Keystone Pipeline Benefits?

[BULLDOG]

There's nothing dangerous in this - but they exaggerated the benefit so much, it was just too easy for opponents to pick apart their lies.

I can't help but note the irony here. Obamacare was oversold in the same manner, and elicited the same response from the American public. But oh, it was imperative that it be passed...you know, for the sake of uninsured Americans everywhere. The bill was so oversold, people began to see its flaws, even before it was passed by a Democratic supermajority. So you see, liberals know a lot about how to oversell, in their case however, no amount of resistance would have stopped the passage of that law. And that makes you and your party duplicitous in nature.

This is nothing more than a partisan pissing match over a largely inconsequential project.

"Largely inconsequential." I hope you're joking. Let that sink in for a moment. In my previous example, for example, in one case a healthcare law was touted as a major step and highly important. However, when it comes to things like this pipeline, it is 'largely inconsequential.' Funny, your wind sails and solar panels were supposed to engineer our energy independence by getting rid of oil as an energy source altogether; the next great thing.

But gas, as it is now, is at levels I haven't seen since I was in my freshman year at high school. If that pipeline is ever to be built, we will see prices approaching levels that haven't been seen since my Grandmother was MY age. You can bank on it. As long as there is oil, there is gas and as long as they are affordable, alternative energy will not. And as a result, you could say they will remain "largely inconsequential!"

Fuel prices can not and will not drop more than a few pennies below what they already have. That line has nothing to do with our price of gas anyway. It will all be sold overseas on the global market.

Prove it will all be sold overseas. Which refinery has claimed this?

Keystone is just a pipeline that transports Canadian crude and American domestic crude.

What your refineries do with the finished product has absolutely nothing to do with Keystone. How many times do you have to be told that the crude is coming to the Gulf by the Keystone line that is finished, by rail and transport?

You're not stopping the crude from coming to the Gulf or other refineries.

With our decreased demand here in the US., refineries already export 60% of refined products. We don't import any appreciable amounts of refined products, so the remaining 40% already takes care of our needs. Can you give a single reason why refineries would sell the increased production from XL here instead of taking advantage of their free trade zone designation, with it's substantial tax savings, and sell it overseas?

XL isn't a producer. It's just the proposed additional northern leg of a pipeline.

Keystone is not an oil producer. Just a pipeline. If US refineries want to make money exporting refined products it would have nothing to do with XL. Nothing at all.

Just a pipeline.

So you think XL just picked out a destination without extensive communication with the refiners? That's dumber than I gave you credit for.

 

[BULLDOG]

However, it doesn't necessarily have an effect on the price of refined products.

It does. The pipeline is a pipeline. It has no refinement capacity on its own. You can't shoot someone with a bullet that's still in the box, now can you? The way it is refined and transported make all the difference.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but you didn't make it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We're talking about this particular line. You know.......the only one republicans made into a national question by making so many outrageous claims about, and all those claims were lies?

yeah tinyd, we're talking about tar sands here

So what? You have fields in California with heavier crude.

we aren't strip mining pristine boreal tundra tinydancer

http://www.nrdc.org/energy/files/keystonexlmyths.pdf

Open-pit mining lays waste to millions of acres of carbon-
storing Boreal forest. The Canadian Boreal forest is one of
the world’s largest storehouses of carbon. To produce just
one barrel of oil, these trees are felled, and tons of earth are
scooped up by massive backhoes. The oil-laden soil is then
loaded into trucks the size of houses and carted off to an
extraction plant for initial processing

It takes a lot of energy to run a modern society.
More than we can produce with unreliable wind and solar.
If the warmers were telling the truth about the dangers of too much CO2, they'd be pushing for
new nuclear reactors to power new fleets of electric vehicles.
But I guess they prefer melting icecaps to nukes.

It takes a lot of energy to run a modern society.

If the H. of Rep. appropriated funds to build solar collectors on every public building and open land in the sun belt, funded an effort to build wind geneators in the wind belts, and gave tax credits to establish solar collectors on all new roofs built in our nation; fund public transportation, inter and intra the urban areas of our nation and built bullet trains to transport the goods of our nation from coast to coast and Canada to the Gulf, and rebuilt the electrical grid, we might become solve much of our problems by creating jobs and using home grown energy.

But big coal and big oil don't give a damn about anything of the sort. Ask those meeting with the Brothers Koch in Palm Springs.

