Justice?

[PoliticalChic]

Your story says that no execution date has been set. That implies that he has, in fact, been sentenced to execution, therefore it is apparent that it will happen at some unspecified time. And, of course, we all know just how long it takes to actually execute someone on death row in pretty much every state in the Union.

The is no such apparency...in fact, rather than his execution being 'readily seen,' the history of the judicaial system has shown that very often sentences are commuted, and life sentences become paroles.

This adds one more level to the inclination to commit crimes:
a) chances of getting caught

b) chances of beating the prosecution

c) chances of sentence being commuted

d) chances of parole

So...more of a bias toward taking a chance.

All quite true, which is why I added a qualifier, rather than stating simply that he was going to be executed. Used the way I used it, "apparently" can be a synonym for "presumably".

No, they often get out, live a full life, and serve as a model for those you see as less than sane, who I think are able to make judgements, just as less criminal folks do...

Familiar with the Leopold and Loeb case?

Leopold and Loeb killed Bobby Franks just to see how killing felt.

1. It was a crime that shocked the nation, a brutal murder in Chicago in 1924 of a child, by two wealthy college students who killed solely for the thrill of the experience. Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb had first met several years earlier, and their friendship had blossomed into a love affair. Both were intellectuals—too smart, they believed, for the police to catch them. For the Thrill of It: Leopold, Loeb, and the Murder That Shocked Chicago by Simon Baatz

2. It was, to oversimplify just a bit, the first great (nonpolitical) murder that prompted Americans to ask, "Why?" With so much given to them and such promising lives before them, how could "the boys," as they were called, have lured the innocent Franks into a rented car, beaten and strangled him, poured acid on his face and genitals, and dumped his body in a rural culvert?
They said they had killed Bobby Franks—Loeb's cousin—for "the thrill" of it. Leopold, Loeb, the "Thrill" of Murder, and the Crime of the Century - John A. Farrell (usnews.com)

3. Early in 1958, after 33 years in prison, Leopold was released on parole. Leopold moved to Puerto Rico to avoid media attention and married a widowed florist. He died in 1971. Leopold and Loeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what of society’s promise to Bobby Franks?

My concern is with the victims.

 

[PoliticalChic]

She just wants to satiate her blood lust, the same as Ramirez

No blood involved...and I don't believe in using the electric chair: I believe in using the electric sofa, so we can take three or four at a time.

Hey, why don't you have a seat....

 

[editec]

June 27th He entered the apartment 2, 79 year-old Jenny Vincow, and as she slept, he took a razor sharp six-inch hunting knife, and plunged the full length into the elderly woman’s chest. He raised her chin, he stabbed, then slashed her throat from ear to ear. The last image her dying eyes registered was of him- killing her.

March 26th He entered the home of Maxine and Vincent Zazzara, stood over the sleeping Vincent, and shot him in the left side of his head, just above the ear. Maxine awoke, he beat her and tied her hands behind her with a necktie. He found a ten-inch carving knife in the kitchen, and tried to cut her heart out: the rib cage stopped him. He cut away her eyelids, and removed both of her eyes, put them in a little jewelry box he had found, laughing as he did so.

April 14th He decided on the home of sixty-six year old William Doi and his fifty-six year old invalid wife, Lillian. He quickly found the bedroom. He shot Bill above the upper lip, right through the tongue. He used his gloved fists to beat him, kicking him. He went to Lillian and raped her.

May 29th Mabel Bell was eighty-three, and her invalid sister, Florence ‘Nettie’ Lang, eighty-one. He couldn’t find a sharp knife in the kitchen, but he did find a wood-handled hammer. He walked up to the frail, sleeping form of Nettie, and without hesitation, struck her in the head, sinking the hammer into her brain repeatedly. In Mabel’s room he struck her…returned to Nettie, ripped her nightgown off and raped her. Ate a banana, and left.

May 30th He moved straight to the bedroom of forty-two year old Carol Kyle. He ascertained that she was alone except for her seven-year old son. He locked the boy in the closet. He ripped off her nightgown, then her panties, unzipped and forced her to orally copulate him. He turned her over and roughly sodomized her. After ransacking the house, he sodomized her again, as she pleaded with him.

