... you. Read this part of your quote carefully, not the method you learned in government schools, but carefully:
"It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, ..."
At least half... of a number that will never be known.????
You must be a Crypto-Conservative, because you make liberals look so bad. It's really not fair. Fun, but not fair.
The "bogus" story you refer to is prefaced: AN INTERROGATOR SPEAKS, written by an interrogator that said in an interview:
"I listened time and time again to foreign fighters, and Sunni Iraqis, state that the number one reason they had decided to pick up arms and join Al Qaeda was the abuses at Abu Ghraib and the authorized torture and abuse at Guantánamo Bay. My team of interrogators knew that we would become Al Qaedas best recruiters if we resorted to torture. Torture is counterproductive to keeping America safe and it doesnt matter if we do it or if we pass it off to another government. The result is the same. And morally, I believe, there is an even stronger argument. Torture is simply incompatible with American principles. George Washington and Abraham Lincoln both forbade their troops from torturing prisoners of war. They realized, as the recent bipartisan Senate report echoes, that this is about who we are. We cannot become our enemy in trying to defeat him.
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/12/hbc-90004036
Our challenge is to prevent the evil ones from killing even one more of our citizens. Can't see that, huh?
Even one of our citizens huh?
It's funny you mentioned Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who prefaced his beheading of American Nicholas Berg with these words: we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins...slaughtered in this way.
Thankfully Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is dead...guess WHO secured the information that allowed the military to pinpoint al Zarqawis whereabouts and kill him?
BTW, I see you dropped French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau like a hot potato...
At least half... of a number that will never be known.????
You only required even one so you're excused for forgetting what you just said a few paragraphs earlier.
I don't believe Lincoln or FDR were fascists...but fear can make even intelligent liberals make rash decisions...on rare occasions. BTW, In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership". About $1.6 billion in reparations were later disbursed by the U.S. government to surviving internees and their heirs.
wiki
You're not doing very well, I think you need to go back to the drawing board.
Did you note that the vast majority of the Harper's quote is conjecture, opinion?
Opinion.
And the major portion of your defense is quotes, directly or indirectly, from terrorists.
I hear an echo: ". Liberals, it seems, are unable to recognize evil, and therefore are psychologically unable to deal with it.We see this in our left-leaning friends ability to identify with the victimizer, but not the victim. We see it in the consoling of the drug abusing, law breaking criminal, but detachment from the recipient of their criminality."
And here you are, confident in your belief of the veracity of our enemies.
"Even one of our citizens.' What's the problem?
You know, the only reason that I succumb to answering any of your posts is that I so enjoy re-reading the parts that I post. So much would be wasted effort if I were writing for your edification, since you seem so, what, uneducable. Posting for/to you is double work, since I must then explain it to you.
For example, "I see you dropped French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau like a hot potato..."
The point of the quote, which, of course, was beyond your comprehension, was that Wilson didn't understand the nature of men anymore than you do.
Again, borrow a library card and see if you can get through Morris' "The Naked Ape." Enlightening.
So you favor the points I made re: Lincoln and FDR, yet state "......but fear can make even intelligent liberals make rash decisions..."
Consider the deficits in your logic, as the fact that you endorse their intelligence, and yet counter your statement by positing that they make rash decisions. You should work on your ability to communicate content.
And, of course, if you understood why I mentioned FDR and the Japanese, which was an attempt to protect the nation, you wouldn't have felt it necessary to state how we made amends. You see, the point is that we protect the nation, and then return to the more civil ways of life. I tire of having to explain everything to you.
"think you need to go back to the drawing board..." Did you think that writng an essay requires a drawing board? Are comic books the basis of your education, such as it is? Do you know what a mixed metaphor is? Government schooling again.
And just one note on your use of language: As William Faulkner said of Ernest Hemingway, "He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary."
You have much work to do.
