Jesus was a liberal? & Thou Shalt Not Kill

[eric]

Bry, this is a serious question. Are you an atheist or an agnostic?

 

[Bry]

I appreciate the seriousness of your question, and frankly it's not easy to answer. It's not that I'm absolutely convinced that there is no God, which I think is the definition of an Atheist. I certainly can't prove that God doesn't exist, any more than I can be convinced that he does (at least by any human argument.) He would probably have to come down here himself and slap me around a bit to convince me of his existence. At any rate, the concept of God has no bearing whatsoever on my life views or my behavior. In other words, I don't much care if God exists or not. I hope that answers your question somewhat.

 

[eric]

Yes Bry, and thank you for the serious reply. This is a touchy subject with many people. It would be interesting to start a thread on this subject, and not inject a bunch of scripture either, but rather base our discussions on science and logic. It is a commonly misheld conception that science and god do not mix, I for one have found this to be a falicy. When we delve into elementary particle physics, quantum mechanics, string theory, and cosmology, just to name a few, I think they raise more questions about the existence of an intelligent organization to this and other universes, than they disprove. Any thoughts?

 

[Bry]

Yeah, actually, and I agree that science presents us with more seeming miracles than it has disproven. I don't think science is incompatible with religion, just because religion has proven to be so maleable. There is a radio program here in Spain that actually dedicates itself to discussing the unsolved mysteries of history and science, and i find it all thoroughly fascinating. Many scientists, for example, are now saying that the chemical structure of DNA simply could not have arrisen from the mythical elemental soup that is one dominant theory of our beginnings. Does that necessarily ask the question of God? Not for me, at least not on any substantive level. Of all the possible Gods, I am partial to the idea of God with a petri dish: that the universe is nothing but an impartial and objectively conducted science experiment. He threw all the ingredients together, shook it up, and let it go, and now his participation is limited to at most the occasional observation and note taking. But obviously, I don't "believe" that version either, it just seems that if there is a god, that would make the most tidy accounting.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Ahh... good ol' moral relativism!

While we may debate which set of morals are true/right/correct, moral absolutes do indeed exist.

So how far should one be able to stretch moral relativism? Can we say that it's OK for me to rape someone, or to steal from someone... that's cool for me? Obviously not. Individuial moral relativism, as we can see by this example, is not viable.

What about cultural moral relativism? In other words, if the majority of the people in a society believe that a certain action is moral or immoral, then it becomes so.
The obvious case is Nazi Germany's systematic murder of Jews, communists, homosexuals, etc...

Fact: Morals even though they only are developed through cultural influence exist to maintain harmony in the society. You have to agree with me on this point.

My opinion: Ofcourse the morals are needed to have certain balance and sanity in the society but we should not take them to such an extreme that they start disrupting the very sanity of the public.

You may say that the moral values of the majority dominate thus making all the individuals subordinate to those values whether they like them or not. But If that were an absolute law in this universe then we could say that there wouldn't be an independent state of America, you would still be "british" and I would be somewhere bound to my dead spouse and burned alive in India.

The sincere maintainence of the subordination results in a mob rule, not a democracy.

I am not saying that let the murderers murder and rapers rape, and we should not even go there because they are the extremities of this issue. The problem arises when the freedom of certain individuals is threatened with out them harming anyone and due to something which they cannot control(sexual orientation).

Today, the homosexuals while practicing their own sexual orientation do not cause any sort of damage externally to any one. If they are taking health risks it is limited to themselves and not to other people. How can you compare a horrible experience such as rape to homosexuality? Please explain this to me.

After some thought I kind of see what you mean, which is that homosexuals may threaten natural orientation of kids by being wrong examples to look at, but that is a whole different issue. Because that involves issues like homosexual couples adoption etc. which ofcourse is somewhat disturbing to hear.

Anyway, the point is this : Homosexuals are not hurting anyone, leave them alone.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by Jackass
A vegan!!! How come this doesnt surprise me?? MMMmmm nothing like a rare steak, with blood pooling in the bottom of the plate and a nice cold glass of milk from a slave cow!! No, not a regular cow...a slave cow's milk is much sweeter!!

Yea, I am sure you are dying to eat/drink that stuff as I show you my movie "Ruthless slaughter houses of America" .

