It's official!

[dmp]

I’m happy for you – that you found something you want or feel is the right thing to do. I participated in High School ROTC. I found that I would not make a good soldier. I like to question what I’m told. I remember asking why I had to polish my belt-buckle so well and to make it so shiny. It would simply reflect the light to the enemy and reveal my location.

Also, I don’t want to take the risk of being assigned to a war zone to participate in a war that I might think is not warranted or in America’s best interest. I also hear of problems that happen – parachute exercises in high winds that result in serious injury or death. Cadets who can’t swim have been pushed into pools. There are also those who die from exhaustion in training exercises.

I just don’t want to take those risks. My heart goes out to those who do. I do what I can. I give blood and volunteer – participate in activities to help the soldiers – I just don’t want to be a soldier.

Vintig could learn a LOT from you, Matt.

:Beers:

 

[dmp]

Wow, so quick to resort to classless name calling. DNB

Well I will not debate with you because you involved the word "turd" and "dick cheney" in the same sentance which leads me to believe you are not serious about un-biased discussion.

Again - you consistently try to shift the point of the discussion OFF your words. It's pathetic. Now, what I think you REALLY should have said was

Well, I have nothing to counter what you've said so I'll just throw out baseless claims on your biases - which have NOTHING to do with the discussion

And lastly, if the vice president is not an officer, why do you salute him?

Is it not because he outranks you?

Who salutes the Vice President? You SERIOUSLY need to work on your reading comprehension. I SHOWED you how the VP is not in the chain of command, and you are saying I'm saying he's not an 'officer'. Dude you really - as betrayed by your words here - know LESS than Jack Shit about the Army.

And please semper, do not tell anyone that college is a stupid Idea, you will look like a fool. I dont go around saying that the army is a stupid idea, and when I do, I retract that statement that came out due to frustration. Never, did I really explain why the army is a stupid Idea, Its not a stupid Idea......unless you have not thought it through and looked at your options.

HE will look like a fool? Dude - if you went to college you are a HORRIBLE example of what College can do to somebody.

 

[Vintij]

Again - you consistently try to shift the point of the discussion OFF your words. It's pathetic. Now, what I think you REALLY should have said was





Who salutes the Vice President? You SERIOUSLY need to work on your reading comprehension. I SHOWED you how the VP is not in the chain of command, and you are saying I'm saying he's not an 'officer'. Dude you really - as betrayed by your words here - know LESS than Jack Shit about the Army.



HE will look like a fool? Dude - if you went to college you are a HORRIBLE example of what College can do to somebody.

Thank you for saying that. Because I was thinking that you are a horrible example of what the army does to you!

Does that sound nice? Does it sound good to you? I thought not, so why judge me when my IQ is clearly higher than yours thanks to college. I dont go around with a loaded gun saying I am the best shot in the world do I?

And if nobody in the service does salute dick cheney what is this?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/images/20030712-12_v6763-22-ussreaganp-515h.jpg

And what about april 18th 2006 at fort riley KS. 10,000 people saluted cheney before he spoke at the rally.

 

[Vintij]

And what about this

http://www.cusnc.navy.mil/images/hi/070511-N-2659P-196.jpg


Again, more salutes for someone who (according to you) is not a man. Well why salute a pussy then?

As I said, the service does not make you more of a man than any other profession, it makes you a hero sure, and I thank you and every service member for serving, but why cant I be a man by following my dreams and living my own life? Just because America thinks it is the manly-est country on earth, does not mean that the world is full of a bunch of pussies....because if your going to salute someone who has never been in the service, well that defeats your argument does it not?

Again I am not taking anything away from the service, they are doing things that I could only wish I could do.....but to say that I am less of a man because I CHOOSE to live a different life, is un-warrented.

 

[dmp]

Thank you for saying that. Because I was thinking that you are a horrible example of what the army does to you!

Does that sound nice? Does it sound good to you? I thought not, so why judge me when my IQ is clearly higher than yours thanks to college. I dont go around with a loaded gun saying I am the best shot in the world do I?

And if nobody in the service does salute dick cheney what is this?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/images/20030712-12_v6763-22-ussreaganp-515h.jpg

And what about april 18th 2006 at fort riley KS. 10,000 people saluted cheney before he spoke at the rally.