If the H. of Rep. appropriated funds to build solar collectors on every public building and open land in the sun belt, funded an effort to build wind geneators in the wind belts, and gave tax credits to establish solar collectors on all new roofs built in our nation;

Then we'd have wasted hundreds of billions more on unreliable green energy.

 

[tinydancer]

I can't help but note the irony here. Obamacare was oversold in the same manner, and elicited the same response from the American public. But oh, it was imperative that it be passed...you know, for the sake of uninsured Americans everywhere. The bill was so oversold, people began to see its flaws, even before it was passed by a Democratic supermajority. So you see, liberals know a lot about how to oversell, in their case however, no amount of resistance would have stopped the passage of that law. And that makes you and your party duplicitous in nature.

"Largely inconsequential." I hope you're joking. Let that sink in for a moment. In my previous example, for example, in one case a healthcare law was touted as a major step and highly important. However, when it comes to things like this pipeline, it is 'largely inconsequential.' Funny, your wind sails and solar panels were supposed to engineer our energy independence by getting rid of oil as an energy source altogether; the next great thing.

But gas, as it is now, is at levels I haven't seen since I was in my freshman year at high school. If that pipeline is ever to be built, we will see prices approaching levels that haven't been seen since my Grandmother was MY age. You can bank on it. As long as there is oil, there is gas and as long as they are affordable, alternative energy will not. And as a result, you could say they will remain "largely inconsequential!"

Fuel prices can not and will not drop more than a few pennies below what they already have. That line has nothing to do with our price of gas anyway. It will all be sold overseas on the global market.

Prove it will all be sold overseas. Which refinery has claimed this?

Keystone is just a pipeline that transports Canadian crude and American domestic crude.

What your refineries do with the finished product has absolutely nothing to do with Keystone. How many times do you have to be told that the crude is coming to the Gulf by the Keystone line that is finished, by rail and transport?

You're not stopping the crude from coming to the Gulf or other refineries.

With our decreased demand here in the US., refineries already export 60% of refined products. We don't import any appreciable amounts of refined products, so the remaining 40% already takes care of our needs. Can you give a single reason why refineries would sell the increased production from XL here instead of taking advantage of their free trade zone designation, with it's substantial tax savings, and sell it overseas?

XL isn't a producer. It's just the proposed additional northern leg of a pipeline.

Keystone is not an oil producer. Just a pipeline. If US refineries want to make money exporting refined products it would have nothing to do with XL. Nothing at all.

Just a pipeline.

So you think XL just picked out a destination without extensive communication with the refiners? That's dumber than I gave you credit for.

WTF? XL is the secondary Northern leg of the Keystone. Keystone I, II, III and IIIb) were all researched. Keystone III the southern leg had been proposed right from the get go. Of course they knew what routes they were proposing.

They are just a delivery system for crying out loud. Trans Canada has no say whatsoever in who the refineries sell their finished product to.

 

[BULLDOG]

Fuel prices can not and will not drop more than a few pennies below what they already have. That line has nothing to do with our price of gas anyway. It will all be sold overseas on the global market.

Prove it will all be sold overseas. Which refinery has claimed this?

Keystone is just a pipeline that transports Canadian crude and American domestic crude.

What your refineries do with the finished product has absolutely nothing to do with Keystone. How many times do you have to be told that the crude is coming to the Gulf by the Keystone line that is finished, by rail and transport?

You're not stopping the crude from coming to the Gulf or other refineries.

With our decreased demand here in the US., refineries already export 60% of refined products. We don't import any appreciable amounts of refined products, so the remaining 40% already takes care of our needs. Can you give a single reason why refineries would sell the increased production from XL here instead of taking advantage of their free trade zone designation, with it's substantial tax savings, and sell it overseas?

XL isn't a producer. It's just the proposed additional northern leg of a pipeline.

Keystone is not an oil producer. Just a pipeline. If US refineries want to make money exporting refined products it would have nothing to do with XL. Nothing at all.

Just a pipeline.

So you think XL just picked out a destination without extensive communication with the refiners? That's dumber than I gave you credit for.

WTF? XL is the secondary Northern leg of the Keystone. Keystone I, II, III and IIIb) were all researched. Keystone III the southern leg had been proposed right from the get go. Of course they knew what routes they were proposing.

They are just a delivery system for crying out loud. Trans Canada has no say whatsoever in who the refineries sell their finished product to.

Even if what you say were true, how does that justify us assuming the liability of another potentiallly leaking pipeline when our country gets noting out f it?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, by the way, I'd appreciate you not trying to steal parts of my avatar.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Prove it will all be sold overseas. Which refinery has claimed this?