$30 value, but I am willing to send it to you for free, just make sure you get your blood pooling plate and the slave cow milk ready before watching. :cof:

And if that does not do it for you, you can ask janeeng or jimncy for help, I am sure they treasure those camping trip pictures of your very memorable campouts.

 

[Spirit_Soul]

Originally posted by Bry
I don't much care if God exists or not. I hope that answers your question somewhat.

Actually no one does, they just think they care and make a big fuss about it.

That is why the statement, "You, me, and the rest of the people here or anywhere are no better than lesbians and gays" is absolutely right.

 

[Dan]

It would be interesting to start a thread on this subject, and not inject a bunch of scripture either, but rather base our discussions on science and logic.

I second this. This is something that really interests me right now.

 

[Bry]

"Actually no one does, they just think they care and make a big fuss about it.

That is why the statement, "You, me, and the rest of the people here or anywhere are no better than lesbians and gays" is absolutely right."

I think it is a little more complicated than that, though I certainly agree that lesbians and gays are no worse than we are. I would even say that being gay should not be thought of as a compulsion, even though there is evidence that it is in most cases. For me, though, it's no different if someone chooses to be gay than if their biology required it of them. People use religion, in many cases it seems, to justify their feelings of superiority. On the other hand, I think it is not necessary for someone to resort to religious arguments to justify bigotry, that just happens to be the easiest route.

With jeff, though, he has already said (correct me if I am wrong) that he does not consider gays to be less than anyone else. He seems to conduct his religious beliefs in a way that is very respectful of those who do not agree, which is to be commended. The idea of sin, as concrete as it may be for jeff, seems to effect us all equally. So jeff and I (and you, Spirit Soul), in effect, justify the same position but from different directions: while I would say that sin does not exist, and so we are equal, jeff seems to be saying we are all equally sinners, and therfore bear an equal share of guilt, and therefore gays are no worse than anyone else.

 

[jimnyc]

Ok, who wants to start the new thread then? This has been interesting reading and good posts by all.

I'm not very knowledgeable in this area myself.

 

[janeeng]

Might as well go for it Jim, could be interesting and bring some insight.

 

[Jackass]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
Yea, I am sure you are dying to eat/drink that stuff as I show you my movie "Ruthless slaughter houses of America" .

$30 value, but I am willing to send it to you for free, just make sure you get your blood pooling plate and the slave cow milk ready before watching. :cof:

And if that does not do it for you, you can ask janeeng or jimncy for help, I am sure they treasure those camping trip pictures of your very memorable campouts.

If you think it will do any good feel free! I drink about 4 or 5 tall glasses of mild everyday.

Not sure if I follow you about Janeen and Jim though.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Spirit_Soul
Yea, I am sure you are dying to eat/drink that stuff as I show you my movie "Ruthless slaughter houses of America" .

$30 value, but I am willing to send it to you for free, just make sure you get your blood pooling plate and the slave cow milk ready before watching. :cof:

And if that does not do it for you, you can ask janeeng or jimncy for help, I am sure they treasure those camping trip pictures of your very memorable campouts.

Just to clarify: You do realize the 'pictures of Jackass' posted in the pictures forum were NOT him, don't you? They were supposed to be humorous. I've never been camping with him, thank God!

 

[janeeng]

hahaha, I am not too sure I follow that statement either about me and Jim camping!!

Fill us in Spirit!!!!!!

 

[janeeng]

Ah, thanks Jim, I guess that's what she meant! hahahaha! I have never been camping with Jackass either, Jim yes, but damn, I think Jim is right, a scary thought to have Jackass along! hahaha

 

[Jackass]

You 2 should be so honored to have me along!!

I think I missed these pictures!! LOL

 

[janeeng]

Honored??? just about as good as CVS, I was so honored then too, when the poor kid pulled at his mommy's shirt and saying "look mommy, that guy is pickin his nose" hahahahaha! you nearly had the ambulance coming for you that night!

I can only imagine what a camping trip would be like! Then again, maybe we should do it.

 

[Jackass]

Oh please..that is the night you fell in love with me!!! LOL LOL
You loved every minute of it!!

Camping trip is a definate!! I hear Spirit_Soul is supplying the beef!! LOL

 

[janeeng]

LOL!!!! we going to have a COW ROAST!

Yeah, maybe we should get something like that going.

 

[Jackass]

We should plan it for this upcoming spring. Hopefully I will be home by then!