Khalid Sheik Mohammed: "I Gave A Lot Of False Information" To Make Torture Stop

[Nik]

I fully agree Shogun, McCain knows better than anyone how effective torture is, and he will tell you straight up that everyone breaks. Its very effective.

Will he also tell us that torture is EFFECTIVE and a useful method of collecting intel? Clearly, you didn't watch the video above since you don't seem to comprehend John's take on torture. Effective, my ass. What is EFFECTIVE about making you admit that you killed Sharon Tate under duress?

I think we are in agreement once again. There is nothing effective about making someone admit they murdered Sharon Tate. Why would anyone waste their time doing that when we already know who murdered her?

Instead of making random people admit things we know they didnt do, the better use of torture is to interrogate terrorists to find out what thier plans are.

And what if they don't have any plans? Think investigators are gonna believe that? And then they squeal and US investigators go off around the globe trying to find things that don't exist.

 

[Nik]

You mean the left wingers. You are so afraid that the world will see us as the bad guys if we use harsh interrogation techniques that you're willing to sacrifice innocent American lives in order to treat terrorists with the kid gloves you believe they deserve. What part of 'jihad' don't you understand?

You do know that the "world seeing us as bad guys" is problematic, right? Considering we have relations with most of the world and the more people who hate us, the more people who will try to fly planes into our buildings?

And when the nations of the world need help the most...the first country they go to is the "bad guys", so go drink some of that Kool-Aid. FYI...Most of the world doesn't see us as the "bad guys".

No, actually, increasingly they are going to other countries. In fact, for many years many of them went to Russia. And, as I posted, Anti-Americanism is rampant, or was during the Bush years.

 

[Godboy]

Clearly, you didn't watch the video above since you don't seem to comprehend John's take on torture.

I saw the video, and it shouldnt be any surprise that a man who was savagely tortured in the past, is agaionst torture now. Its understandable why he is biased, but it doesnt mean hes right either. He simply has an opinion just like everyone else.

 

[Nik]

You asked the question, and then answer it in the manner you would like it answered. Quite an advanced debating technique.

Bet your put-away is "so are you."

It's interrogation, not torture.

Here's torture. You get to watch the news on September eleventh, and see your brother or sister or wife or husband or father or mother make the decision between being burned to death or jumping to certain death.

Every day of your life you get to remember that sight. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

Everytime the phone rings you anticipate that loved one on the other end of the phone line. But then you remember.

Every day.

That's torture.

And if torture is required to save the life of even one honest, hard working human, than rather than worry about what a rationalizationist, like yourself, thinks about me, then hand me the car battery and jumper cable.

So you disagree with the Japanese who got convicted for torture after waterboarding Americans? Why don't you go and defend them, and speak out about their right to waterboard Americans and how its not torture?

If we, as Americans torture, what exactly gives us the right, other than naked self-interested preservation, to be outraged when people fly planes into our buildings? What wrong have they done, objectively, to try to destroy a nation that tortures? When you acquiese to torture, you give up your wrong to talk about the evils of others. If you acquiese to torture, YOU are evil, and hence when you talk about others being evil, you must include yourself in that.

Didn't the 'torture' of the bad guys take place after they flew those planes into the buildings? Harsh interrogation techniques are a means of self-defense for the U.S. Well, they were.

Self-defense doesn't justify anything and everything.

 

[Godboy]

Will he also tell us that torture is EFFECTIVE and a useful method of collecting intel? Clearly, you didn't watch the video above since you don't seem to comprehend John's take on torture. Effective, my ass. What is EFFECTIVE about making you admit that you killed Sharon Tate under duress?

I think we are in agreement once again. There is nothing effective about making someone admit they murdered Sharon Tate. Why would anyone waste their time doing that when we already know who murdered her?

Instead of making random people admit things we know they didnt do, the better use of torture is to interrogate terrorists to find out what thier plans are.

And what if they don't have any plans? Think investigators are gonna believe that? And then they squeal and US investigators go off around the globe trying to find things that don't exist.

