Zone1 I've been an atheist for 60 years and have never once been tempted to believe in any god

[Blues Man]

It's possible that your lack of faith is not your fault. The Bible tells us that God decides who can believe in him. Faith is a gift.

Doesn;t that contradict the entire idea of free will?

 

[K9Buck]

Doesn;t that contradict the entire idea of free will?

Yes. We have limited free will. God's will supersedes all.

Proverbs 16:9​

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English Standard Version​

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9 The heart of man plans his way,
but the Lord establishes his steps.

 

[Blues Man]

Yes. We have limited free will. God's will supersedes all.

Proverbs 16:9​

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English Standard Version​

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9 The heart of man plans his way,
but the Lord establishes his steps.

That contradicts the bible doesn't it?

If you don't have free will then why do do Christian religions proselytize. The people who your god forces to believe will find their church on their own right?

 

[K9Buck]

That contradicts the bible doesn't it?

Verse?

 

[K9Buck]

If you don't have free will then why do do Christian religions proselytize. The people who your god forces to believe will find their church on their own right?

John 8:47

English Standard Version

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47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”

 

[K9Buck]

Those who genuinely seek God will find him.​

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Matthew 7:7-8​

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English Standard Version​

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Ask, and It Will Be Given​

7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

 

[Blues Man]

Verse?

Either man has free will or he doesn't.

You are implying there is no free will at all

 

[Blues Man]

Those who genuinely seek God will find him.​

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Matthew 7:7-8​

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English Standard Version​

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Ask, and It Will Be Given​

7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Some people who seek find other philosophies.

So there's one more thing in the bible that's not true

 

[K9Buck]

Either man has free will or he doesn't.

You are implying there is no free will at all

God gives us space to make choices but he doesn't allow us to do anything and everything we want.

Most parents permit their toddler to choose which toy to play with, but they won't permit their child to play in the street.

 

[K9Buck]

Some people who seek find other philosophies.

True. God allows some to be lost from him for a period of time, but not forever. You may not follow God in this life but, eventually, you will.

 

[Blues Man]

God gives us space to make choices but he doesn't allow us to do anything and everything we want.

Most parents permit their toddler to choose which toy to play with, but they won't permit their child to play in the street.

Then there is no free will.

You just said your god decides who will be a believer and who won't so why get all preachy with people who say they do not believe in your god?

 

[Blues Man]

True. God allows some to be lost from him for a period of time, but not forever. You may not follow God in this life but, eventually, you will.

Again you argue against free will

 

[K9Buck]

...so why get all preachy...

I didn't get "preachy". This is a DISCUSSION community and I am engaging in DISCUSSION.

 

[K9Buck]

Again you argue against free will

Where does the Bible say that people have total free will?

 

[Blues Man]

I didn't get "preachy". This is a DISCUSSION community and I am engaging in DISCUSSION.

No you sound preachy to me

 

[K9Buck]

No you sound preachy to me

So do you.

 

[Blues Man]

Where does the Bible say that people have total free will?

This is what I hear from you religious types all the time

but here's a few

“You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is good for you. You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is beneficial” (1 Corinthians 10:23).

“Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord” (Joshua 24:14-15).

“If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God” (Deuteronomy 28:1-2).

“However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you” (Deuteronomy 28:15).

“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” (Deuteronomy 30:19-20).

 

[K9Buck]

“You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is good for you. You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is beneficial” (1 Corinthians 10:23).

Interesting translation. Where is it from?
Here is one better.

1 Corinthians 10:23

Young's Literal Translation

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23 All things to me are lawful, but all things are not profitable; all things to me are lawful, but all things do not build up;

 

[K9Buck]

But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves...

As I said. We have LIMITED free will and can and do make choices.

There are believers who choose NOT to follow God. Jesus spoke of them.

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[K9Buck]

This is what I hear from you religious types all the time

but here's a few

“You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is good for you. You say, ‘I am allowed to do anything’—but not everything is beneficial” (1 Corinthians 10:23).

“Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord” (Joshua 24:14-15).




“This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” (Deuteronomy 30:19-20).

Deuteronomy was written by Moses and the audience was the Jews of that period. Not every statement in the Bible is applicable to all people. Some discernment is required.