Jimmy Carter says Mideast peace is 'vanishing'

[Saigon]

Roudy -

And what impact did the Shah's public praising of Carter have on Iran at the time?

Idiot, allies always praise each other publicly.

Obviously you wouldn't know this, but the Shah's toasting of Carter with alcohol was a masive nail in the Shah's coffin. In was a catastrophic error from a despot who had completely lost touch with his own people.

The attacks against the Shah began at once - and did not end until he left office.

It remains one of the Shah's worst gaffes - right up there with when he claimed God helped him stay on his horse when he fell riding in Switzerland. And of course the week after the alcohol gaffe - he had Khomenii's son killed, from which point nothing could have saved the Shah from the wrath of his people.

I recommend Kapuscinki's legendary 'Shah of Shahs' for anyone genuinely interested in the fall of the Shah.

 

[Roudy]

What is there to answer? All I know is that nowadays telling a democrat "you're just like Carter" is the biggest insult. That's why he was kept at least 1000 miles away from the Democrat convention, and he has not been asked to make even ONE appearance on behalf of the Obama campaign. It's almost like he's passed away already.

True - he's much like Bush in that sense that he has beome synonymous with failure within his party.

In both cases that is partially deserved, but partially some bad luck.

This does not mean that his work with election monotiring has not been important, unique, successful and deserving of the utmost respect from people who genuinely believe in democracy.

What he's done afterward has nothing to do his presidency.

 

[Saigon]

What he's done afterward has nothing to do his presidency.

No, it doesn't.

In which case an honest person might also criticise some of the mistakes he made while in office, while also praising much of the work he has done since leaving office.

I don't see that happening on this thread.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

And what impact did the Shah's public praising of Carter have on Iran at the time?

Idiot, allies always praise each other publicly.

Obviously you wouldn't know this, but the Shah's toasting of Carter with alcohol was a masive nail in the Shah's coffin. In was a catastrophic error from a despot who had completely lost touch with his own people.

The attacks against the Shah began at once - and did not end until he left office.

It remains one of the Shah's worst gaffes - right up there with when he claimed God helped him stay on his horse when he fell riding in Switzerland.

I recommend Kapuscinki's legendary 'Shah of Shahs' for anyone genuinely interested in the fall of the Shah.

Ha ha ha! Alcohol was legal in Iran during the Shahs time and he toasted with many world leaders. Your knowledge and claims are pathetic and bordering on insanity. Yeah, the Iranian revolution was instigated by the "Shah's toasting alcohol". Fucking lunatic.

 

[Saigon]

Roudy -

It would never occured to me that:

a) you would be aware of these events

b) you would be capable of an adult response upon hearing of them

Luckily most people on the forum who are actually interested in Iran are also a little better informed than you are.

The book mentioned above explores this point in detail.

 

[Roudy]

What he's done afterward has nothing to do his presidency.

No, it doesn't.

In which case an honest person might also criticise some of the mistakes he made while in office, while also praising much of the work he has done since leaving office.

I don't see that happening on this thread.

Carter does alot of humanitarian work now, as well as being on the take of the Arabs and Islamists to say bullshit about Israel. It's best he stay out of politics and not render any opinions since he failed so miserably as a politician and a president.

 

[Roudy]

Roudy -

It would never occured to me that:

a) you would be aware of these events

b) you would be capable of an adult response upon hearing of them

Luckily most people on the forum who are actually interested in Iran are also a little better informed than you are.

It occurred to me that you know nothing about countries you claim to know a lot about. But that's basically been your hallmark on this forum.

 

[Saigon]

I watched president Carter on TV toasting the Shah on New Year's Eve, and thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen, especially when the Shah lifted his champagne glass. And I thought "We're in a muslim country, he's celebrating an American holiday, by toasting with alcohol. Isnt this dumb? Doesnt he know anything about his own country? The people in his own country?"

Michael Metrinko, The Fall of the Shah (2009), BBC World News documentary

Muhammad Reza Pahlavi - Wikiquote

and here is the video of the same story.