Keystone is just a pipeline that transports Canadian crude and American domestic crude.

What your refineries do with the finished product has absolutely nothing to do with Keystone. How many times do you have to be told that the crude is coming to the Gulf by the Keystone line that is finished, by rail and transport?

You're not stopping the crude from coming to the Gulf or other refineries.

With our decreased demand here in the US., refineries already export 60% of refined products. We don't import any appreciable amounts of refined products, so the remaining 40% already takes care of our needs. Can you give a single reason why refineries would sell the increased production from XL here instead of taking advantage of their free trade zone designation, with it's substantial tax savings, and sell it overseas?

XL isn't a producer. It's just the proposed additional northern leg of a pipeline.

Keystone is not an oil producer. Just a pipeline. If US refineries want to make money exporting refined products it would have nothing to do with XL. Nothing at all.

Just a pipeline.

So you think XL just picked out a destination without extensive communication with the refiners? That's dumber than I gave you credit for.

WTF? XL is the secondary Northern leg of the Keystone. Keystone I, II, III and IIIb) were all researched. Keystone III the southern leg had been proposed right from the get go. Of course they knew what routes they were proposing.

They are just a delivery system for crying out loud. Trans Canada has no say whatsoever in who the refineries sell their finished product to.

Even if what you say were true, how does that justify us assuming the liability of another potentiallly leaking pipeline when our country gets noting out f it?

Theres nothing left but your fear mongering. The State Department has said time and again there will be no environmental impact. None. Can you not read or understand English?

 

[tinydancer]

With our decreased demand here in the US., refineries already export 60% of refined products. We don't import any appreciable amounts of refined products, so the remaining 40% already takes care of our needs. Can you give a single reason why refineries would sell the increased production from XL here instead of taking advantage of their free trade zone designation, with it's substantial tax savings, and sell it overseas?

XL isn't a producer. It's just the proposed additional northern leg of a pipeline.

Keystone is not an oil producer. Just a pipeline. If US refineries want to make money exporting refined products it would have nothing to do with XL. Nothing at all.

Just a pipeline.

So you think XL just picked out a destination without extensive communication with the refiners? That's dumber than I gave you credit for.

WTF? XL is the secondary Northern leg of the Keystone. Keystone I, II, III and IIIb) were all researched. Keystone III the southern leg had been proposed right from the get go. Of course they knew what routes they were proposing.

They are just a delivery system for crying out loud. Trans Canada has no say whatsoever in who the refineries sell their finished product to.

Even if what you say were true, how does that justify us assuming the liability of another potentiallly leaking pipeline when our country gets noting out f it?

Theres nothing left but your fear mongering. The State Department has said time and again there will be no environmental impact. None. Can you not read or understand English?

It's a complete dog and pony show. But one has to remember how much money has been at stake for the liberals.

Steyer alone put up 80 million for Democrats in the mid terms. He owns many souls in that party and they are counting on more money from him for 2016.

 

[BULLDOG]

Oh, by the way, I'd appreciate you not trying to steal parts of my avatar.

I stole the whole damn thing you dummy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, by the way, I'd appreciate you not trying to steal parts of my avatar.

I stole the whole damn thing you dummy.

Get your own.

Was that some sort of attempt to get a rise out of me? Well it worked, you thievish little troll. Stop stealing other people's avatars.

 

[BULLDOG]

Oh, by the way, I'd appreciate you not trying to steal parts of my avatar.

I stole the whole damn thing you dummy.

Get your own.

Was that some sort of attempt to get a rise out of me? Well it worked, you thievish little troll. Stop stealing other people's avatars.

I don't try to tell you which avatar to use, so mind your own business.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, by the way, I'd appreciate you not trying to steal parts of my avatar.

I stole the whole damn thing you dummy.

Get your own.

Was that some sort of attempt to get a rise out of me? Well it worked, you thievish little troll. Stop stealing other people's avatars.

I don't try to tell you which avatar to use, so mind your own business.

Nope. You stole my avatar and even admitted it. Take it down, thief.

 

[BULLDOG]

Oh, by the way, I'd appreciate you not trying to steal parts of my avatar.

I stole the whole damn thing you dummy.

Get your own.

Was that some sort of attempt to get a rise out of me? Well it worked, you thievish little troll. Stop stealing other people's avatars.

I don't try to tell you which avatar to use, so mind your own business.

