Jesus was a liberal? & Thou Shalt Not Kill

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
If you think that not eating meat including fish is some sort of a religious superstition then you are wrong.

It is an act of morality, I clear my conscience by not killing and eating the animals. Don't tell me you don't kill them... you do because you are the reason for them to kill and sell that to you. We have a tendency to think that everything is ours. Everything can be used for our pleasure, such demonic mentality is the reason for this mess. Also, the statements that I make are not for self aggrandizement, I make them because I believe in them and practice them to some extent.
Also, I am not leaving this forum because some one else has a different point of view, that is completely stupid. I only came here for some amusement, I am leaving this forum because this is just an unnecessary waste of my time.
Thank you all for your posts (atleast the good ones).

Bye.

Just got this message now, I was busy getting me a bloody Whopper from BK and washing it down with them little containers of milk - probably from baby cows!

Believe what you want, preach what you want, more for me! With any luck, in time, people like you will decide that water and air are too precious to waste as well.

Bye! :finger:

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
If you think that not eating meat including fish is some sort of a religious superstition then you are wrong.

It is an act of morality, I clear my conscience by not killing and eating the animals. Don't tell me you don't kill them... you do because you are the reason for them to kill and sell that to you. We have a tendency to think that everything is ours. Everything can be used for our pleasure, such demonic mentality is the reason for this mess. Also, the statements that I make are not for self aggrandizement, I make them because I believe in them and practice them to some extent.
Also, I am not leaving this forum because some one else has a different point of view, that is completely stupid. I only came here for some amusement, I am leaving this forum because this is just an unnecessary waste of my time.
Thank you all for your posts (atleast the good ones).

Bye.

Spirit Soul,

I'm glad that your conscience is clear. However, I think it's plain that everyone else's conscience is clear while eating meat/pork/fish/veal/milk.
Sorry that you feel you have to leave.

Jeff

 

[5stringJeff]

So... who's up for some veal parmegian (sp?) at Olive Garden? Maybe afterwards we can go get a milkshake?

Sorry... couldn't resist.

 

[janeeng]

Bad boy Jeff!

Well, I tried to understand all this, but I don't get it, she claims that we shouldn't kill to eat? ok, not that I could ever work in a slaughter house, or kill myself, I know there are sicko's out there that do it for us, but you mean to tell me that the lord upstairs didn't put this on the land for us to eat? I am sorry that the cow is sacred to some religions, but to others, it's not, so why knock them for eating eat? it's a freedom of CHOICE, you want to eat COW, eat it, you don't, then don't.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Reread my post again please janeeng, the reason you don't eat cows, fish, goats, cats and dogs because they too are animals and they too get hurt if you hurt them. it has nothing to do with religion.

They were not put on this planet for you to eat, some of these things existed before we were here and they had their purposes as well. Again , I say this by making it very clear in bold characters If you can survive and live with eating plants and grain etc. and when you don't have to kill/eat animals, why should you eat animals? for pleasure?

If you think of "The lord" so much then why can't you realize that the same "lord" is both the "lord" of you, me, as well as for cows dogs, cats , giraffes...

The point here is compassion. You may not realize this for a long time, but I hope you will sometime. This is not about religion it is about morality and realization of the truth.

If you think the guy who mercilessly kills the cows /pigs/chickens for you to eat is a "sicko" how about the person who eats it? (Sorry, I had to make it such an offensive statement)

You may think that calves/piglets coming out of the cows/pigs are just the extra tender meat sent to you as a gift from God, but in reality they are too living beings. They also have THE FREEDOM to live a happy life, what about their freedom ? why do they have to end up on your plate? I guess you don't realize what they do to live calves to make them "tender". How would you feel if your baby was tied up and stretched and tortured and killed while you were enslaved, used and mutated by unnatural amounts of hormones which make you into some unnatural mutated creature for some other creature's pleasure?

Jimnyc, no one talked about air and water. The fact is when you cannot avoid killing things then okay, but when you can avoid killing things then why kill them for your pleasure?

Also Jimnyc, if you cannot face my arguement properly, then please refrain from commenting on my words, doing so just shows lack of competence and comprehension.