 

[kvetch]

Saigon----you can learn about islam by talking to muslims---reading the koran --visiting a mosque---etc etc ------you can learn A LOT MORE by talking to non muslims who survived islamic countries

visiting islamic countries will get you a nice cup of tea in the home of a nice friendly muslim host-----and a market place experience Right now---for a better understanding of islam ------you should visit Yemen rather than Jakarta, Try the capitol SANAA---and the area around it

is Yemen where your hubby is from?

That's where the Bin Laden family ...his Dad ......came from before going to Saudi....

Did he grow up under the wicked British Rule in Aden?

Not much fun for anyone there, I agree; poor starving bath buns.

 

[irosie91]

Saigon----I assure you-----you have know nothing that would be new information for me-------Osama's MOTHER was from Yemen. Yemen is a highly fertile country and rich with natural resources------which is why it had a sizeable and happy jewish population ------before the invasion from arabia There was---at one time a sizeable christian population there too. Now it is a cesspit with blood in the gutters and starvation and disease and almost 100% muslim

 

[ima]

If the choppers don't crash in the desert and they actually rescue the hostages in Iran, Carter wins a second term and no one ever hears about Ronald Reagan.
But choppers crash (or were shot down more likely), and Carter becomes a lame duck douchesack. Pity.

 

[Roudy]

I watched president Carter on TV toasting the Shah on New Year's Eve, and thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen, especially when the Shah lifted his champagne glass. And I thought "We're in a muslim country, he's celebrating an American holiday, by toasting with alcohol. Isnt this dumb? Doesnt he know anything about his own country? The people in his own country?"

Michael Metrinko, The Fall of the Shah (2009), BBC World News documentary

Muhammad Reza Pahlavi - Wikiquote

and here is the video of the same story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDJ9VKxLCcI

Asshole, I lived in Iran. The Shah and his father brought many reforms, such equal rights to women and minorities, and turning the country into a secular progressive Western style country. Alcohol was legal and openly consumed and purchased by Iranians. Your claim is so outlandish and ignorant I don't even know how to respond. You are a know nothing blowhard.

 

[Roudy]

If the choppers don't crash in the desert and they actually rescue the hostages in Iran, Carter wins a second term and no one ever hears about Ronald Reagan.
But choppers crash (or were shot down more likely), and Carter becomes a lame duck douchesack. Pity.

What are you talking about, Carter waiting over 360 days before he ordered a rescue.

 

[kvetch]

Saigon----you can learn about islam by talking to muslims---reading the koran --visiting a mosque---etc etc ------you can learn A LOT MORE by talking to non muslims who survived islamic countries

visiting islamic countries will get you a nice cup of tea in the home of a nice friendly muslim host-----and a market place experience Right now---for a better understanding of islam ------you should visit Yemen rather than Jakarta, Try the capitol SANAA---and the area around it

is Yemen where your hubby is from?

That's where the Bin Laden family ...his Dad ......came from before going to Saudi....

Did he grow up under the wicked British Rule in Aden?

Not much fun for anyone there, I agree; poor starving bath buns.

Jimmy Carter is one of the better ex Presidents and what he says is the plain truth which Zionists never like.

But it's actually a big UNDERSTATEMENT.

600,000 Israelis were granted 53% of Palestine by the UN partition plan
1, 200,000 Arabs got 47%

Israel stole another25% in 1948 and expelled 2 thirds of all the Arabs by force.

Of the remaining 22%, that could be a Palestinian State, Israel has now all but annexed Area C...over half of it and 600,000 thieves known as settlers have defied international law and cannot be removed without a civil war in israel.

The vanishing 2 state Carter talks of is basically just the west bank cities, now surrounded by walls, jews only roads, IDF army camps and aggressive settlers.

Those are the facts as they are.

The 2 state was only ever a smokescreen behind which the land has been stolen.