You just dont understand how interrogators use already known intelligence in order to determine if someone is telling the truth or lying. You are simply ignorant.

Ive already spelled out how it works if you care to read the posts in this thread, or you can just pretend that torture doesnt work and you know more about its usefulness than the guys in the CIA who are master interrogators.

 

[Shogun]

I fully agree Shogun, McCain knows better than anyone how effective torture is, and he will tell you straight up that everyone breaks. Its very effective.

Will he also tell us that torture is EFFECTIVE and a useful method of collecting intel? Clearly, you didn't watch the video above since you don't seem to comprehend John's take on torture. Effective, my ass. What is EFFECTIVE about making you admit that you killed Sharon Tate under duress?

I think we are in agreement once again. There is nothing effective about making someone admit they murdered Sharon Tate. Why would anyone waste their time doing that when we already know who murdered her?

Instead of making random people admit things we know they didnt do, the better use of torture is to interrogate terrorists to find out what thier plans are.

ironically, i'm sure the ghost of Saddam Heusein would agree with you. Go ahead and keep being obtuse about how useless torture is while you readily admit that you could be brought to admit that you killed Sharon Tate. After all, if we didn't already have Charles Manson in jail and you were busy being waterboarded until you confessed to his murders i'm sure you'd take a different stand on the issue.

 

[Shogun]

Will he also tell us that torture is EFFECTIVE and a useful method of collecting intel?

When McCain was first captured, all he gave them was his name, rank and serial number. After they started torturing him, he told them anything they wanted to know, so he is very well aware that its effective for collecting intel. Everyone with half a brain knows that.

You might want to go ahead and scroll up to read Mccain's opinion on the subject, Uday.

 

[Nik]

I think we are in agreement once again. There is nothing effective about making someone admit they murdered Sharon Tate. Why would anyone waste their time doing that when we already know who murdered her?

Instead of making random people admit things we know they didnt do, the better use of torture is to interrogate terrorists to find out what thier plans are.

And what if they don't have any plans? Think investigators are gonna believe that? And then they squeal and US investigators go off around the globe trying to find things that don't exist.

You just dont understand how interrogators use already known intelligence in order to determine if someone is telling the truth or lying. You are simply ignorant.

Ive already spelled out how it works if you care to read the posts in this thread, or you can just pretend that torture doesnt work and you know more about its usefulness than the guys in the CIA who are master interrogators.

They can't always tell that, obviously. Which is how we've "prevented" all these threats that then seem to be a bunch of random idiots who never had the capability to do anything. I've read a lot on these issues, and I've read countless FBI accounts of how they do interrogations ALL THE TIME, and are actually pretty good at it. What the hell does the CIA know about interrogating people? Jack shit. They can't finesse, they can't use subtelty, they can't use mind games, because they suck at interrogation. So, they turned to torture.

Try doing some reading about these issues. Try reading Wrights book about 9/11, which is probably the best book out there on 9/11 and what happened. Try reading actual accounts of torture victims, and how they feel. Try reading accounts by the people whose research the CIA is using to support their torture policies. The guy who they took their info on sleep deprivation from basically declared it to be a bunch of bullshit.

 

[Shogun]

Clearly, you didn't watch the video above since you don't seem to comprehend John's take on torture.

I saw the video, and it shouldnt be any surprise that a man who was savagely tortured in the past, is agaionst torture now. Its understandable why he is biased, but it doesnt mean hes right either. He simply has an opinion just like everyone else.

HA! ooook.. so NOW his EXPERIENCE being tortured makes him BIASED!




whatever you say, Uday!

 

[PoliticalChic]

The SAME liberal bashing occurred in the 1920's in Europe...it led to fascism...

Translation...because liberals are NOT consumed and controlled by FEAR and because liberals don't believe people are basically EVIL; liberals need to LEARN how to BE consumed and controlled by FEAR and to SEE that people are basically EVIL...

Let me help you out. Which way did you come in? Oh, that was too simple.

