Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

[varelse]

“Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?” quipped Marilyn Kleinberg Neimark, a long-time activist and professor, in a question directed at Americans for Peace Now board member Kathleen Peratis.


Those eight words summed up the spirit of the evening last night at a New York City panel debating the question of whether Israel is or could be a democracy. The “tooth fairy” Neimark referred to was Peratis’ faith that a progressive, democratic Zionist vision of Israel can win out in the end, and that it is important to keep fighting for that vision.
...
The back-and-forth over the question of Israeli democracy was aired in a Jewish space: Beit Simchat Torah, a progressive synagogue that caters to lesbian and gay Jews. All of the panelists were Jews, and the discussion was organized by progressive Jewish activists and moderated by Lizzy Ratner, a New York-based journalist who co-edited The Goldstone Report: The Legacy of the Landmark Investigation of the Gaza Conflict. The room at Beit Simchat Torah was almost full, and an audience of more than 200 listened to a largely respectful, civil debate about a contentious question in a Jewish space--something that all the panelists were grateful for.
The panel comes “at a moment” when some members of the Jewish community want to “restrict debate” on Israel, said Ratner. “It’s so moving to be here to have these discussions,” Vilkomerson said.


Controversy broke out over the panel even before it took place. It was originally scheduled to be held at Ansche Chesed, a Conservative synagogue on the Upper West Side, before the rabbi there squashed it for fear of the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement being addressed.

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Your thoughts?

 

[Hossfly]

“Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?” quipped Marilyn Kleinberg Neimark, a long-time activist and professor, in a question directed at Americans for Peace Now board member Kathleen Peratis.


Those eight words summed up the spirit of the evening last night at a New York City panel debating the question of whether Israel is or could be a democracy. The “tooth fairy” Neimark referred to was Peratis’ faith that a progressive, democratic Zionist vision of Israel can win out in the end, and that it is important to keep fighting for that vision.
...
The back-and-forth over the question of Israeli democracy was aired in a Jewish space: Beit Simchat Torah, a progressive synagogue that caters to lesbian and gay Jews. All of the panelists were Jews, and the discussion was organized by progressive Jewish activists and moderated by Lizzy Ratner, a New York-based journalist who co-edited The Goldstone Report: The Legacy of the Landmark Investigation of the Gaza Conflict. The room at Beit Simchat Torah was almost full, and an audience of more than 200 listened to a largely respectful, civil debate about a contentious question in a Jewish space--something that all the panelists were grateful for.
The panel comes “at a moment” when some members of the Jewish community want to “restrict debate” on Israel, said Ratner. “It’s so moving to be here to have these discussions,” Vilkomerson said.


Controversy broke out over the panel even before it took place. It was originally scheduled to be held at Ansche Chesed, a Conservative synagogue on the Upper West Side, before the rabbi there squashed it for fear of the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement being addressed.

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Your thoughts?

Yes, Virginia, there is a tooth fairy.


https://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/israel/government

 

[SAYIT]

“Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?” quipped Marilyn Kleinberg Neimark, a long-time activist and professor, in a question directed at Americans for Peace Now board member Kathleen Peratis.


Those eight words summed up the spirit of the evening last night at a New York City panel debating the question of whether Israel is or could be a democracy. The “tooth fairy” Neimark referred to was Peratis’ faith that a progressive, democratic Zionist vision of Israel can win out in the end, and that it is important to keep fighting for that vision.
...
The back-and-forth over the question of Israeli democracy was aired in a Jewish space: Beit Simchat Torah, a progressive synagogue that caters to lesbian and gay Jews. All of the panelists were Jews, and the discussion was organized by progressive Jewish activists and moderated by Lizzy Ratner, a New York-based journalist who co-edited The Goldstone Report: The Legacy of the Landmark Investigation of the Gaza Conflict. The room at Beit Simchat Torah was almost full, and an audience of more than 200 listened to a largely respectful, civil debate about a contentious question in a Jewish space--something that all the panelists were grateful for.
The panel comes “at a moment” when some members of the Jewish community want to “restrict debate” on Israel, said Ratner. “It’s so moving to be here to have these discussions,” Vilkomerson said.


Controversy broke out over the panel even before it took place. It was originally scheduled to be held at Ansche Chesed, a Conservative synagogue on the Upper West Side, before the rabbi there squashed it for fear of the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement being addressed.

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Your thoughts?

Israel will be whatever her citizens make her. Your concern?

 

[georgephillip]

“Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?” quipped Marilyn Kleinberg Neimark, a long-time activist and professor, in a question directed at Americans for Peace Now board member Kathleen Peratis.