Project Zion is almost complete; a fully fledged apartheid state with arab bantustans as the 2nd state

all else is BS

 

[irosie91]

The chopper crash was the most devastating blow to Carter but by no means his only blow-------even before that time ----lots of people began to see him as a hopeless jerk most assuredly at every stop of Iranian crisis------but lots of other issues here at home

 

[Saigon]

Asshole, I lived in Iran. The Shah and his father brought many reforms, such equal rights to women and minorities, and turning the country into a secular progressive Western style country. Alcohol was legal and openly consumed and purchased by Iranians. Your claim is so outlandish and ignorant I don't even know how to respond. You are a know nothing blowhard.

Of course you don't know how to respond!

You haven't watched the video nor read the book, and of course you won't do.

What is important to you is not facts or being right - but protecting your pride.

The funny thing about this case is that it really is common knowledge. It's the kind of thing that anyone with even a passing interest in the debate would know - and yet here you are claiming to have lived in Iran and you didn't know it. Bewildering.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Saigon has travelled extensively throughout the world, and has been of service to the Jewish ppl, since he worked for several years on a kibbutz in Israel.

 

[irosie91]

Saigon----you want to tell us in what way Ayatoilets are so much better than was the SHAH? Try not to WOW me with an absolute increase in the literacy rate------since the Shah was way back then ALSO into increasing Literacy Most of my impression of Iran comes from the scores and scores of Iranians---both muslim and jew----that I have known over the past 45 years. From them----in most cases the loss of the Shah was devastating----in others THEY SUPPORTED KHOMEINI AT FIRST------but that support soon fell apart I do not know and have not encountered a single Iranian in the US----happy with the Ayatoilets in Iran ----or the outcome of the "cutural revolution" Iranians are, in general------highly educated----In the US ----they have a far higher education than the average american

 

[Roudy]

Asshole, I lived in Iran. The Shah and his father brought many reforms, such equal rights to women and minorities, and turning the country into a secular progressive Western style country. Alcohol was legal and openly consumed and purchased by Iranians. Your claim is so outlandish and ignorant I don't even know how to respond. You are a know nothing blowhard.

Of course you don't know how to respond!

You haven't watched the video nor read the book, and of course you won't do.

What is important to you is not facts or being right - but protecting your pride.

The funny thing about this case is that it really is common knowledge. It's the kind of thing that anyone with even a passing interest in the debate would know - and yet here you are claiming to have lived in Iran and you didn't know it. Bewildering.

I don't need to watch a fucking video, I lived the thing, you moron. I was right smack there in the middle of the revolution and martial law, when BBC England in UK would broadcast in Farsi every afternoon on my shortwave MW radio, the Ayatollah's message. The last thing that caused the Iranian revolution was the "Shah's toasting". There are many theories about what happened, and most of them are conspiracies. I can tell you that the US (under Jimmy Carter), England, France, and the West in general were complicit in stabbing the Shah in the back and plotting his removal. Carter's presidency brought about the rise of Islamic radicalism in the Middle East. And the president we have in office today is not much different than Carter. Perceived as "intelligent" yet a major fuckup and liar.

 

[Roudy]

Saigon----you want to tell us in what way Ayatoilets are so much better than was the SHAH? Try not to WOW me with an absolute increase in the literacy rate------since the Shah was way back then ALSO into increasing Literacy Most of my impression of Iran comes from the scores and scores of Iranians---both muslim and jew----that I have known over the past 45 years. From them----in most cases the loss of the Shah was devastating----in others THEY SUPPORTED KHOMEINI AT FIRST------but that support soon fell apart I do not know and have not encountered a single Iranian in the US----happy with the Ayatoilets in Iran ----or the outcome of the "cutural revolution" Iranians are, in general------highly educated----In the US ----they have a far higher education than the average american

Yes irose, the Democrats are always good at preaching "human rights" to our allies, and even removing them because of that, but when they are replaced by bloodthirsty Islamists who give the US a finger, the cowards go silent quickly, and stand by while they butcher their own people.