Jerry Falwell just died

[Shogun]

why?

um.. so as to not become the flip side of the same coin? do you want to make the same noise as the right will when castro dies? george soros? ward churchill?

 

[Superlative]

come on, dude.. we dont gas anyone this side of ww1. The US has it's faults but we are no villainous tirant even if the rhetoric sounds appleaing. it is a little much and, even if true, is only applicable every 4 year electoral cycle that actually represents your fellow Americans more than it does any single leader, eh? Arent you glad that republican ponys like Falwells don't retain power in the same fashion as Saddam?

So a historic collection of educated white men all committing atrocitities is better than one?

It seems like an elected elite number of people being evil and uncaring, is worse than just one.


Lets look at Nixon.

1969-1973
During the administration of US President Richard Nixon, and under the counsel of his advisor for National Security Affairs Henry Kissinger, the United States drops more than two million tons of bombs on Laos during more than 500,000 bombing missions

—exceeding what it had dropped on Germany and Japan during all of World War II

—in an effort to defeat the left-leaning Pathet Lao and to destroy North Vietnamese supply lines.

The ordnance includes some 90 million cluster bombs, 20-30 percent of which do not detonate (see After 1973).

A Senate report finds: “The United States has undertaken a large-scale air war over Laos to destroy the physical and social infrastructure of Pathet Lao held areas and to interdict North Vietnamese infiltration… throughout all this there has been a policy of subterfuge and secrecy… through such things as saturation bombing and the forced evacuation of population from enemy held or threatened areas

—we have helped to create untold agony for hundreds of thousands of villagers.” And in 1970, Far Eastern Economic Review reports: “For the past two years the US has carried out one of the most sustained bombing campaigns in history against essentially civilian targets in northeastern Laos…. Operating from Thai bases and from aircraft carriers, American jets have destroyed the great majority of villages and towns in the northeast.

Severe casualties have been inflicted upon the inhabitants… Refugees from the Plain of Jars report they were bombed almost daily by American jets last year.

They say they spent most of the past two years living in caves or holes.” [Blum, 1995; BBC, 1/5/2001; Stars and Stripes, 7/21/2002; BBC, 12/6/2005] Meo villagers who attempt neutrality or refuse to send their 13-year-olds to fight in the CIA’s army, are refused American-supplied rice and “ultimately bombed by the US Air Force.”

[Blum, 1995] The CIA also drops millions of dollars in forged Pathet Lao currency in an attempt to destabilize the Lao economy. [Blum, 1995] During this period, the existence of US operations in Laos is outright denied.
[Blum, 1995; Stars and Stripes, 7/21/2002]
Entity Tags: Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard Nixon, US Congress
Timeline Tags: US-Laos (1958-1973)

Ural Alexis Johnson - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._Alexis_Johnson
“[The Laos operation] is something of which we can be proud as Americans It has involved virtually no American casualties. What we are getting for our money there… is, I think, to use the old phrase, very cost effective.” — 1971 [Blum, 1995]

Fred Branfman - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Branfman
“… village after village was leveled, countless people buried alive by high explosives, or burnt alive by napalm and white phosphorous, or riddled by anti-personnel bomb pellets.” — 1996 [Blum, 1995]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=richard_nixon

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=cambodia

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4444638.stm

 

[Shogun]

I would invite you to take a look at the history of every OTHER nation at similar times and feel free to emmigrate to whichever one makes you feel like leaving a slugtrail. Like ive said... the US isn't innocent..


but pretending that the gem of democracy in the 20th century is somehow less benevolent than a strong arm dictator pretty much robs you of credibility this side of the far left. any which way you wrap it up, I garenfuckingtee youd rather live in a nation under richard nixon than saddam... call me crazy..

ps..

I assure you that the left produces nutjobs just as easily as the far right. demonizing the US in order to rationalize the happy dance the day falwell died pretty much illustrates that point.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

why?

um.. so as to not become the flip side of the same coin? do you want to make the same noise as the right will when castro dies? george soros? ward churchill?

Pretty much. I had a pretty big smile when Zarqawi got owned. And I've already said I'll be laughing when Fred Phelps dies. I'll be celebrating Osama's death as well. But I guess when they do finally die, I'll expect you to be consistent and jump into the "Osama can burn in hell" thread and start the finger wagging.