Nope. You stole my avatar and even admitted it. Take it down, thief.

You got a copyright?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, by the way, I'd appreciate you not trying to steal parts of my avatar.

I stole the whole damn thing you dummy.

Get your own.

Was that some sort of attempt to get a rise out of me? Well it worked, you thievish little troll. Stop stealing other people's avatars.

I don't try to tell you which avatar to use, so mind your own business.

Nope. You stole my avatar and even admitted it. Take it down, thief.

You got a copyright?

In fact you are parodying me, and are thus impersonating me in the process. And yes, I claim ownership of this avatar as I used it first.

Is this what liberals like you do? Be copycats and doppelgangers? This probably happened because I destroyed you a few minutes ago regarding the topic of this thread. You have yet to reply to my statement about the findings of the State Department.

And, I doubt you'd like being impersonated or having something unique to you stolen and duplicated either.

Take it down.

 

[BULLDOG]

I stole the whole damn thing you dummy.

Get your own.

Was that some sort of attempt to get a rise out of me? Well it worked, you thievish little troll. Stop stealing other people's avatars.

I don't try to tell you which avatar to use, so mind your own business.

Nope. You stole my avatar and even admitted it. Take it down, thief.

You got a copyright?

In fact you are parodying me, and are thus impersonating me in the process. And yes, I claim ownership of this avatar as I used it first.

Is this what liberals like you do? Be copycats and doppelgangers? This probably happened because I destroyed you a few minutes ago regarding the topic of this thread. You have yet to reply to my statement about the findings of the State Department.

And, I doubt you'd like being impersonated or having something unique to you stolen and duplicated either.

Take it down.

Did you personally draw that avatar, or did you download it the same way every other person in the world does? Present your proof of exclusive rights, and I will be happy to comply. Until then fuck off.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Get your own.

Was that some sort of attempt to get a rise out of me? Well it worked, you thievish little troll. Stop stealing other people's avatars.

I don't try to tell you which avatar to use, so mind your own business.

Nope. You stole my avatar and even admitted it. Take it down, thief.

You got a copyright?

In fact you are parodying me, and are thus impersonating me in the process. And yes, I claim ownership of this avatar as I used it first.

Is this what liberals like you do? Be copycats and doppelgangers? This probably happened because I destroyed you a few minutes ago regarding the topic of this thread. You have yet to reply to my statement about the findings of the State Department.

And, I doubt you'd like being impersonated or having something unique to you stolen and duplicated either.

Take it down.

Did you personally draw that avatar, or did you download it the same way every other person in the world does? Present your proof of exclusive rights, and I will be happy to comply. Until then fuck off.

I claim rights to the avatar because I am the one currently using the avatar, I was the first to use it. You can't just take my avatar, this isn't Kinko's and you aren't a damned copy machine. What if someone went around copying you? Really? Think about it.

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't try to tell you which avatar to use, so mind your own business.

Nope. You stole my avatar and even admitted it. Take it down, thief.

You got a copyright?

In fact you are parodying me, and are thus impersonating me in the process. And yes, I claim ownership of this avatar as I used it first.

Is this what liberals like you do? Be copycats and doppelgangers? This probably happened because I destroyed you a few minutes ago regarding the topic of this thread. You have yet to reply to my statement about the findings of the State Department.

And, I doubt you'd like being impersonated or having something unique to you stolen and duplicated either.

Take it down.

Did you personally draw that avatar, or did you download it the same way every other person in the world does? Present your proof of exclusive rights, and I will be happy to comply. Until then fuck off.

I claim rights to the avatar because I am the one currently using the avatar, I was the first to use it. You can't just take my avatar, this isn't Kinko's and you aren't a damned copy machine. What if someone went around copying you? Really? Think about it.

I claim rights to the Brookland bridge, because I think it's cool. My avatar isn't even blue. Go bother someone else.

 

[danielpalos]

For those that might be swayed with the enviro whackos lie that the Keystone Pipeline will destroy the Ogallala Aquifer you might want to see just how many pipelines exist across the Ogallala.

Then you have to ask yourself "where the fuck were all these hug mother earthers when all the others were built"?

This is strictly bullshit political theater for the White House, the Democrat Party and the lunatics who think that they can actually shut down the oil sands in Alberta.

Freaking maniacs. Because that is the penultimate goal of the activists. To shut down the oil sands.

Proposed pipeline route for XL. I think this is the most up to date route. If someone has a more recent one feel free to jump in and post it.