FWIW - a piece of advice to you - It's VERY VERY VERY Lame-ass and douche-baggy to take my insult about how jacked-up you are, and use it against ME. It's like saying "Nuh-uh....YOU are...!!" and thumbing your nose at somebody.

Why the fuck are you caught up on Who is saluting? Saluting an elected official does NOT place them in the chain of command - YOU said I somehow 'take orders' from Cheney when it's VERY clear I do not. I said "The VP is not in my chain of Command." It COULD be they were saluting the Colors, while the VP walked past them.

1LT(P) Ehren Watada is not in my Chain of command either, nor do I take orders from him, yet I would salute him if I had to. But I don't have to salute a Lieutenant. I don't have to Salute a Captain or a Major or even a Lieutenant Colonel. That's how I roll.

 

[Vintij]

FWIW - a piece of advice to you - It's VERY VERY VERY Lame-ass and douche-baggy to take my insult about how jacked-up you are, and use it against ME. It's like saying "Nuh-uh....YOU are...!!" and thumbing your nose at somebody.

Why the fuck are you caught up on Who is saluting? Saluting an elected official does NOT place them in the chain of command - YOU said I somehow 'take orders' from Cheney when it's VERY clear I do not. I said "The VP is not in my chain of Command." It COULD be they were saluting the Colors, while the VP walked past them.

1LT(P) Ehren Watada is not in my Chain of command either, nor do I take orders from him, yet I would salute him if I had to. But I don't have to salute a Lieutenant. I don't have to Salute a Captain or a Major or even a Lieutenant Colonel. That's how I roll.

And thats great, but it was not you who I was originally trying to debunk, it was semper.

I really dont care who you salute, but the point of the salute argument was that, obviously the members of service can have respect for people who havent served, right? And moreover, I was asking semper why I am less of a man JUST because I dont want to join the service? I personally believe that the entire service is full of real MEN.

But the point of my argument was that there are also real men who are NOT in the service. Its even in the consitution "all men are created equal" not "all service members are better than everyone else". Which is the claim that semper was trying to prove, that he....for some reason...is better than me in the area of being a man, and/or being a human being. I competely dissagree with that, while having the utmost respect for all service members. I dont think I am better, I think we are equal. Thats all.

 

[dmp]

I really dont care who you salute, but the point of the salute argument was that, obviously the members of service can have respect for people who havent served, right?

The salute is about respecting a rank or the office, regardless of who holds it. It's NOT about a junior giving respect to a senior soldier, it's about a mutual recognition of the respect EACH has for one-another and their service.

And moreover, I was asking semper why I am less of a man JUST because I dont want to join the service? I personally believe that the entire service is full of real MEN.

You are not a man for probably MANY reasons. You betray your lack of maturity in your comments here, however. You show yourself WEAK and spineless; offering up EXCUSE instead of action; hyperbole instead of reason; and weakness instead of strength.

But the point of my argument was that there are also real men who are NOT in the service. Its even in the consitution "all men are created equal" not "all service members are better than everyone else".

It's been said, those who sacrifice a portion of THEIR freedom, to defend YOURS are in measurable fact BETTER than those who did not or will not. Firemen, Police, Medics, etc, - those people SERVE. They work to make our society BETTER. YOU, OTOH, seem content to live your life without regard to those men and women who sacrifice their minds, bodies, and even lives to allow you to do so.

 

[Vintij]

The salute is about respecting a rank or the office, regardless of who holds it. It's NOT about a junior giving respect to a senior soldier, it's about a mutual recognition of the respect EACH has for one-another and their service.




You are not a man for probably MANY reasons. You betray your lack of maturity in your comments here, however. You show yourself WEAK and spineless; offering up EXCUSE instead of action; hyperbole instead of reason; and weakness instead of strength.



It's been said, those who sacrifice a portion of THEIR freedom, to defend YOURS are in measurable fact BETTER than those who did not or will not. Firemen, Police, Medics, etc, - those people SERVE. They work to make our society BETTER. YOU, OTOH, seem content to live your life without regard to those men and women who sacrifice their minds, bodies, and even lives to allow you to do so.

