Just what are these sexual harassers doing?

[Bonzi]

Sex needs for men is like the need to eat and drink. As wrong as it is for men to sexually harass women, it is wrong for women to sexually harass men in the form of being provocative and being a flirt/tease

There is NO chance men don't agree with this. They are just afraid to admit it publically.

Can I get an "amen"!

You think that men don't want attractive women looking provocative and flirting with them? BS. They love that, and the older they get, the more they love it. Men love to get attention from women, just as women love to get attention from men. There is a line where it crosses into the "creepy" realm, but there is absolutely nothing with being who you are, even if that is provocative and flirty. UNLESS, you are married and have made a commitment to somebody and that person would not like it. Otherwise, flirting doesn't harm anyone, and a woman flirting is in no way responsible for a man deciding to rape her or assault her.

In general no.
In a working situation where you are flirting/being provocative with a boss or potential boss, it might be construed differently.

Don't get me wrong. I am not excusing bad behavior, I'm just saying women can do things to prevent it.

 

[usmbguest5318]

It's what it's always about power and control if a person has a lot of power they think they can do anything and with that same power control people and keep them quiet. Would Harvey Weinstein have gotten away with what he did for as long as he did without the power to make and break people? If Weinsteins actions had not gotten exposed (no pun intended) would we be hearing about all these other incidents?

It's what it's always about power and control if a person has a lot of power they think they can do anything

Yes, some people who have a lot of influence have that kind of hubris, but not always is the assault/harassment about power or control, nor do all influential people think they can do anything.

Would Harvey Weinstein have gotten away with what he did for as long as he did without the power to make and break people?

He might have. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the first or only person to have no "make and break" capability and nonetheless sexually harass someone.

For example, people have no particular power or control over another have committed so-called date rape, and it'd be incredibly naive to think that all who've committed that offense have been discovered and convicted. (See case law citations in note 1 below) I suspect quite a lot of collegiate women have been the victims of harassment by their male classmates taking things too far, ostensibly under the auspices of "all in good fun," which, as anyone who's been harassed, sexually or otherwise, can attest, they don't find it good or fun.

I came of age in the time when many schools transitioned to co-ed status. At my school and others like it, it was a "quiet quip" among us boys that the transition was good because it increased the "preponderance and proximity of p*ssy," and while most of us construe that aphorism as comedy, not all of us did. Now nobody got raped, but that nothing went that far is no accolade or recompense. The intrepid girls who attended those schools endured a measure of sexual harassment that was uncalled for, yet boys at school had no particular power or control over the fates of the girls as you've indicated Weinstein may have and thereby exploited.

What's amiss, IMO, is that there are simply too many people who cannot, never bothered to learn to, were never taught to, and/or simply refuse to, acknowledge (in their own mind) another's physical attractiveness without also being sexually/physically attracted to that other person, and as a result conduct themselves in ways minor or not so minor aimed at ingratiating themselves with that person, hoping to create a nexus of events that lead to a sexual encounter. I suppose one sort of expects that from adolescents given their hormonally addled intellects and emotions, but among the expectations of an adult is that one has learned how to keep those things in check, as it were.

Lastly, I'll note that it seems to me the predilection for sexually harassing another person has everything to do with the offender's character, frame of mind and worldview. That the persons thus offended are women is merely a reflection of there being more straight folks than gay folks. Kevin Spacey's oblique admission of his actions show us that. [1]


Note:

1. I suspect it's just a matter of time before we hear about other specific gay men/women who've sexually harassed others; however, Spacey is not the first gay man of whom we've heard doing so.
   • Cheesecake Factory Settles EEOC Suit in Case of Severe Same-Sex Sexual Harassment
     
   • Sexual Harassment Is Pervasive and Under-Reported in Gay Bars
     
   • Male-On-Male Sexual Harassment Claims Becoming More Common | Law.com
     
   • Hollywood men who've said they were victims of sexual misconduct
     
   • Bryan Singer accuser names three Hollywood execs in additional lawsuits
     
   • Case law citations -- The point of listing these is to show that the "make or break" power need not exist for one to sexually harass/assault another. It stands to reason that while the offenders in matters that made it to court were discovered, some share of such events are not reported and prosecuted and the offenders suffer no penalty.
     • Oncale v. Sundowner Offshore Services, Inc.
     • Mickens v. General Electric Co.

​

 

[JimBowie1958]

I think that rape, date-rape, and sexual assault (like grabbing someone by the genitals) are criminal acts, oviously.

But asking someone to watch you shower, or asking if they want a back rub, bumping into them with no hands on a dance floor, or even a straight forward 'Do you want to fuck'?, while crude and possibly sexual harassment, are not criminal. They are now days considered intolerable, but there was a time when they were tolerated and laughed about, back in the days of the 'Streakers', the time when if you did not want to have sex with just about anyone you were considered a prude.

While Weinstein has done some things that are crude and considered intolerable today, he matured during a time when it was not, and I just feel like most of this piling on is unfair and gold digging.

Kevin Spacey supposedly laid on top of a 14 year old and said he was trying to seduce him but that is only one side of the story. Spacey says he cant remember it and apologized in case he did, and his whole career is ruined now.

I dont think this is fair at all and the public opinion seems to have gone from mostly presuming innocence back in the '90s to now presuming the worst gossip is all true.

But these are real people and it can blow back on the innocent as well as the guilty.

We are going down a very dangerous road, IMO.

 

[Mac1958]

Given the abundance of sexual harassment news of late, I've found myself wondering just what the hell are these alleged harassers doing.

We are going down a very dangerous road, IMO.

Yeah.

I have no doubt that (a) some pretty horrific shit happens, and (b) that if any of it happened to one of my beautiful daughters I'd end up in jail for assault on that guy, at least.

At the same time...

This kind of environment also invites over-reactions, misinterpretations and flat-out dishonesty. So yeah, accusations need to be proven or corroborated in some way, I'd think. We do need to be careful here.
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