June 27th Twenty-eight year old schoolteacher, Patty Elaine Higgins, blond and attractive, was beaten brutally, her head nearly cut off, after having been sodomized.

July 2nd He stopped in front of the home of seventy-five year old Mary Louise Cannon. A widow, she lived alone. He spotted a heavy, milk-white vase-lamp with a gloved hand, and brought it down with all his might on Mary’s head. He walked to the kitchen, found a sharp ten-inch butcher knife, and plunged it into the left side of Mary’s throat. He twisted it, and plunged it in again.

July 7th On this night he selected the home of sixty-one year old Joyce Lucille Nelson. She lived alone. When she awoke, he knocked her to the ground with his fist, bent over her, and beat her with rapid, piston-like blows. He kicked her so hard that he left a clear imprint of his shoe embedded in her face.

July 20th Next, the home of Maxon and Lela Kneiding, sixty-eight and sixty-six. He switched on the light, and swung the machete into Max’s neck. The put his gun to Max’s head and pulled the trigger. Then to Lela’s face, and shot her three times.
July 20th Not satisfied, he found his way to the home of Chainarong and Somkid Khovananth, and their two children, an eight-year old boy and two-year old girl. He put the barrel of the gun one inch from Chainarong’s left ear and pulled the trigger. He ripped off Somkid’s nightgown, laid her next to her dead husband and raped her. After ransacking the house, and tying up the eight-year old, he made Somkid sit in a chair and fellate him. Then he sodomized her. After beating her, he raped her again.

August 8th Elyas Abowath was thirty-one. His wife, Sakina, twenty-seven. They has two boys, three-years old and ten-weeks old. He went to the bed, and without hesitation put a bullet into Elyas’s brain just above the left ear. He quickly broke Sakina’s nose, and handcuffed her. He told her he would kill her children, ripped off her nursing bra, and forced her to fellate him, then he raped and sodomized her- ripping and tearing. After searching the house, he returned to rape and sodomize her again, even drinking milk from her swollen breasts.

August 18th The Pans, Peter and Barbara, were sixty-six and sixty-two. He entered the home at 2 a.m., quickly walked up to Peter and shot him in the right temple. He attacked Barbara, sexually assaulting her, but she resisted…so he shot her in the head.

The above is from the painstakingly researched book by Philip Carlo, “The Night Stalker.”
In 1989, he was convicted on 43 counts, including 13 murders, and the authorities have good reason to believe that he had committed several others.
October 3, 1996, in California's San Quentin Prison he married Doreen Lioy, age 41, was a freelance magazine editor with a bachelor's degree in English.
No execution date has been set.



Where is the justice?

He's in prison and he's apparently going to be executed at some point. What else were you looking for?

I would like him to suffer...suffer the way his victims did.

And I would like the death penalty to be of the same order that he inflicted.

Wish in one hand, and shit in the other.

See which hand fills up first.

See: cruel and unusual punishment

 

[PoliticalChic]

He's in prison and he's apparently going to be executed at some point. What else were you looking for?

I would like him to suffer...suffer the way his victims did.

And I would like the death penalty to be of the same order that he inflicted.

Wish in one hand, and shit in the other.

See which hand fills up first.

See: cruel and unusual punishment

Cruel and unusual is what the criminal did, and once he did it...it's no longer unusual.

 

[George Costanza]

June 27th He entered the apartment 2, 79 year-old Jenny Vincow, and as she slept, he took a razor sharp six-inch hunting knife, and plunged the full length into the elderly woman’s chest. He raised her chin, he stabbed, then slashed her throat from ear to ear. The last image her dying eyes registered was of him- killing her.

March 26th He entered the home of Maxine and Vincent Zazzara, stood over the sleeping Vincent, and shot him in the left side of his head, just above the ear. Maxine awoke, he beat her and tied her hands behind her with a necktie. He found a ten-inch carving knife in the kitchen, and tried to cut her heart out: the rib cage stopped him. He cut away her eyelids, and removed both of her eyes, put them in a little jewelry box he had found, laughing as he did so.

April 14th He decided on the home of sixty-six year old William Doi and his fifty-six year old invalid wife, Lillian. He quickly found the bedroom. He shot Bill above the upper lip, right through the tongue. He used his gloved fists to beat him, kicking him. He went to Lillian and raped her.