Thank you, I wish you a very good life.

 

[janeeng]

Sorry, but I am not into eating plants! and I brought up religion being it is some of religions that don't eat meat because of that! I understood what you said, and I don't agree with it, but that's what this is all about - some agree some don't! I just happen not to agree!

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by janeeng
Sorry, but I am not into eating plants! and I brought up religion being it is some of religions that don't eat meat because of that! I understood what you said, and I don't agree with it, but that's what this is all about - some agree some don't! I just happen not to agree!

The truth remains the truth whether you agree with it or not.

 

[janeeng]

Whatever floats your boat!

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by janeeng
Whatever floats your boat!

hmm, I wish it was so easy to ignore. Anyway, please go by your merry way I am out for now byeeeeee


may be i will come back in the future but for now....

 

[jimnyc]

Also Jimnyc, if you cannot face my arguement properly, then please refrain from commenting on my words, doing so just shows lack of competence and comprehension.

Tough shit, my "demonic mentality" forces me to reply. You can take your beliefs and shove them up your ass. You can believe whatever the hell you like, but you are crossing the line when you tell me what I do is wrong and "demonic".

The truth remains the truth whether you agree with it or not.

The truth is that your sacred cow is my favorite meal. You do whatever you please, but I'll throw that bastard on my grill and not bat an eye.

 

[janeeng]

I will stay! I don't have to run away! If I don't like what I hear, doesn't make me leave!!!!

 

[Jackass]

They were not put on this planet for you to eat, some of these things existed before we were here and they had their purposes as well.

I guess you had a conversation with God and he told you this??

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
The truth remains the truth whether you agree with it or not.

Now wait a minute... you were just talking about moral relativism before! Have you given up on that?

And if so, where do you get the 'truth' that animals have equal rights with humans?

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Tough shit, my "demonic mentality" forces me to reply. You can take your beliefs and shove them up your ass. You can believe whatever the hell you like, but you are crossing the line when you tell me what I do is wrong and "demonic".



The truth is that your sacred cow is my favorite meal. You do whatever you please, but I'll throw that bastard on my grill and not bat an eye.

"Tough shit". Is it? You like to eat it, so you would destroy the cow's life to just eat it and feel good for a day? A cow lives about 20 years. So, the destruction of its lifetime is nothing to you?

If you can kill animals for your pleasure, then why can't you kill humans? for your pleasure? Humans are also animals. Answer this dear jimnyc.

We too have pain receptors and so do they. We bleed and so do they and just because they are less intelligent does not mean we can kill dogs, cats, whatever they may be...

If they being less intelligent and their body being tasty justifies eating them, then why don't you just kill a mentally retarded human being ?

Sigh, it pains me to see that these questions are not answerable. They never are. It is not selfishness that gives you true happiness. You may kill and eat things all your lifetime and get minute pleasure, but it is a demonic life of self aggrandizement, power rides and destruction.

If making varieties of dishes from the destruction of lives is a more civilized way to live, then I am sorry I am part of it.

You may bash my comments as being religious, too idealistic or just plain "what a stupid way to think" and you may live in denial... but the truth remains the truth and will remain the truth forever.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Now wait a minute... you were just talking about moral relativism before! Have you given up on that?

And if so, where do you get the 'truth' that animals have equal rights with humans?

To be honest, I get it from reading philosophical books of eastern writers.
One good one is from Raja Ramohan Roy...and the most recent ones are written by chinmayananda. I also read western writers, mostly on social issues, one good one is Rereading America.

I am also very theosophically inclined. I get the idea of killing is wrong from Srila prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita and my own speculation.

Right is not something that exists for a certain group. 'Right' is something that exists for every being, when you take away the freedom for life, then the concept of 'rights' emerge.

In truth every one was unaware of rights, until they were perceived and spread through out to protect them from subjugation(This was in european age of enlightenment) . However, such concepts were predominant in the asian continent, with buddhists as well as the hindus shintos taos etc.