 

[Shogun]

like I said.. ignore me and dig your own hole.. im not responsible for your credibility.


shit.. IM not the person who will be regarded as just another micheal moore loving sheehanite hypocrite the next time the pendelum swings the other way...



enjoy your happy dance.. grab a pair of maracas and get your party on.

 

[Superlative]

I would invite you to take a look at the history of every OTHER nation at similar times and feel free to emmigrate to whichever one makes you feel like leaving a slugtrail. Like ive said... the US isn't innocent..

As long as you're aware. I appreciate it.

but pretending that the gem of democracy in the 20th century is somehow less benevolent than a strong arm dictator pretty much robs you of credibility this side of the far left. any which way you wrap it up, I garenfuckingtee youd rather live in a nation under richard nixon than saddam... call me crazy..

True, because Nixon bombed OTHER countries, not his own. That is the main difference,
and the minor difference, - that Saddam wasnt acting under the guise of spreading democracy and freedom.
He was excercising control. Uncondonable, and horrible, but no less devastating than Nixon.

ps..

I assure you that the left produces nutjobs just as easily as the far right. demonizing the US in order to rationalize the happy dance the day falwell died pretty much illustrates that point.

This isnt realy that nutjob, google Nixon and Cambodia, you will find some good stuff. But I guess you dont have the time or the patience to
"relearn" American History.

Im not illustrating a 'happy point'.

Just refuting your quote that "we dont gas anyone this side of ww1."

We just use bombs and more bombs.

But Nixon gets a pass by the American people, and is regarded as far greater a man than Saddam.

But that is neither here nor there.

It has little or nothing to do with this thread, we can talk elsewhere if you like, im game.

movin on'

 

[Dirt McGirt]

like I said.. ignore me and dig your own hole.. im not responsible for your credibility.


shit.. IM not the person who will be regarded as just another micheal moore loving sheehanite hypocrite the next time the pendelum swings the other way...



enjoy your happy dance.. grab a pair of maracas and get your party on.

I haven't dug any holes and I haven't resorted to any personal attacks on Falwell. But saying that you're glad or sad that Falwell is dead and explaining why you hate or like him is pretty much the purpose of a message board.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

Great. Yet another thread turns into a "It's all about ME" fest! Thanks Red State...you fucking tosser....

This is the same guy who says Osama Bin Laden might be right and told OCA to throw a flag over Jillian's face, bend her over, and do her for Old Glory. His moral authority ranks about the same as Ted Haggard's.

 

[maineman]

This is the same guy who says Osama Bin Laden might be right and told OCA to throw a flag over Jillian's face, bend her over, and do her for Old Glory. His moral authority ranks about the same as Ted Haggard's.

who said that about Jillian, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Dirt McGirt]

who said that about Jillian, if you don't mind me asking?

Red States Rule.

 

[Superlative]

Red States Rule.

Got a link?

 

[Dirt McGirt]

Got a link?

Post #9 in the "Jillian" thread in taunting arena.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=534491&postcount=9

 

[Vintij]

It funny how he acts like the moral one, or the classy one. Clearly he is not.

 

[Superlative]

It funny how he acts like the moral one, or the classy one. Clearly he is not.

He acts any way he has to, to get people to agree with him, or think he is 'cool' as long as they arent Liberals.

I personally would love to sit down with RSR, and discuss politics face to face with him, and record it.

His head would explode if he had to use his own words and not Op-Eds to defend his standpoint.

Id post it on YouTube, and Id follow him around to every message board and show it to people.

And no one would talk to him ever again.

sadly.

 

[maineman]

He acts any way he has to, to get people to agree with him, or think he is 'cool' as long as they arent Liberals.

I personally would love to sit down with RSR, and discuss politics face to face with him, and record it.

His head would explode if he had to use his own words and not Op-Eds to defend his standpoint.

Id post it on YouTube, and Id follow him around to every message board and show it to people.