May 29th Mabel Bell was eighty-three, and her invalid sister, Florence ‘Nettie’ Lang, eighty-one. He couldn’t find a sharp knife in the kitchen, but he did find a wood-handled hammer. He walked up to the frail, sleeping form of Nettie, and without hesitation, struck her in the head, sinking the hammer into her brain repeatedly. In Mabel’s room he struck her…returned to Nettie, ripped her nightgown off and raped her. Ate a banana, and left.

May 30th He moved straight to the bedroom of forty-two year old Carol Kyle. He ascertained that she was alone except for her seven-year old son. He locked the boy in the closet. He ripped off her nightgown, then her panties, unzipped and forced her to orally copulate him. He turned her over and roughly sodomized her. After ransacking the house, he sodomized her again, as she pleaded with him.

June 27th Twenty-eight year old schoolteacher, Patty Elaine Higgins, blond and attractive, was beaten brutally, her head nearly cut off, after having been sodomized.

July 2nd He stopped in front of the home of seventy-five year old Mary Louise Cannon. A widow, she lived alone. He spotted a heavy, milk-white vase-lamp with a gloved hand, and brought it down with all his might on Mary’s head. He walked to the kitchen, found a sharp ten-inch butcher knife, and plunged it into the left side of Mary’s throat. He twisted it, and plunged it in again.

July 7th On this night he selected the home of sixty-one year old Joyce Lucille Nelson. She lived alone. When she awoke, he knocked her to the ground with his fist, bent over her, and beat her with rapid, piston-like blows. He kicked her so hard that he left a clear imprint of his shoe embedded in her face.

July 20th Next, the home of Maxon and Lela Kneiding, sixty-eight and sixty-six. He switched on the light, and swung the machete into Max’s neck. The put his gun to Max’s head and pulled the trigger. Then to Lela’s face, and shot her three times.
July 20th Not satisfied, he found his way to the home of Chainarong and Somkid Khovananth, and their two children, an eight-year old boy and two-year old girl. He put the barrel of the gun one inch from Chainarong’s left ear and pulled the trigger. He ripped off Somkid’s nightgown, laid her next to her dead husband and raped her. After ransacking the house, and tying up the eight-year old, he made Somkid sit in a chair and fellate him. Then he sodomized her. After beating her, he raped her again.

August 8th Elyas Abowath was thirty-one. His wife, Sakina, twenty-seven. They has two boys, three-years old and ten-weeks old. He went to the bed, and without hesitation put a bullet into Elyas’s brain just above the left ear. He quickly broke Sakina’s nose, and handcuffed her. He told her he would kill her children, ripped off her nursing bra, and forced her to fellate him, then he raped and sodomized her- ripping and tearing. After searching the house, he returned to rape and sodomize her again, even drinking milk from her swollen breasts.

August 18th The Pans, Peter and Barbara, were sixty-six and sixty-two. He entered the home at 2 a.m., quickly walked up to Peter and shot him in the right temple. He attacked Barbara, sexually assaulting her, but she resisted…so he shot her in the head.

The above is from the painstakingly researched book by Philip Carlo, “The Night Stalker.”
In 1989, he was convicted on 43 counts, including 13 murders, and the authorities have good reason to believe that he had committed several others.
October 3, 1996, in California's San Quentin Prison he married Doreen Lioy, age 41, was a freelance magazine editor with a bachelor's degree in English.
No execution date has been set.



Where is the justice?

He's in prison and he's apparently going to be executed at some point. What else were you looking for?

I would like him to suffer...suffer the way his victims did.

And I would like the death penalty to be of the same order that he inflicted.

OK - then do not hold him in custody. Leave him out, in society. Then, one night, when he is sleeping in his bed, the executioner sneaks up on him and, as he did to Peter, quickly shoots him in the head.

But you'd better be careful what you ask for, because killing him the same way he killed his victims would probably not accomplish what you are looking for because doing it your way would be a surprise death that he never saw coming. Compare that to the ritualized killing by the state that is dragged out over years, with execution dates set and then stayed at the last minute, the last meal, waking on the morning of the execution (if sleep ever came) knowing that you are to be killed within a matter of hours, and, probably worst of all, living out each day knowing the day upon which you will be killed.

