It’s Constitutional

[paperview]

since states are sovereign they have a more or less automatic right to seceed from the confederation. If not how would the states protect themselves from an abusive federal government? How can a person be free without this ability to walk away?

So, you can't name a single state either. I shall continue to wait.

Virginia and the Crisis of Union
On February 13, 1861, delegates representing all counties in Virginia met to decide how the state would respond to recent events, especially Abraham Lincoln's election and South Carolina's secession. They voted to remain in the Union and hoped that a compromise could be reached to defuse the situation. Two months later, the same men voted to secede from the United States, sparking a radically different war than might otherwise have taken place. Secession: Virginia and the Crisis of Union links the fully transcribed text of these debates with a wealth of contextual information, giving users the tools to ask why the men who brought the war into their own counties and neighborhoods did so.

http://http://collections.richmond.edu/secession/

152 years ago?

How'd that work out?

 

[Flanders]

Jefferson did NOT allow, nor want, the nine whores in DC to be the final arbitors of what the Constitution means, and as a matter of fact stated that if we allowesd that to happen we would no longer live in a free Republic, but would live in an oligarchy ruled by those very whores.

To jtpr312: Sensible, informed, Americans agree with you. See the full article for some good stuff:

Contemporary opinion, including that of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, says a state’s right to secede died with the hundreds of thousands of bloodied victims of the Civil War and that the sentiment behind the dozens of petitions on the White House website seeking permission for most of the 50 individual governments to leave the union will be fruitless.

But historians would note that Thomas Jefferson, a “pole star among political philosophers because he based his politics on the eternal, self-evident, fundamental truths that all men are created free and equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” believed states have a right to leave the U.S.

XXXXX​

There even was a new petition to “Allow all of the seceding states to reform into a new United States.” It explains the new nation would be “based on the principles laid down by the Founding Fathers.”

Scalia vs. Thomas Jefferson on secession
Will nation 'submit to government without limits'?
Published: 11/14/2012 at 7:05 PM
by BOB UNRUH

Scalia vs. Thomas Jefferson on secession

 

[WorldWatcher]

Now, if we can leave the fantasy world for just a bit, what state is currently looking at secession? I don't mean what states have small groups of John Wayne wannabe's masturbating to the idea of secession, I mean what state government is doing it. Really, just a committee to explore the option will do.

Add to that question, what State with citizen initiative/referendum provisions have one actually in the works to put a secession referendum on the ballot?


>>>>

 

[PratchettFan]

Now, if we can leave the fantasy world for just a bit, what state is currently looking at secession? I don't mean what states have small groups of John Wayne wannabe's masturbating to the idea of secession, I mean what state government is doing it. Really, just a committee to explore the option will do.

Add to that question, what State with citizen initiative/referendum provisions have one actually in the works to put a secession referendum on the ballot?


>>>>

Excellent point. And the waiting continues.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What citizen groups in which states are in the works of trying to put a secession ordinance referendum on the ballot?

That is the best way of asking the quesiton.

Now, if we can leave the fantasy world for just a bit, what state is currently looking at secession? I don't mean what states have small groups of John Wayne wannabe's masturbating to the idea of secession, I mean what state government is doing it. Really, just a committee to explore the option will do.

Add to that question, what State with citizen initiative/referendum provisions have one actually in the works to put a secession referendum on the ballot?


>>>>

 

[PratchettFan]

What citizen groups in which states are in the works of trying to put a secession ordinance referendum on the ballot?

That is the best way of asking the quesiton.

Now, if we can leave the fantasy world for just a bit, what state is currently looking at secession? I don't mean what states have small groups of John Wayne wannabe's masturbating to the idea of secession, I mean what state government is doing it. Really, just a committee to explore the option will do.

Add to that question, what State with citizen initiative/referendum provisions have one actually in the works to put a secession referendum on the ballot?


>>>>

I'm not sure that is the best way. You might well find a citizen group trying to get slavery re-enacted via a referendum, but that doesn't mean it stands a chance of ever seeing a vote. This is a free society and any group of citizens have the right to petition the government on any issue they please. That is not the same thing as a serious potential of anything actually happening.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I agree with you, and perhaps I misunderstood. Yes, citizen groups are involved, whereas the state facilitates if the various requirements are met.