Those eight words summed up the spirit of the evening last night at a New York City panel debating the question of whether Israel is or could be a democracy. The “tooth fairy” Neimark referred to was Peratis’ faith that a progressive, democratic Zionist vision of Israel can win out in the end, and that it is important to keep fighting for that vision.
...
The back-and-forth over the question of Israeli democracy was aired in a Jewish space: Beit Simchat Torah, a progressive synagogue that caters to lesbian and gay Jews. All of the panelists were Jews, and the discussion was organized by progressive Jewish activists and moderated by Lizzy Ratner, a New York-based journalist who co-edited The Goldstone Report: The Legacy of the Landmark Investigation of the Gaza Conflict. The room at Beit Simchat Torah was almost full, and an audience of more than 200 listened to a largely respectful, civil debate about a contentious question in a Jewish space--something that all the panelists were grateful for.
The panel comes “at a moment” when some members of the Jewish community want to “restrict debate” on Israel, said Ratner. “It’s so moving to be here to have these discussions,” Vilkomerson said.


Controversy broke out over the panel even before it took place. It was originally scheduled to be held at Ansche Chesed, a Conservative synagogue on the Upper West Side, before the rabbi there squashed it for fear of the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement being addressed.

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Your thoughts?

Israel will be whatever her citizens make her. Your concern?

Citizens or nationals?

"Peratis and J.J. Goldberg, an editor-at-large for the Jewish Daily Forward, argued that Israel was indeed a democracy--within the Green Line--though it was a flawed one."

Jews currently control all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.
All Jews living on that land have a right to vote in Israeli elections.
The majority of all Arabs living on the same land do not.
Your solution?

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

 

[georgephillip]

"Another revealing moment came during the question and answer session. Dorothy Zellner, a long-time civil rights activist and member of Jews Say No!, questioned Goldberg and Peratis sharply: is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy?"

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

 

[SAYIT]

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Your thoughts?

Israel will be whatever her citizens make her. Your concern?

Citizens or nationals?

"Peratis and J.J. Goldberg, an editor-at-large for the Jewish Daily Forward, argued that Israel was indeed a democracy--within the Green Line--though it was a flawed one."

Jews currently control all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.
All Jews living on that land have a right to vote in Israeli elections.
The majority of all Arabs living on the same land do not.
Your solution?

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Israel will be whatever her CITIZENS make her. It is up to them to find just solutions to their problems. Thanks for playing.

 

[georgephillip]

"Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?”

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

 

[Lipush]

The fact that Israelis can yell how Israel is not a democracy, without being sent to prison, shows exactly how much democratiic Israel truely is.

 

[georgephillip]

"Another revealing moment came during the question and answer session. Dorothy Zellner, a long-time civil rights activist and member of Jews Say No!, questioned Goldberg and Peratis sharply: is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy?

"Peratis was honest on this front. 'I really don’t have an answer to that question...I’m struggling with it.'

"Peratis said that she wants to 'maintain a Jewish majority'-- as an essential element of the Zionist vision.

"But she struggled with how to reconcile that position with her values in favor of democracy and equality.

"For Goldberg’s part, he said that many democracies around the world have a predominant ethnic majority."

Arabs living under Jewish law don't seem to be quite as equal as Jews living under the same laws.

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

 

[varelse]

Like Napoleon, much of the Zionist leadership soon revealed itself to be no different than that they claim to oppose. Israel, embracing the Zionist vision of ethnic nationalism, complete with oppression and a campaign of ethnic cleansing, is fundamentally no different in principle than what the Jews decried in Germany. They are back to their old habits, just like they did the first time they invaded, when the land was called Canaan.

Zionists believe in a democracy in the same way as segregationists and anti-suffragists did- they believe in democracy for those they believe should have a say and agree with their views, opposing equal universal representation which would include those they don't feel should have their voices heard or who would oppose their views and agenda.

I'm reminded of the 'Voter Colonel' who 'purifies democracy' in a certain Red Dwarf episode.

 

[Hossfly]

Like Napoleon, much of the Zionist leadership soon revealed itself to be no different than that they claim to oppose. Israel, embracing the Zionist vision of ethnic nationalism, complete with oppression and a campaign of ethnic cleansing, is fundamentally no different in principle than what the Jews decried in Germany. They are back to their old habits, just like they did the first time they invaded, when the land was called Canaan.

Zionists believe in a democracy in the same way as segregationists and anti-suffragists did- they believe in democracy for those they believe should have a say and agree with their views, opposing equal universal representation which would include those they don't feel should have their voices heard or who would oppose their views and agenda.

I'm reminded of the 'Voter Colonel' who 'purifies democracy' in a certain Red Dwarf episode.

Don't you have somevarelse to be? Such as your Sunday morning Bund meeting?
Today's subject is: Goose Stepping In Dog Shit.