Who's to say which is the worst kind of death?

 

[PoliticalChic]

He's in prison and he's apparently going to be executed at some point. What else were you looking for?

I would like him to suffer...suffer the way his victims did.

And I would like the death penalty to be of the same order that he inflicted.

OK - then do not hold him in custody. Leave him out, in society. Then, one night, when he is sleeping in his bed, the executioner sneaks up on him and, as he did to Peter, quickly shoots him in the head.

But you'd better be careful what you ask for, because killing him the same way he killed his victims would probably not accomplish what you are looking for because doing it your way would be a surprise death that he never saw coming. Compare that to the ritualized killing by the state that is dragged out over years, with execution dates set and then stayed at the last minute, the last meal, waking on the morning of the execution (if sleep ever came) knowing that you are to be killed within a matter of hours, and, probably worst of all, living out each day knowing the day upon which you will be killed.

Who's to say which is the worst kind of death?

Hey, I've got an idea!

How about we allow the victims' families to participate in a writing contest: 'What would be the worst possible, most horrific death consistent with the deaths caused by the Staliker..."

And then have them serve as the jury to select the best (worst) one!

Neatooooh!

And we could make this method stare decisis, OK?

 

[Father Time]

I would like him to suffer...suffer the way his victims did.

And I would like the death penalty to be of the same order that he inflicted.

OK - then do not hold him in custody. Leave him out, in society. Then, one night, when he is sleeping in his bed, the executioner sneaks up on him and, as he did to Peter, quickly shoots him in the head.

But you'd better be careful what you ask for, because killing him the same way he killed his victims would probably not accomplish what you are looking for because doing it your way would be a surprise death that he never saw coming. Compare that to the ritualized killing by the state that is dragged out over years, with execution dates set and then stayed at the last minute, the last meal, waking on the morning of the execution (if sleep ever came) knowing that you are to be killed within a matter of hours, and, probably worst of all, living out each day knowing the day upon which you will be killed.

Who's to say which is the worst kind of death?

Hey, I've got an idea!

How about we allow the victims' families to participate in a writing contest: 'What would be the worst possible, most horrific death consistent with the deaths caused by the Staliker..."

And then have them serve as the jury to select the best (worst) one!

Neatooooh!

And we could make this method stare decisis, OK?

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

 

[Father Time]

I would like him to suffer...suffer the way his victims did.

And I would like the death penalty to be of the same order that he inflicted.

Wish in one hand, and shit in the other.

See which hand fills up first.

See: cruel and unusual punishment

Cruel and unusual is what the criminal did, and once he did it...it's no longer unusual.

So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done? So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual? Dressing like a giant banana when it's not Halloween is not unusual?

Come on PC spend 5 nanoseconds to think before you say stupid shit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wish in one hand, and shit in the other.

See which hand fills up first.

See: cruel and unusual punishment

Cruel and unusual is what the criminal did, and once he did it...it's no longer unusual.

So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done? So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual? Dressing like a giant banana when it's not Halloween is not unusual?

Come on PC spend 5 nanoseconds to think before you say stupid shit.

1. "So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done?"
The penalty inflicted is no longer unusual to the perpetrator, since he has used it before.

Don't forget....all murderers believe in the death penalty. And the method chosen is not unusual, as it was chosen by the murderer.


2. "So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual?"
Oops! Did I step on your personal toes there?

You can keep it up...until they catch you.

And watch your language...see, you're getting excited already!


3. Now here's the part of your post that I like: " ...5 nanoseconds..."
That's how long it should be from the guilty verdict until the time of execution!
It should be finished by the time the jury is filing out.
Bravo!

4. If we were to institute my suggestions, I claim the murder rate would go way down!
I double dog dare you to try it!

I like the way Texas does it, by the dozen!
And, to speed things up, in Texas, the last meal has become a buffet.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What's fucked up is for his victim's families to be paying for his room and board.

Make him labour to produce goods to be sold to feed him.

Do they still make them work the fields at Angola?

I dunno. I think if someone killed one of my loved ones, I'd be more than happy to pay to have him locked away where he couldn't hurt anyone else until he could be executed (although admittedly, I would prefer the execution be performed expeditiously, rather than giving him time to die of old age). And I think I would prefer that he just sit in a small cell, staring at the walls, bored to tears, rather than doing anything that might break up the monotony.