Well I guess I should quit my job then, since you say its not good enough. haha nice try, but the statement that you just used would mean that AL-qaeda is full of real men?

Obviously they are willing to die for whomever they worship, and whatever country they live in. Does that make them men just because they are willing to die for their country?

What about the "MEN" who raped that women in the barracks last year? Are they true men because they are willing to die for their country?

Maybe its your choice to believe that your better than me, but the people in the service, are normal people too. They were before they went in, they have the same problems and flaws, and sometimes it gets out of controll. Just BEING in the service does not make you gods gift to mankind, you have to obey the laws and fight with honor and respect.

Same as any job, obey the laws.....do your job with honor, and if you can.....help as many people as possible. These are examples of men that are in, and not in the army.

Ofcourse you are braver, and probably bigger, probably stronger than I am, but a man is not measured by his size or strength, or even bravery. I believe he is measured by his WILL to help others, his LOVE for other people, his RESPONSIBILITY, his COMPASSION, his SACRAFICE, and ofcourse the size of his penis.

You dont need to be in the army to be a great man.

Just ask Issac Newton, Albert Einstein, Paul Dirac, Winston Churchil, Martin Luther King jr, John Lennon, Ghandi, Dali Lama, Stephen Hawking, Evil Knevil, Micheal Jordan, Dikembe Mutombo .....etc

 

[dmp]

Well I guess I should quit my job then, since you say its not good enough. haha nice try, but the statement that you just used would mean that AL-qaeda is full of real men?

Logical Fallacy, friend. I'm not going to give your straw man the courtesy of more attention than this line.

Obviously they are willing to die for whomever they worship, and whatever country they live in. Does that make them men just because they are willing to die for their country?

Islamic Terrorists kill for their Faith. Comparing them to Police and Firemen, etc, FURTHER prove what a douche bag you are.

What about the "MEN" who raped that women in the barracks last year? Are they true men because they are willing to die for their country?

Maybe its your choice to believe that your better than me, but the people in the service, are normal people too. They were before they went in, they have the same problems and flaws, and sometimes it gets out of controll. Just BEING in the service does not make you gods gift to mankind, you have to obey the laws and fight with honor and respect.

Same as any job, obey the laws.....do your job with honor, and if you can.....help as many people as possible. These are examples are men that are in, and not in the army.

You're a pussy. You're scared to leave Mary Jane Rottencrotch. You are afraid you (snif) might have to DO something for your country! You help yourself sleep by thinking whatever minimum-wage job you currently hold is actually HELPING somebody. Do yourself, and your community a favor - GIVE. Give of your time. Give of your money. Make your society BETTER by putting the needs of your community above your own.

Until you sacrifice, you'll never get what I, and others already know.

 

[dmp]

You dont need to be in the army to be a great man.

Just ask Issac Newton, Albert Einstein, Paul Dirac, Winston Churchil, Martin Luther King jr, John Lennon, Ghandi, Dali Lama, Stephen Hawking, Evil Knevil, Micheal Jordan, .....etc

Churchill served. So did Einstein. So did Newton. So did Ghandi. If you try REALLY Hard to read correctly, you'll see what I mean by 'served'.

Micheal Jordan? He's a gifted Athlete. That's not the same. Sergeant First Class Paul Ray Smith is a Great Man. He's a great man of the order of magnitude you likely will NEVER attain; Me either, for that matter. But even PVT Joe Snuffy, wherever he is right now, the DAY he graduates Basic Combat Training is a better man than you. Or those in that list if they have given nothing for the greater good.

 

[Semper Fi]

And please semper, do not tell anyone that college is a stupid Idea, you will look like a fool. I dont go around saying that the army is a stupid idea, and when I do, I retract that statement that came out due to frustration. Never, did I really explain why the army is a stupid Idea, Its not a stupid Idea......unless you have not thought it through and looked at your options.