 

[georgephillip]

Like Napoleon, much of the Zionist leadership soon revealed itself to be no different than that they claim to oppose. Israel, embracing the Zionist vision of ethnic nationalism, complete with oppression and a campaign of ethnic cleansing, is fundamentally no different in principle than what the Jews decried in Germany. They are back to their old habits, just like they did the first time they invaded, when the land was called Canaan.

Zionists believe in a democracy in the same way as segregationists and anti-suffragists did- they believe in democracy for those they believe should have a say and agree with their views, opposing equal universal representation which would include those they don't feel should have their voices heard or who would oppose their views and agenda.

I'm reminded of the 'Voter Colonel' who 'purifies democracy' in a certain Red Dwarf episode.

Don't you have somevarelse to be? Such as your Sunday morning Bund meeting?
Today's subject is: Goose Stepping In Dog Shit.

"'Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?'”

 

[Hossfly]

Like Napoleon, much of the Zionist leadership soon revealed itself to be no different than that they claim to oppose. Israel, embracing the Zionist vision of ethnic nationalism, complete with oppression and a campaign of ethnic cleansing, is fundamentally no different in principle than what the Jews decried in Germany. They are back to their old habits, just like they did the first time they invaded, when the land was called Canaan.

Zionists believe in a democracy in the same way as segregationists and anti-suffragists did- they believe in democracy for those they believe should have a say and agree with their views, opposing equal universal representation which would include those they don't feel should have their voices heard or who would oppose their views and agenda.

I'm reminded of the 'Voter Colonel' who 'purifies democracy' in a certain Red Dwarf episode.

Don't you have somevarelse to be? Such as your Sunday morning Bund meeting?
Today's subject is: Goose Stepping In Dog Shit.

"'Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?'”

You do know about the "bear in the woods" analogy, don't you,sweetness?

 

[georgephillip]

Can you stay on THIS topic, Hossie?

"Another revealing moment came during the question and answer session. Dorothy Zellner, a long-time civil rights activist and member of Jews Say No!, questioned Goldberg and Peratis sharply: is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy?

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

 

[Hossfly]

Can you stay on THIS topic, Hossie?

"Another revealing moment came during the question and answer session. Dorothy Zellner, a long-time civil rights activist and member of Jews Say No!, questioned Goldberg and Peratis sharply: is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy?

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Absolutement,Trollerollie. You axked me did I bewieve on the toof faiwy and I said I did and you said..........

 

[georgephillip]

Can you stay on THIS topic, Hossie?

"Another revealing moment came during the question and answer session. Dorothy Zellner, a long-time civil rights activist and member of Jews Say No!, questioned Goldberg and Peratis sharply: is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy?

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Absolutement,Trollerollie. You axked me did I bewieve on the toof faiwy and I said I did and you said..........

Is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and a democracy?

 

[Hossfly]

Can you stay on THIS topic, Hossie?

"Another revealing moment came during the question and answer session. Dorothy Zellner, a long-time civil rights activist and member of Jews Say No!, questioned Goldberg and Peratis sharply: is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy?

Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

Absolutement,Trollerollie. You axked me did I bewieve on the toof faiwy and I said I did and you said..........

Is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and a democracy?

How come, Georgie Boy, there are Arab journalists who say that the Arabs in Israel have it much better than the Arabs in Muslim countries, and you keep on obsessing over Israel as being so terrible? Are you also obsessed over the Muslim countries who actually treat all the non Muslims living there unequal to a Muslim? Perhaps you close your eyes to these inequities since no Jews are involved.

 

[georgephillip]

The contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy is just as obvious in Saudi Arabia as it is in Israel to me, Hoss. What's your problem with holding Jews to the same standards as the rest of the world?

 

[irosie91]

The contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy is just as obvious in Saudi Arabia as it is in Israel to me, Hoss. What's your problem with holding Jews to the same standards as the rest of the world?

to what "standards" are you referring georgie? to which the rest of the
world is held but JOOOOOS are not?

 

[Intense]

Like Napoleon, much of the Zionist leadership soon revealed itself to be no different than that they claim to oppose. Israel, embracing the Zionist vision of ethnic nationalism, complete with oppression and a campaign of ethnic cleansing, is fundamentally no different in principle than what the Jews decried in Germany. They are back to their old habits, just like they did the first time they invaded, when the land was called Canaan.

Zionists believe in a democracy in the same way as segregationists and anti-suffragists did- they believe in democracy for those they believe should have a say and agree with their views, opposing equal universal representation which would include those they don't feel should have their voices heard or who would oppose their views and agenda.

I'm reminded of the 'Voter Colonel' who 'purifies democracy' in a certain Red Dwarf episode.

Funny. That reminds me of Human Nature. The World is not perfect. The struggle begins internally.