I suppose it's all in how you look at it. Also, I don't know that I want to endanger the correctional officers any more than necessary by allowing an evil piece of shit like this any sort of freedom of movement.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The is no such apparency...in fact, rather than his execution being 'readily seen,' the history of the judicaial system has shown that very often sentences are commuted, and life sentences become paroles.

This adds one more level to the inclination to commit crimes:
a) chances of getting caught

b) chances of beating the prosecution

c) chances of sentence being commuted

d) chances of parole

So...more of a bias toward taking a chance.

All quite true, which is why I added a qualifier, rather than stating simply that he was going to be executed. Used the way I used it, "apparently" can be a synonym for "presumably".

No, they often get out, live a full life, and serve as a model for those you see as less than sane, who I think are able to make judgements, just as less criminal folks do...

Familiar with the Leopold and Loeb case?

Leopold and Loeb killed Bobby Franks just to see how killing felt.

1. It was a crime that shocked the nation, a brutal murder in Chicago in 1924 of a child, by two wealthy college students who killed solely for the thrill of the experience. Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb had first met several years earlier, and their friendship had blossomed into a love affair. Both were intellectuals—too smart, they believed, for the police to catch them. For the Thrill of It: Leopold, Loeb, and the Murder That Shocked Chicago by Simon Baatz

2. It was, to oversimplify just a bit, the first great (nonpolitical) murder that prompted Americans to ask, "Why?" With so much given to them and such promising lives before them, how could "the boys," as they were called, have lured the innocent Franks into a rented car, beaten and strangled him, poured acid on his face and genitals, and dumped his body in a rural culvert?
They said they had killed Bobby Franks—Loeb's cousin—for "the thrill" of it. Leopold, Loeb, the "Thrill" of Murder, and the Crime of the Century - John A. Farrell (usnews.com)

3. Early in 1958, after 33 years in prison, Leopold was released on parole. Leopold moved to Puerto Rico to avoid media attention and married a widowed florist. He died in 1971. Leopold and Loeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what of society’s promise to Bobby Franks?

My concern is with the victims.

Hey, we're on the same side when it comes to the issue of speedy executions for people like this. I just don't think including acts that mirror their savagery in that execution benefits society. Dispatch them quickly and cleanly, as one would a rabid dog.

 

[PoliticalChic]

All quite true, which is why I added a qualifier, rather than stating simply that he was going to be executed. Used the way I used it, "apparently" can be a synonym for "presumably".

No, they often get out, live a full life, and serve as a model for those you see as less than sane, who I think are able to make judgements, just as less criminal folks do...

Familiar with the Leopold and Loeb case?

Leopold and Loeb killed Bobby Franks just to see how killing felt.

1. It was a crime that shocked the nation, a brutal murder in Chicago in 1924 of a child, by two wealthy college students who killed solely for the thrill of the experience. Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb had first met several years earlier, and their friendship had blossomed into a love affair. Both were intellectuals—too smart, they believed, for the police to catch them. For the Thrill of It: Leopold, Loeb, and the Murder That Shocked Chicago by Simon Baatz

2. It was, to oversimplify just a bit, the first great (nonpolitical) murder that prompted Americans to ask, "Why?" With so much given to them and such promising lives before them, how could "the boys," as they were called, have lured the innocent Franks into a rented car, beaten and strangled him, poured acid on his face and genitals, and dumped his body in a rural culvert?
They said they had killed Bobby Franks—Loeb's cousin—for "the thrill" of it. Leopold, Loeb, the "Thrill" of Murder, and the Crime of the Century - John A. Farrell (usnews.com)

3. Early in 1958, after 33 years in prison, Leopold was released on parole. Leopold moved to Puerto Rico to avoid media attention and married a widowed florist. He died in 1971. Leopold and Loeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what of society’s promise to Bobby Franks?

My concern is with the victims.

Hey, we're on the same side when it comes to the issue of speedy executions for people like this. I just don't think including acts that mirror their savagery in that execution benefits society. Dispatch them quickly and cleanly, as one would a rabid dog.

I understand that our differences may be minimal, but this is a good opportunity to discuss same...