As a matter of fact, you did say that joining the Army (actually it was the Marine Corps) was a stupid idea. Look at your first post. I know you "retracted" that statement, but to say you never said it was a stupid idea is a flat out lie. And I will tell people that college is a stupid idea depending on the situation. One of my best friends is in the same boat Im in. We both hate school. We both hate the idea of college. We both want a future in the military. I should tell him that college isnt a stupid idea for him? No, I should point him in the right path, which is out of college and into the military where he belongs. For peace-nicks and Jehova's Witnesses, joining the Army would be a stupid idea. You gotta look at things according to each situation, one cannot simply level everything onto one idea that something is ultimately good and ultimately bad.

So, with all the injustice in the world....Iraq would be the last place I would fight that injustice because there is no military solution to this. As I said before, our mission is to keep peace in Iraq and set up the transitional democracy, that is not working so far.

Aside from the point of the thread, but I'll respond. Things take time. Simple. Progress has been made, you should be able to read about that on your own accord. If you dont or refuse to acknowledge that, in fact, progress has been made in Iraq, than you are nothing more than a pessimist and not a solution to the problem.

You just dont get that a gun does not solve everyones problems. It makes you a hero if you fight for your country and even die. But truthfully, a gun will not get rid of any nuclear weapons on earth, a gun will not keep peace between sunnis and shia.....etc. A gun will not bring you closer to god.

I disagree. Guns do not solve every problem, but they do solve problems. It wasnt flowery words and Pleases that ended the Third Reich. It was guns and men and American balls.

That is what I believe. You obviously are on a different page. And thats ok, but to say that I am a pussy becuase I refuse to pick up a gun and kill a complete stranger that I dont even know is the enemy or not.

To my knowledge, I never said you were a pussy for not joining the military. If you were referring to the recruiters being pushy and liberals being pussy, then you missed the point. I was saying that you cant take all of one type of people or occupation of people and judge them one way or another.

Dont judge me for my lifes decisions, and dont judge anyone else for theirs because I can assure you that I am not the only one who thinks this way. I can assure you that a choice not to join a failed war, is always a better choice because it is a choice to live.

Why dont you listen to your own advice? I never judged you, yet the first post you made in the thread, as well as others, have been basically you judging me for not joining the millions of other high school students on their faceless trek through college.

 

[Vintij]

Logical Fallacy, friend. I'm not going to give your straw man the courtesy of more attention than this line.



Islamic Terrorists kill for their Faith. Comparing them to Police and Firemen, etc, FURTHER prove what a douche bag you are.



You're a pussy. You're scared to leave Mary Jane Rottencrotch. You are afraid you (snif) might have to DO something for your country! You help yourself sleep by thinking whatever minimum-wage job you currently hold is actually HELPING somebody. Do yourself, and your community a favor - GIVE. Give of your time. Give of your money. Make your society BETTER by putting the needs of your community above your own.

Until you sacrifice, you'll never get what I, and others already know.

I already gave my Parents. Who raised you? I bet it was 1 or 2 of your parents. Not me. I already gave thousands of dollars to the salvation army, clothes to the charity, time to the Los Angeles Homeless group by feeding them, I have spoken with Senator Feinstein and asked her to support the funding of our troops without any strings attached or any exit dates.

I mean, how can you call me a pussy on several occasions when you dont even know what you want to do with your life OUTSIDE of the army?

Tell me, do you think the ARMY is a life long commitment?

Dont you think that there is life after the army? Well tell me then, what is it that you think you can do better than me, now that you are outside of the army.

Now that you served your 5 years, you demand respect from everyone on earth?

Well, sure your going to get it, even from me. But why just stand there and talk about how you Used to serve, why not serve a different cause? Like getting our troops home. Or at least helping someone who is less fortunate than you.

I personally, dont like it when friends of mine have to die for something that is completely failing in the eyes of every american, in the eyes of inspectors, in the eyes of the Iraqi people, in the eyes of generals.....everyone except you and President BUSH, thinks this war is not going so well.

 

[Semper Fi]

I personally, dont like it when friends of mine have to die for something that is completely failing in the eyes of every american, in the eyes of inspectors, in the eyes of the Iraqi people, in the eyes of generals.....everyone except you and President BUSH, thinks this war is not going so well.