Not at all; some on the left believe we should be advancing fusion (an energy with a future so bright, everyone has to wear shades), over any fossil fuels.

 

[BluesLegend]

Keystone XL pipeline

Wow, thank you.

Sadly the willfully ignorant and those whose brains have already been washed by Big Oil, and the few others Keystone XL will benefit, will continue to make Keystone XL a mission; a mission no different than those who scream Benghazi, Solyndra, Death Panels and the dozens of hysterical outrages posted since Obama was nominated and later elected President of the United States.

Oh piss off. You need to get up to speed. The Keystone is complete. Crude is flowing.

XL is just the northern leg that would also pick up crude from the Bakkens in Montana and North Dakota.

This is complete and utter bullshit that Canada needs to ship oil to the Gulf to ship to other countries.

Seriously how geographically retarded are you left wingers? We have both east and west big blue things called FUCKING OCEANS on either coast.

You know. Called the Pacific and the Atlantic.

Is the fuel produced from tar sands a pollutant? Does it do more or less harm to the environment then other forms of crude oil. Are the battery's in hybrid cars a greater pollutant today than the refinement of tar sands? Are solar, wind and hydroelectric cleaner sources of energy than tar sands. And, why are you so cock sure that tar sands are better than renewable and green sources of energy? Do you have a personal stake in the building of the pipeline? Do the people whose water source is at risk have any say in the matter, or do you want them to piss off too?

Liberal cities dump raw sewage into public waterways, pollute the sky for miles around, and generate unimaginable tons of garbage destined for land fills...I think you libs have bigger problems to solve.

You think? I doubt it. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Post some evidence of liberal cities vis a vis cities you consider not liberal.

^^^ classic liberal response, stunned by their own ignorance and hypocrisy they choose denial.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It takes a lot of energy to run a modern society.

If the H. of Rep. appropriated funds to build solar collectors on every public building and open land in the sun belt, funded an effort to build wind geneators in the wind belts, and gave tax credits to establish solar collectors on all new roofs built in our nation; fund public transportation, inter and intra the urban areas of our nation and built bullet trains to transport the goods of our nation from coast to coast and Canada to the Gulf, and rebuilt the electrical grid, we might become solve much of our problems by creating jobs and using home grown energy.

But big coal and big oil don't give a damn about anything of the sort. Ask those meeting with the Brothers Koch in Palm Springs.

What I find the most disappointing is that I have been hearing politicians from both sides of the aisle pay lip service on a commitment to renewables since the 70's. I used to subscribe to the Whole Earth Catalogue when I was really young . I go back that far.

They have yapped about it for decades. And I can't think of one country that has pulled off renewables successfully. You would not believe how badly the Liberal government in Ontario has screwed up their "new energy" programs. It's a nightmare. And because they were so busy lining the pockets of friends and family with subsidizing different ventures they've lost the trust of the public along with billions of dollars of taxpayer dollars.

Britain's failures are becoming legendary. Germany hasn't been able to pull it off either.

I find it outrageous that especially with the technology we have today someone out there couldn't come up with a comprehensive plan to be able to utilize fossil fuels produced as environmentally clean as possible in conjunction with renewables.

Politicians sadly will not be the ones to help us move forward.

I could go on but it's for a different thread in a different forum.

The public was/is influenced by propaganda produced by the special interests (Big Oil, Big Coal in this case) and for months hysteria over Solyndra was packaged as a failure of the industry, not simply one entity, with allegations that friends of the President took the money and ran.

I don't know about other parts of our country, or our friends to the north, but solar and wind energy production is obvious throughout the San Francisco Bay Area.
In the county where I live and worked, the Country Jail, sheriff and probation departments had solar panels placed on their roof as early as 2002; in my neighborhood, on the court where we live, three homes have had solar panels installed on their roofs in the last year. Homes with pools have had water heated by the sun for decades here and Hybrid cars are ubiquitous in the Bay Area; lights, emergency call phones and signage is lighted by solar energy collected during the day on freeways too.

Windmills have been built on and around the passes which bring the winds from the Pacific Ocean to the interior, and charging stations for electric cars are becoming common sites at malls and in office building parking lots.

Those who denigrate such efforts have been brainwashed by the special interest who profit from the status quo. Much like the effort to disparage the PPACA (Obamacare) it is an effort [SOCIALISM!!!!] by those who profit to protect their golden goose and those too dumb or too scared to embrace the future.