To summon up an analogy, isn't war, the only way to handle certain situations and events, "acts that mirror their savagery," and, in fact, the only way to convince some opponents?

Further, the prison life that many sustain is far from the horror that many victims face.

There was the Richard Speck case,

1. "In 1966, a twenty-four-year-old sailor named Richard Speck committed one of the most shocking crimes in American history. Intruding into a dormitory of female student nurses, he tied up nine women, and then systematically murdered eight of them. The one survivor hid under a bed, and Speck missed her during his homicidal rampage."
Richard Speck "Supermale" by Denise Noe

He took female hormones, and 'became' a woman in prison:
2. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQlmquevkxg&feature=related[/ame]

"if they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd let me loose"

This beast, who slaughtered eight young women,was allowed to die a natural death.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I would like him to suffer...suffer the way his victims did.

And I would like the death penalty to be of the same order that he inflicted.

That's not justice. That's vengeance.

I'm going to go with this definition of justice: the administering of deserved punishment or reward.

And I'm going to allow the convicted felon to decide on the appropriate sentence, by using the method that he or she meted out.

How would you punish for the crime of attempted murder with a firearm (shot at someone and missed)

shoot at them and miss?

 

[Father Time]

Cruel and unusual is what the criminal did, and once he did it...it's no longer unusual.

So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done? So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual? Dressing like a giant banana when it's not Halloween is not unusual?

Come on PC spend 5 nanoseconds to think before you say stupid shit.

1. "So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done?"
The penalty inflicted is no longer unusual to the perpetrator, since he has used it before.

That is not what unusual means. It never meant that. Ever. "It's unusual for him to be up this late, but here he is."

4. If we were to institute my suggestions, I claim the murder rate would go way down!
I double dog dare you to try it!

I dare you to prove it'll work first.

You know PC this is really getting pathetic, you know damn well that your idea violates the 8th amendment and instead of admitting it you'd rather delude yourself into thinking it doesn't.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done? So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual? Dressing like a giant banana when it's not Halloween is not unusual?

Come on PC spend 5 nanoseconds to think before you say stupid shit.

1. "So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done?"
The penalty inflicted is no longer unusual to the perpetrator, since he has used it before.

That is not what unusual means. It never meant that. Ever. "It's unusual for him to be up this late, but here he is."

4. If we were to institute my suggestions, I claim the murder rate would go way down!
I double dog dare you to try it!

I dare you to prove it'll work first.

You know PC this is really getting pathetic, you know damn well that your idea violates the 8th amendment and instead of admitting it you'd rather delude yourself into thinking it doesn't.

Ah, once again a cross-roads: the people's will, or that of unelected judges.

Have you read Talmon, "Totalitarian Democracy"? The people vote, yet have no participation in the decision making processes.

 

[Father Time]

1. "So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done?"
The penalty inflicted is no longer unusual to the perpetrator, since he has used it before.

That is not what unusual means. It never meant that. Ever. "It's unusual for him to be up this late, but here he is."

4. If we were to institute my suggestions, I claim the murder rate would go way down!
I double dog dare you to try it!

I dare you to prove it'll work first.

You know PC this is really getting pathetic, you know damn well that your idea violates the 8th amendment and instead of admitting it you'd rather delude yourself into thinking it doesn't.

Ah, once again a cross-roads: the people's will, or that of unelected judges.

Have you read Talmon, "Totalitarian Democracy"? The people vote, yet have no participation in the decision making processes.

If the people wish to amend the 8th there is a way to do it, you can't just have a judge and a jury suddenly decide to ignore it 'this one time'.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, they often get out, live a full life, and serve as a model for those you see as less than sane, who I think are able to make judgements, just as less criminal folks do...

Familiar with the Leopold and Loeb case?

Leopold and Loeb killed Bobby Franks just to see how killing felt.