I love how you can tell what EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN feels at this moment. Got any lottery numbers coming up in that crystal ball of yours? I dont think the war is failing. My dad (an Iraq vet) doesnt think the war is failing. Both of my recruiters dont think the war is failing. What makes me put more stock in what they have to say? Because they've all been there. You've seen the news, maybe read a book or two, but until your skin feels the heat of the Iraqi sun and you get Iraqi sand in your eyes, your opinion on how the war is going means about as much to me as the blades of grass I just mowed.

 

[dmp]

I already gave my Parents. Who raised you? I bet it was 1 or 2 of your parents. Not me. I already gave thousands of dollars to the salvation army, clothes to the charity, time to the Los Angeles Homeless group by feeding them, I have spoken with Senator Feinstein and asked her to support the funding of our troops without any strings attached or any exit dates.

Gave your parents? to whom?
I think you're lying or exaggerating about the rest. Douche Bags do that, from time to time.

I mean, how can you call me a pussy on several occasions when you dont even know what you want to do with your life OUTSIDE of the army?

Speculation.

Tell me, do you think the ARMY is a life long commitment?

Those who retire are still part of the Army...Veterans will always carry it with them. As the saying goes, All (vets) gave SOME...SOME...gave all.

Dont you think that there is life after the army? Well tell me then, what is it that you think you can do better than me, now that you are outside of the army.

Eh? I can probably do a lot of things better than you. Off the top of my head:

Debate. Fire an M4. Fire a FIM-92A. Drive a Bradley. Work as, or lead a Team. Be a LEADER. I'm a better husband and father than you, too.

But this isn't about DOING something better...it's about BEING something better. YOU would be a BETTER PERSON if you served.

Now that you served your 5 years, you demand respect from everyone on earth?

5 years? I've been a part of the army for nearly 3 times that.

Well, sure your going to get it, even from me. But why just stand there and talk about how you Used to serve, why not serve a different cause? Like getting our troops home. Or at least helping someone who is less fortunate than you.

I NEVER demand respect. SOME people respect my service. Some don't. That's their right. YOU, OTOH, seem to think people should blow you because of your precious opinion. I'm saying, you're a DICKHEAD in this thread about a young man, who is BETTER than you, I add, who has decided to serve our great nation.

I personally, dont like it when friends of mine have to die for something that is completely failing in the eyes of every american, in the eyes of inspectors, in the eyes of the Iraqi people, in the eyes of generals.....everyone except you and President BUSH, thinks this war is not going so well.

Again - here you go - trying to divert the subject again.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Congrats?!?!
...
And as for everyone else, stop egging him on. 18 is too young for anyone to be tossed into a war zone.

As I am the one who said "congrats", I suspect this was directed at me. You have no idea what you are talking about. This young man has told us for a couple of years how much he wanted to do this. He has attained his personal goal. That is why you congratulate someone.

Oh, and btw, my husband's ancestor in Maine joined to fight in the Revolutionary War when he was 14. Who knows what our country's military wil be called upon to do in the next few years. Thank God there are young people like Semper who will step up. Some people are able to look beyond their own comforts and safety to a bigger cause. I suspect this is a concept you are not able to grasp?

Congrats, Semper Fi, on achieving your worthy goal!

 

[Abbey Normal]

You know you're a shithead when you get people from another board that don't post here anymore to come out and crawl up your ass.

Congratulations.

Now that is funny!

 

[CSM]

I love how you can tell what EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN feels at this moment. Got any lottery numbers coming up in that crystal ball of yours? I dont think the war is failing. My dad (an Iraq vet) doesnt think the war is failing. Both of my recruiters dont think the war is failing. What makes me put more stock in what they have to say? Because they've all been there. You've seen the news, maybe read a book or two, but until your skin feels the heat of the Iraqi sun and you get Iraqi sand in your eyes, your opinion on how the war is going means about as much to me as the blades of grass I just mowed.

Congratulations and good luck. Forgot to tell you that. Young men and women like you help me have faith that this nation will indeed survive and prosper!

 

[Vintij]

What an astounding surprise, recruiters.....dont think the war is going badly.

Jesus christ, do you listen to generals? Do you watch the television? Do you read how the iraqis have not reached half of their benchmarks? But the war is going perfectly?