But it's the childllike simplicity of your rant, complete with cap letters, that leads one to use those silly one-liners. Bet you'd rather be posting with big fat crayons.

There is no liberal bashing here, but of course, liberals see any criticism as 'bashing.' Didn't you see my reference to liberals as our brethren?

No, it was a history lesson. Are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?

Now, pay attention, this is not government school: you're actually meant to learn something. Conservatives recognize the threat, confront evil in an efficacious manner, in this case enhanced interrogation, and thus defeat it.

We are "NOT consumed and controlled by FEAR ," we recognize that some people are evil, and need to be treated differently than those who are, like yoursef, misguided, or good folks, who should be protected.

Here you have exemplified an important flaw in liberals:
"A Liberals axiom is that harmony is natural, a misreading of human nature. It should be remembered that when Woodrow Wilson asked Georges Clemenceau, prime minister of France, “Don’t you believe that all men are brothers,” Clemenceau replied “Yes- Cain and Abel.” The result of this belief is that country’s defenses are lowered by liberals, as represented by the Church Committee hearings, the Pike committee, the Torricelli Amendments, all of which tied the hands of the intelligence community, and made it necessary for the Bush Administration to use enhanced interrogation methods. And, of course, the liberal community raged that we were not treating terrorists like our brothers. To gain an understanding of human nature, consider reading The Naked Ape, by DesmondMorris. "

Did you read carefully?
Good, now fold your paper, number one to five, and no erasing and no crossing out. Good luck. If you pass, we may be able to move you out of the remedial,er, liberal class.

That's the history lesson?

Childlike? A child is unaware of consequences. That's why they can't cross the street until they are aware that cars are dangerous...

And, you just stepped in front of a speeding semi...SPLAT!!!

Torture and abuse by Americans at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo led directly to a large increase in American casualties in Iraq and has been the major recruiting tool of al Qaeda...Bush turned hundreds of terrorists into thousands...

Says WHO? Someone that was there, and interrogated prisoners in Iraq...

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802242.html

Then, you use Georges Clemenceau to drive home your point...WOW!

French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau was a major voice behind the Treaty of Versailles. It was Clemenceau and France that were much more aggressive and demanded the treaty be punitive. The result of HIS beliefs led to Nazi Germany and World War II...

SPLAT!!!

SPLAT! WOW! HOLY HISTORY BATMAN!

Naw, not childlike at all. Congrats on the improvement on your vocabulary.

I believe you missed the question, as you have missed so much in life, but to reprise, are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?

The bogus story used by the left that our actions in Abu Ghraib served as recruitment for Al Qaeda is no more than a talking point. Your article is dated 2008.

In 2005, "Al-Qaeda leaders have proclaimed Iraq a major front in their global terrorist campaign. This was made clear in a July 9, 2005, letter from Osama bin Laden’s chief lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who was then leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq."
Iraq Is a Strategic Battleground in the War Against Terrorism

There is no proof that a "the major recruiting tool " was even necessary.

"A child is unaware of consequences." Exactly my point with respect to your inability to see the efficacy of enhanced interrogation. Our challenge is to prevent the evil ones from killing even one more of our citizens. Can't see that, huh?

That's why your left-wing heros like Church and Torricelli prevented our intell community from recruiting spys. "A child is unaware of consequences."

And, of course, the winner in the category of unintentional humor is ... you. Read this part of your quote carefully, not the method you learned in government schools, but carefully:
"It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, ..."

At least half... of a number that will never be known.????

You must be a Crypto-Conservative, because you make liberals look so bad. It's really not fair. Fun, but not fair.

 

[Godboy]

Will he also tell us that torture is EFFECTIVE and a useful method of collecting intel? Clearly, you didn't watch the video above since you don't seem to comprehend John's take on torture. Effective, my ass. What is EFFECTIVE about making you admit that you killed Sharon Tate under duress?

I think we are in agreement once again. There is nothing effective about making someone admit they murdered Sharon Tate. Why would anyone waste their time doing that when we already know who murdered her?