There are no "rights" in reality. 'Rights' is just a perceived notion- this I got out of my own mental speculation.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by Jackass
They were not put on this planet for you to eat, some of these things existed before we were here and they had their purposes as well.

I guess you had a conversation with God and he told you this??

Get some intelligence.

 

[jimnyc]

In response to Jackass, Spirit_Soul wrote:

Get some intelligence.

You read a book and take it for gospel, then come here and expect us to have the same beliefs as you, and you have the nerve to insult someone else's intelligence? LOL

"Tough shit". Is it? You like to eat it, so you would destroy the cow's life to just eat it and feel good for a day? A cow lives about 20 years. So, the destruction of its lifetime is nothing to you?

Absolutely nothing! Sorry!

If you can kill animals for your pleasure, then why can't you kill humans? for your pleasure? Humans are also animals. Answer this dear jimnyc.

One is legal, one is not. If I could, I would, as I have plenty of "human" candidates that I feel deserve to die.

We too have pain receptors and so do they. We bleed and so do they and just because they are less intelligent does not mean we can kill dogs, cats, whatever they may be...

I'm eating a McDonald's cheeseburger right now, and I feel no pain! Do you lecture a dog when it eats a cat? Do you lecture a cat when it eats a mouse? Do you lecture a fish when it eats a small crab? If you don't, why not?

If they being less intelligent and their body being tasty justifies eating them, then why don't you just kill a mentally retarded human being ?

Do they taste like hamburger?

Sigh, it pains me to see that these questions are not answerable. They never are. It is not selfishness that gives you true happiness. You may kill and eat things all your lifetime and get minute pleasure, but it is a demonic life of self aggrandizement, power rides and destruction.

And I think people with beliefs such as yours need to be institutionalized.

You may bash my comments as being religious, too idealistic or just plain "what a stupid way to think" and you may live in denial... but the truth remains the truth and will remain the truth forever.

Yes, and the truth is that cows will be eaten for eternity. Deal with it and stop your damn preaching!

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
Right is not something that exists for a certain group. 'Right' is something that exists for every being, when you take away the freedom for life, then the concept of 'rights' emerge.
In truth every one was unaware of rights, until they were perceived and spread through out to protect them from subjugation (This was in european age of enlightenment) . However, such concepts were predominant in the asian continent, with buddhists as well as the hindus shintos taos etc.
There are no "rights" in reality. 'Rights' is just a perceived notion- this I got out of my own mental speculation.

So rights exist for every being, though no being knew about them until recently, but they really don't exist... I think you need to quit reading Zen!

As far as animal rights... when an animal is able to assert its own rights, then maybe I'll listen. But what about animals eating other animals - is that wrong? And if so, will you tell them?

Maybe you should read the Declaration of Independence... where it talks about all humans being endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
So rights exist for every being, though no being knew about them until recently, but they really don't exist... I think you need to quit reading Zen!

As far as animal rights... when an animal is able to assert its own rights, then maybe I'll listen. But what about animals eating other animals - is that wrong? And if so, will you tell them?

Maybe you should read the Declaration of Independence... where it talks about all humans being endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You have an ability that comes with responsibility. We have the power to have some morality. More over, we are omnivorous, civilized and can think and realize what we are doing is either right or wrong.

The animals cannot, the ones that eat meat are called carnivorous, they are made to eat meat, they cannot help it and do not have the capability to understand.

You and me and Jimnyc overthere have the intelligence, we can comprehend and see the truth. For us, it is a matter of willing to see the truth or ignoring it and living in denial.

Like eric here was saying in the other post, responsibility is not something you should ignore.

 

[janeeng]

This is such a bizarre piece of crap! I don't do the killing to eat, others will do it, thank you! No, I don't like the idea that an animal dies for us to eat! but sorry, like I said, I am not really in to eating plants! And where do you come to be the one who will decide what's right and what's wrong. If eating meat and killing a cow is WRONG, then why is that it's done all over the world? I would have no problem killing a human if it came to defend myself or my children, so that answers your question on that. There are a lot of vegetarians out there, that eat fish and some chicken, what would you say to them for eating fish? I don't think eating plants is the most healthiest either.