And no one would talk to him ever again.

sadly.

quite frankly, he may be the most obstinate, obtuse, inarticulate person I have ever attempted to communicate with in my life. He nearly always relies on the words of others to make his points for him, and on those rare occasions when he does try to compose some thought in his own words, he steps on his dick..and then, when called on the misstep, he absolutely refuses to ever admit he spoke in error.

Part of me wants to put him on permanent ignore because of all that.... but, sadly, part of me wants to keep stomping on his stupidity and exposing his idiocy for all to see. Afterwards, though, I do feel akin to a schoolyard bully who has just kicked a blind retarded kid.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

This article illustrates the open discussion that I was trying to hint at earlier.

----------------------------------------
Falwell's legacy: faith, hate or Teletubbies?
POSTED: 8:41 a.m. EDT, May 16, 2007
By Jonathan Mandell

(CNN) -- "When I have children one day," Samantha Krieger of Dallas, Texas, wrote to CNN.com, "they will know of the legacy that Dr. Jerry Falwell left."

But what will that legacy be?

To Krieger, who had personal connections to Falwell -- she attended the college he founded; he officiated at her wedding; her husband was his nurse -- the evangelist "was a great leader and hero."

Victoria Kidd of Winchester, Virginia, believes the exact opposite: "The damage he has done to the Christian faith is immeasurable," she wrote to CNN.com

Others would prefer to think that he has no legacy at all.

"He should be erased from every history book and media story," wrote Brian Pippinger of St. Petersburg, Florida.

Jerry Falwell was the evangelical minister who founded the Moral Majority, the Christian right political movement, in 1980. He died Tuesday at age 73, and it's clear from the differing assessments of his legacy that he was a controversial figure.

Matt Foreman, head of the National Lesbian and Gay Task Force, calls Falwell "a founder and leader of America's anti-gay industry. His lasting legacy will be the polarization of the American electorate and the rise of Christian evangelicals as a political force in American politics."

Gene Mims, a trustee of Liberty University, which Falwell founded as Lynchburg Baptist College in 1971, says he "pulled us all towards faith." More narrowly, Mims says that Falwell's founding of the university will be his specific, lasting legacy. "For the past 10 years, that was his focus."

That seems to be what the Rev. Billy Graham believes, as well. "His accomplishments went beyond most clergy of his generation," Graham said in a statement. "Some of my grandchildren have attended, and are attending, Liberty University. "

Susan Friend Harding, a professor of anthropology at the University of California Santa Cruz, studied Falwell and his movement beginning in the 1980s, culminating in a book published in 2000, "The Book of Jerry Falwell: Fundamentalist Language and Politics."

"I see him as a major figure in American political and religious history," says Harding, who considers him the principal leader who brought fundamentalists back into the mainstream of society. "Jerry Falwell led fundamentalism out of political and cultural exile in the 1980s. He did so most famously as the leader of the Moral Majority in 1980s, but also through his national radio and TV ministry, Liberty University and countless sermons, campaigns, rallies, speeches, publications, broadcasts and debates over his 50-year career as a preacher. Under his leadership, fundamentalists transformed themselves from a marginal, anti-worldly separatist people into a visible and vocal force and reintroduced vigorous religious speech into American public life.

"Fundamentalists had been a separatist movement," Harding says, "which was stigmatized even by other Protestants" for three-quarters of a century, ever since their "self-imposed exile" after the Scopes Monkey Trial of 1925, which was ostensibly about the teaching of evolution in the schools, but in effect put fundamentalist intolerance on trial. "Falwell openly and actively disavowed the separatism."

Before Falwell, in the world of fundamentalist evangelicals, Harding says, "being a minister or a missionary was the highest calling. Now it's to be a Supreme Court justice, or the president of the United States. Or a lawyer, doctor, corporate executive, journalist, filmmaker, you name it. It even means being a teacher -- including of biology -- in all the school systems."

Falwell helped break down the walls of the separatism in many ways. "True fundamentalists didn't have friendships, even with other fundamentalists who associated with non-fundamentalists," Harding says. "Falwell said this was wrong; we're going to stop having religious tests. He included you if you supported his agenda -- an agenda that involved attacking other groups."