Instead of making random people admit things we know they didnt do, the better use of torture is to interrogate terrorists to find out what thier plans are.

ironically, i'm sure the ghost of Saddam Heusein would agree with you. Go ahead and keep being obtuse about how useless torture is while you readily admit that you could be brought to admit that you killed Sharon Tate. After all, if we didn't already have Charles Manson in jail and you were busy being waterboarded until you confessed to his murders i'm sure you'd take a different stand on the issue.

Who ever said we should be torturing simple murder suspects?

 

[Meister]

You do know that the "world seeing us as bad guys" is problematic, right? Considering we have relations with most of the world and the more people who hate us, the more people who will try to fly planes into our buildings?

And when the nations of the world need help the most...the first country they go to is the "bad guys", so go drink some of that Kool-Aid. FYI...Most of the world doesn't see us as the "bad guys".

No, actually, increasingly they are going to other countries. In fact, for many years many of them went to Russia. And, as I posted, Anti-Americanism is rampant, or was during the Bush years.

Bullshit!!! The ones that went to Russia were like North Korea, Venezuela? Wow! That's is just a spin...keep trying though.

 

[Nik]

And when the nations of the world need help the most...the first country they go to is the "bad guys", so go drink some of that Kool-Aid. FYI...Most of the world doesn't see us as the "bad guys".

No, actually, increasingly they are going to other countries. In fact, for many years many of them went to Russia. And, as I posted, Anti-Americanism is rampant, or was during the Bush years.

Bullshit!!! The ones that went to Russia were like North Korea, Venezuela? Wow! That's is just a spin...keep trying though.

Umm, no. Ever heard of a little state called the USSR? Ever heard of Iran? Ever heard of Cuba? Ever heard of Guatemala? The Phillipines? Hungary? Etc, etc.

 

[Godboy]

No, actually, increasingly they are going to other countries. In fact, for many years many of them went to Russia. And, as I posted, Anti-Americanism is rampant, or was during the Bush years.

Bullshit!!! The ones that went to Russia were like North Korea, Venezuela? Wow! That's is just a spin...keep trying though.

Umm, no. Ever heard of a little state called the USSR? Ever heard of Iran? Ever heard of Cuba? Ever heard of Guatemala? The Phillipines? Hungary? Etc, etc.

Oh, you mean shit countries. They can have those guys.

 

[Nik]

Let me help you out. Which way did you come in? Oh, that was too simple.

But it's the childllike simplicity of your rant, complete with cap letters, that leads one to use those silly one-liners. Bet you'd rather be posting with big fat crayons.

There is no liberal bashing here, but of course, liberals see any criticism as 'bashing.' Didn't you see my reference to liberals as our brethren?

No, it was a history lesson. Are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?

Now, pay attention, this is not government school: you're actually meant to learn something. Conservatives recognize the threat, confront evil in an efficacious manner, in this case enhanced interrogation, and thus defeat it.

We are "NOT consumed and controlled by FEAR ," we recognize that some people are evil, and need to be treated differently than those who are, like yoursef, misguided, or good folks, who should be protected.

Here you have exemplified an important flaw in liberals:
"A Liberals axiom is that harmony is natural, a misreading of human nature. It should be remembered that when Woodrow Wilson asked Georges Clemenceau, prime minister of France, “Don’t you believe that all men are brothers,” Clemenceau replied “Yes- Cain and Abel.” The result of this belief is that country’s defenses are lowered by liberals, as represented by the Church Committee hearings, the Pike committee, the Torricelli Amendments, all of which tied the hands of the intelligence community, and made it necessary for the Bush Administration to use enhanced interrogation methods. And, of course, the liberal community raged that we were not treating terrorists like our brothers. To gain an understanding of human nature, consider reading The Naked Ape, by DesmondMorris. "

Did you read carefully?
Good, now fold your paper, number one to five, and no erasing and no crossing out. Good luck. If you pass, we may be able to move you out of the remedial,er, liberal class.

That's the history lesson?