1. It was a crime that shocked the nation, a brutal murder in Chicago in 1924 of a child, by two wealthy college students who killed solely for the thrill of the experience. Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb had first met several years earlier, and their friendship had blossomed into a love affair. Both were intellectuals—too smart, they believed, for the police to catch them. For the Thrill of It: Leopold, Loeb, and the Murder That Shocked Chicago by Simon Baatz

2. It was, to oversimplify just a bit, the first great (nonpolitical) murder that prompted Americans to ask, "Why?" With so much given to them and such promising lives before them, how could "the boys," as they were called, have lured the innocent Franks into a rented car, beaten and strangled him, poured acid on his face and genitals, and dumped his body in a rural culvert?
They said they had killed Bobby Franks—Loeb's cousin—for "the thrill" of it. Leopold, Loeb, the "Thrill" of Murder, and the Crime of the Century - John A. Farrell (usnews.com)

3. Early in 1958, after 33 years in prison, Leopold was released on parole. Leopold moved to Puerto Rico to avoid media attention and married a widowed florist. He died in 1971. Leopold and Loeb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what of society’s promise to Bobby Franks?

My concern is with the victims.

Hey, we're on the same side when it comes to the issue of speedy executions for people like this. I just don't think including acts that mirror their savagery in that execution benefits society. Dispatch them quickly and cleanly, as one would a rabid dog.

I understand that our differences may be minimal, but this is a good opportunity to discuss same...

To summon up an analogy, isn't war, the only way to handle certain situations and events, "acts that mirror their savagery," and, in fact, the only way to convince some opponents?

No and yes. Yes, war is the only way to convince some opponents, and no, it doesn't require us to mirror their savagery. An opponent that targets civlians, for example, does not require us to target civilians ourselves to conduct or win a war. An opponent who brutalizes POWs does not require us to brutalize POWs. As savage and horrific as war is, there are still differences in the ways of conducting it that distinguish civilized people, pushed to defend themselves, from evil, bestial people.

Further, the prison life that many sustain is far from the horror that many victims face.

There was the Richard Speck case,

1. "In 1966, a twenty-four-year-old sailor named Richard Speck committed one of the most shocking crimes in American history. Intruding into a dormitory of female student nurses, he tied up nine women, and then systematically murdered eight of them. The one survivor hid under a bed, and Speck missed her during his homicidal rampage."
Richard Speck "Supermale" by Denise Noe

He took female hormones, and 'became' a woman in prison:
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQlmquevkxg&feature=related

"if they only knew how much fun I was having, they'd let me loose"

This beast, who slaughtered eight young women,was allowed to die a natural death.

Again, I appreciate the need to make executions speedier, and to make prison less like a vacation, but that doesn't equate to trying to re-enact a killer's crime on him.

 

[Trajan]

In 1989, he was convicted on 43 counts, including 13 murders, and the authorities have good reason to believe that he had committed several others.
October 3, 1996, in California's San Quentin Prison he married Doreen Lioy, age 41, was a freelance magazine editor with a bachelor's degree in English.
No execution date has been set.



Where is the justice?

this to me is particularly ridiculous and egregious to the victims families. he was allowed to marry? I am not even going to ask if he was allowed conjugal visits...i don't wan to know.


what is the hold up? why, has he not been executed as sentence stipulates?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Cruel and unusual is what the criminal did, and once he did it...it's no longer unusual.

So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done? So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual? Dressing like a giant banana when it's not Halloween is not unusual?

Come on PC spend 5 nanoseconds to think before you say stupid shit.

1. "So anything someone does is no longer unusual because it's been done?"
The penalty inflicted is no longer unusual to the perpetrator, since he has used it before.

Don't forget....all murderers believe in the death penalty. And the method chosen is not unusual, as it was chosen by the murderer.


2. "So pedophilia is not unusual? Scat porn is not unusual?"
Oops! Did I step on your personal toes there?

You can keep it up...until they catch you.

And watch your language...see, you're getting excited already!


3. Now here's the part of your post that I like: " ...5 nanoseconds..."
That's how long it should be from the guilty verdict until the time of execution!
It should be finished by the time the jury is filing out.
Bravo!

4. If we were to institute my suggestions, I claim the murder rate would go way down!
I double dog dare you to try it!

I like the way Texas does it, by the dozen!
And, to speed things up, in Texas, the last meal has become a buffet.

What's the murder rate in Texas?

 

[NYcarbineer]

We prohibit cruel and unusual punishment because it doesn't fit our definition of justice. You can redefine justice if you want,

but you are going to need some support, sufficient to change the law of the land.