To many critics, this paradox is what makes his legacy so lamentable. "He made it comfortable for churches to get actively involved in politics," says the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. "His strategy will be continued by his would-be successors -- a focus on hot-button issues like gay marriage (rather than significant moral issues like child poverty and health care), and an eagerness to make outrageous statements to the media, in order to build a religious-political empire."

Many now remember him most for outrageous statements he made after leaving the Moral Majority -- in 1999, his house organ the National Liberty Journal warned parents that the Tinky Winky TV character was secretly gay and morally dangerous; in 2001, he blamed the September 11 terrorist attack on "pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America."

Susan Friend Harding sees these as his King Lear moments. "He had already lost power by then. It's sad to think he'll be remembered for his remark about Teletubbies."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/15/falwell.legacy/index.html?section=cnn_latest

 

[Shogun]

"True, because Nixon bombed OTHER countries, not his own. That is the main difference,
and the minor difference, - that Saddam wasnt acting under the guise of spreading democracy and freedom.
He was excercising control. Uncondonable, and horrible, but no less devastating than Nixon."

again, Ill invite you to pick ANY nation whose hands were more innocent than ours at the time and pack your bags... GUISE of spreading democracy and freedom? ASK SOME KURDS about that one liner this side of the mellenium, buddy.

say, i dont recall saddam resigning from office after political egg landed on his face... indeed, we sure are the same. of COURSE falwells grass roots political organization based on democracy is as insideous as saddam! Our treatemnt of the native americans in the 1800's prove it!





"This isnt realy that nutjob, google Nixon and Cambodia, you will find some good stuff. But I guess you dont have the time or the patience to
"relearn" American History."

at the end of the day the American historic FACT tells us that nixon was the product of an AMERICAN election and is no more sinister than the AMERICANS who voted for him. He didnt become emporor nixon. he is not still torturing kent state grads in some dark room below the whte house. Spare me the pompous "i'm the only one with access to REAL history" lecture... they are about as lame as RSR's hotkeys for cut and paste.


"Im not illustrating a 'happy point'.
Just refuting your quote that "we dont gas anyone this side of ww1.""


insinuate whatever you want to, dude.. You can pretend that America was not the cibola of democracy on the entire planet during the 20th century because of the errors of some American leaders while I pretend that this very reputation and reality is NOT the very reason we take on immigrants like a sieve.



"We just use bombs and more bombs.
But Nixon gets a pass by the American people, and is regarded as far greater a man than Saddam.
But that is neither here nor there.
It has little or nothing to do with this thread, we can talk elsewhere if you like, im game.
movin on'"


of course it is neither here nor there.... do you think that perhaps this kind of tangent is why those on the right accuse those on the left of strawmanning a debate? It's 2007 and you are not hunter s thompson... lets close the nixon chapter of the book, shall we?

 

[maineman]

It never ceases to amaze me how people who purport to be devout Christians fail to pay attention to the words of Christ. You can take all of the biblical references - nearly all oblique and requiring interpretation - to homosexuality and abortion and they don't fill us a half of a page of notebook paper, yet assholes like Falwell are veritably consumed by those issues and their profound importance to our society. Not one word "written in red" in the New Testament mentions either of those issues, yet Christ spends page after page in talking about poverty, about feeding the hungry, about healing and caring for the sick, about social justice, about turning the other cheek and forgiving your enemies seventy times seven times... about children.... about kindness... about charity.... about going the extra mile for the least of God's children and NONE of the religious right could apparently GIVE A SHIT about any of those issues. God's Politics by Jim Wallis is an excellent book on the subject.

 

[Shogun]

hating TELETUBBIES....


yes.. what a disasterous travesty of a social reality we must endure...


who will BREAK these CHAINS of TYRANY!?!?!

By KROM it feels like someone beheaded my mother and took my fathers sword!

 

[Superlative]

"It has little or nothing to do with this thread, we can talk elsewhere if you like, im game.
movin on'"

of course it is neither here nor there.... do you think that perhaps this kind of tangent is why those on the right accuse those on the left of strawmanning a debate? It's 2007 and you are not hunter s thompson... lets close the nixon chapter of the book, shall we?

Thank you for the response.

Like I said.

It has little or nothing to do with this thread, we can talk elsewhere if you like, im game.

movin on'