Childlike? A child is unaware of consequences. That's why they can't cross the street until they are aware that cars are dangerous...

And, you just stepped in front of a speeding semi...SPLAT!!!

Torture and abuse by Americans at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo led directly to a large increase in American casualties in Iraq and has been the major recruiting tool of al Qaeda...Bush turned hundreds of terrorists into thousands...

Says WHO? Someone that was there, and interrogated prisoners in Iraq...

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802242.html

Then, you use Georges Clemenceau to drive home your point...WOW!

French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau was a major voice behind the Treaty of Versailles. It was Clemenceau and France that were much more aggressive and demanded the treaty be punitive. The result of HIS beliefs led to Nazi Germany and World War II...

SPLAT!!!

SPLAT! WOW! HOLY HISTORY BATMAN!

Naw, not childlike at all. Congrats on the improvement on your vocabulary.

I believe you missed the question, as you have missed so much in life, but to reprise, are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?

The bogus story used by the left that our actions in Abu Ghraib served as recruitment for Al Qaeda is no more than a talking point. Your article is dated 2008.

In 2005, "Al-Qaeda leaders have proclaimed Iraq a major front in their global terrorist campaign. This was made clear in a July 9, 2005, letter from Osama bin Laden’s chief lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who was then leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq."
Iraq Is a Strategic Battleground in the War Against Terrorism

There is no proof that a "the major recruiting tool " was even necessary.

"A child is unaware of consequences." Exactly my point with respect to your inability to see the efficacy of enhanced interrogation. Our challenge is to prevent the evil ones from killing even one more of our citizens. Can't see that, huh?

That's why your left-wing heros like Church and Torricelli prevented our intell community from recruiting spys. "A child is unaware of consequences."

And, of course, the winner in the category of unintentional humor is ... you. Read this part of your quote carefully, not the method you learned in government schools, but carefully:
"It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, ..."

At least half... of a number that will never be known.????

You must be a Crypto-Conservative, because you make liberals look so bad. It's really not fair. Fun, but not fair.

Umm, actually LOTS of officials have said the best thing to ever happen to AQ was Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Oh, and learn the definition for the word "definitive".

 

[Nik]

Bullshit!!! The ones that went to Russia were like North Korea, Venezuela? Wow! That's is just a spin...keep trying though.

Umm, no. Ever heard of a little state called the USSR? Ever heard of Iran? Ever heard of Cuba? Ever heard of Guatemala? The Phillipines? Hungary? Etc, etc.

Oh, you mean shit countries. They can have those guys.

Umm, considering 19 guys from a "shit country" massacred 3,000 Americans, that type of attitude is really fucking stupid. Its a globalized world now, dismissing hundreds of millions of people as being from a "shit country" is idiotic.

 

[Godboy]

That's the history lesson?

Childlike? A child is unaware of consequences. That's why they can't cross the street until they are aware that cars are dangerous...

And, you just stepped in front of a speeding semi...SPLAT!!!

Torture and abuse by Americans at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo led directly to a large increase in American casualties in Iraq and has been the major recruiting tool of al Qaeda...Bush turned hundreds of terrorists into thousands...

Says WHO? Someone that was there, and interrogated prisoners in Iraq...

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802242.html

Then, you use Georges Clemenceau to drive home your point...WOW!

French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau was a major voice behind the Treaty of Versailles. It was Clemenceau and France that were much more aggressive and demanded the treaty be punitive. The result of HIS beliefs led to Nazi Germany and World War II...

SPLAT!!!

SPLAT! WOW! HOLY HISTORY BATMAN!

Naw, not childlike at all. Congrats on the improvement on your vocabulary.

I believe you missed the question, as you have missed so much in life, but to reprise, are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?

The bogus story used by the left that our actions in Abu Ghraib served as recruitment for Al Qaeda is no more than a talking point. Your article is dated 2008.

In 2005, "Al-Qaeda leaders have proclaimed Iraq a major front in their global terrorist campaign. This was made clear in a July 9, 2005, letter from Osama bin Laden’s chief lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who was then leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq."
Iraq Is a Strategic Battleground in the War Against Terrorism

There is no proof that a "the major recruiting tool " was even necessary.