I seriously cant believe that after all these years, there are still people that think Iraq is going as planned. The president himself admitted that Iraq is not going the way it was planned but we are there and we have to stay there. So why is everyone living under a rock, painting the iraq into some kind of masterpiece that is going to be all better in a year, or two.

You really are blithly unaware of your surroundings, and what is going on in the war. I talk to veterans face to face, they explain to me how bad its going over there. Progress is not being made. And if it is, there is not enough of it, considering the report came back two days ago and it states that absolutely no progress has been made since the last inspection and generals agree.

Not even half of the homeland security bills have been passed since they were drafted 3 years ago! If we cant even make progress with our own boarders and our own domestic policy, how can someone on this green earth believe that President Bushs foreign policy is succeeding? I mean it just boggles my mind that there are still people like that.

 

[Semper Fi]

What an astounding surprise, recruiters.....dont think the war is going badly.

Jesus christ, do you listen to generals? Do you watch the television? Do you read how the iraqis have not reached half of their benchmarks? But the war is going perfectly?

I seriously cant believe that after all these years, there are still people that think Iraq is going as planned. The president himself admitted that Iraq is not going the way it was planned but we are there and we have to stay there. So why is everyone living under a rock, painting the iraq into some kind of masterpiece that is going to be all better in a year, or two.

You really are blithly unaware of your surroundings, and what is going on in the war. I talk to veterans face to face, they explain to me how bad its going over there. Progress is not being made. And if it is, there is not enough of it, considering the report came back two days ago and it states that absolutely no progress has been made since the last inspection and generals agree.

Not even half of the homeland security bills have been passed since they were drafted 3 years ago! If we cant even make progress with our own boarders and our own domestic policy, how can someone on this green earth believe that President Bushs foreign policy is succeeding? I mean it just boggles my mind that there are still people like that.

Point out where I said the war is going "perfectly"
Point out where I said the war is going "as planned".
Stop trying to tell me what I say. I know what I said, you obviously dont.

I know it isnt going perfectly, and I know it isnt going as planned, not bad for someone "blithly unaware of [my] surroundings", eh? But to call it a failure as you have done repeatedly is just plain pessimistic and inaccurate. You now how I know the war hasnt failed? Where is Saddam? Where is the reign of terror that suppressed the entire country for decades? Where are the torture chambers? Where are the death squads? More importantly, ask yourself where the mass graves are. Ask yourself how many people died at the hands of Chemical Ali and his mustard gas. As yourself if all this would be in the past as it is now, had the US not intervened in Iraq?

Another question I'd like to ask you is where are the terrorists? In Iraq? Yes. They are. I'd rather have them flocking to Iraq, you know, where we have thousands of US troops and hardware, than storming the cockpit of an airliner stateside.

If you look at the FACTS of the HISTORY of Iraq, you will realize that the US intervening was a good thing. Things take time. You must understand that. Look at Eastern Europe. Look at Russia. After more than a decade of post-Cold War peace in Europe, some countries still don't have their feet on the ground. Also, what you're saying about Iraq, you know, democracy never taking hold and whatnot, is what critics said about Japan after WWII, and look at them now. A big difference in that is about 60 years.

 

[pegwinn]

Yo Vinnie. I was going to do the multiquote thing and pretty much destroy your position. But, Semper already did that. Let's just look at a couple of your bolder comments.

About being 21: Dude, I have more time in service before retiring when my unit came back from Iraq than you have time in life. Comparing the average 21 y/o to the average 18 y/o is like comparing dumb and dumber. I speak from having kids older than you and having led a gazillion Marines in that age bracket.

I will give you a cool point for at least acknowledging your initial stupid post and the apology that went with it. But, the first post clearly established that you feel superior to those who join the service. And you are mistaken about who thinks they are better than whom. You ascribed that to Semper. Actually it was me. Obviously you didn't read the rebuttal to that attitude I posted. But, it's ok, I really didn't think you would. And if you had, you couldn't rebut it.

Here is the deal. After a 21/22 year old graduates and joins the corporate world, he or she is lower than whale dung. They won't even let you use the copy machine without adult supervision. A 21 year old Marine OTOH is a leader who can make life and death decisions, or help his 19 y/o PFC balance a checkbook.