"A child is unaware of consequences." Exactly my point with respect to your inability to see the efficacy of enhanced interrogation. Our challenge is to prevent the evil ones from killing even one more of our citizens. Can't see that, huh?

That's why your left-wing heros like Church and Torricelli prevented our intell community from recruiting spys. "A child is unaware of consequences."

And, of course, the winner in the category of unintentional humor is ... you. Read this part of your quote carefully, not the method you learned in government schools, but carefully:
"It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, ..."

At least half... of a number that will never be known.????

You must be a Crypto-Conservative, because you make liberals look so bad. It's really not fair. Fun, but not fair.

Umm, actually LOTS of officials have said the best thing to ever happen to AQ was Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Oh, and learn the definition for the word "definitive".

In a world full of people, you will hear all kinds of different opinions, many of them based on ignorance. The fact is, torture works very well when used properly.

 

[Meister]

No, actually, increasingly they are going to other countries. In fact, for many years many of them went to Russia. And, as I posted, Anti-Americanism is rampant, or was during the Bush years.

Bullshit!!! The ones that went to Russia were like North Korea, Venezuela? Wow! That's is just a spin...keep trying though.

Umm, no. Ever heard of a little state called the USSR? Ever heard of Iran? Ever heard of Cuba? Ever heard of Guatemala? The Phillipines? Hungary? Etc, etc.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Iran and Cuba.
Guatamala and the drugs...now that makes sense too

 

[Godboy]

Umm, no. Ever heard of a little state called the USSR? Ever heard of Iran? Ever heard of Cuba? Ever heard of Guatemala? The Phillipines? Hungary? Etc, etc.

Oh, you mean shit countries. They can have those guys.

Umm, considering 19 guys from a "shit country" massacred 3,000 Americans, that type of attitude is really fucking stupid. Its a globalized world now, dismissing hundreds of millions of people as being from a "shit country" is idiotic.

You realize that the countries you are talking about use torture themselves, only far more, and they go way beyond simple water boarding. Go watch the video of the Prince of Saudi Arabia. Should we be trying to win over guys like him?

 

[Nik]

SPLAT! WOW! HOLY HISTORY BATMAN!

Naw, not childlike at all. Congrats on the improvement on your vocabulary.

I believe you missed the question, as you have missed so much in life, but to reprise, are you going to claim that Lincoln and FDR are fascists?

The bogus story used by the left that our actions in Abu Ghraib served as recruitment for Al Qaeda is no more than a talking point. Your article is dated 2008.

In 2005, "Al-Qaeda leaders have proclaimed Iraq a major front in their global terrorist campaign. This was made clear in a July 9, 2005, letter from Osama bin Laden’s chief lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who was then leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq."
Iraq Is a Strategic Battleground in the War Against Terrorism

There is no proof that a "the major recruiting tool " was even necessary.

"A child is unaware of consequences." Exactly my point with respect to your inability to see the efficacy of enhanced interrogation. Our challenge is to prevent the evil ones from killing even one more of our citizens. Can't see that, huh?

That's why your left-wing heros like Church and Torricelli prevented our intell community from recruiting spys. "A child is unaware of consequences."

And, of course, the winner in the category of unintentional humor is ... you. Read this part of your quote carefully, not the method you learned in government schools, but carefully:
"It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, ..."

At least half... of a number that will never be known.????

You must be a Crypto-Conservative, because you make liberals look so bad. It's really not fair. Fun, but not fair.

Umm, actually LOTS of officials have said the best thing to ever happen to AQ was Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Oh, and learn the definition for the word "definitive".

In a world full of people, you will hear all kinds of different opinions, many of them based on ignorance. The fact is, torture works very well when used properly.

Right, and of course you know that all the FBI counter-terrorism officials who say that GITMO and Abu Ghraib helped AQ are "ignorant", and the ones who say that torture works are knowledgable