 

[jtpr312]

So, you can't name a single state either. I shall continue to wait.

Virginia and the Crisis of Union
On February 13, 1861, delegates representing all counties in Virginia met to decide how the state would respond to recent events, especially Abraham Lincoln's election and South Carolina's secession. They voted to remain in the Union and hoped that a compromise could be reached to defuse the situation. Two months later, the same men voted to secede from the United States, sparking a radically different war than might otherwise have taken place. Secession: Virginia and the Crisis of Union links the fully transcribed text of these debates with a wealth of contextual information, giving users the tools to ask why the men who brought the war into their own counties and neighborhoods did so.

http://http://collections.richmond.edu/secession/

152 years ago?

How'd that work out?

Soooo, you're admitting you're an ignoramous who doesn't know how the War of Northern Agression ended? Let me educate you. The fascist forces, under the leadership of the greatest fascist in American history, Abraham Lincoln, illegally and immorally invaded the free and Soveriegn state of Virginia and then the rest of the freedom loving states that seceded from their oppressive and overbearing federal govt.

 

[paperview]

Virginia and the Crisis of Union
On February 13, 1861, delegates representing all counties in Virginia met to decide how the state would respond to recent events, especially Abraham Lincoln's election and South Carolina's secession. They voted to remain in the Union and hoped that a compromise could be reached to defuse the situation. Two months later, the same men voted to secede from the United States, sparking a radically different war than might otherwise have taken place. Secession: Virginia and the Crisis of Union links the fully transcribed text of these debates with a wealth of contextual information, giving users the tools to ask why the men who brought the war into their own counties and neighborhoods did so.

http://http://collections.richmond.edu/secession/

152 years ago?

How'd that work out?

Soooo, you're admitting you're an ignoramous who doesn't know how the War of Northern Agression ended? Let me educate you. The fascist forces, under the leadership of the greatest fascist in American history, Abraham Lincoln, illegally and immorally invaded the free and Soveriegn state of Virginia and then the rest of the freedom loving states that seceded from their oppressive and overbearing federal govt.

Ah, I see.

You're just another neo-confed Lost Causer who is still fighting the Civil War.

I know quite well how it ended. You guys lost. Pretty fucking bad. The traitors should have hung too.

 

[jillian]

So, you can't name a single state either. I shall continue to wait.

Virginia and the Crisis of Union
On February 13, 1861, delegates representing all counties in Virginia met to decide how the state would respond to recent events, especially Abraham Lincoln's election and South Carolina's secession. They voted to remain in the Union and hoped that a compromise could be reached to defuse the situation. Two months later, the same men voted to secede from the United States, sparking a radically different war than might otherwise have taken place. Secession: Virginia and the Crisis of Union links the fully transcribed text of these debates with a wealth of contextual information, giving users the tools to ask why the men who brought the war into their own counties and neighborhoods did so.

http://http://collections.richmond.edu/secession/

152 years ago?

How'd that work out?

so well that they're still whining...

 

[jillian]

Name me a single state legislature which has even created a committee to explore the notion of secession. Just one. I'll wait.

since states are sovereign they have a more or less automatic right to seceed from the confederation. If not how would the states protect themselves from an abusive federal government? How can a person be free without this ability to walk away?

you realize that the Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution, right? so they're irrelevant. according to justice scalia, the only way to terminate the relationship is with the consent of the other states.

but according to the caselaw, it doesn't seem even that would work since the implication is that it is a permanent arrangement.

but it would be funny to see the red states secede.... particularly when states like louisiana get $1.75 for every dollar it puts into the federal system.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Now, if we can leave the fantasy world for just a bit, what state is currently looking at secession? I don't mean what states have small groups of John Wayne wannabe's masturbating to the idea of secession, I mean what state government is doing it. Really, just a committee to explore the option will do.

Add to that question, what State with citizen initiative/referendum provisions have one actually in the works to put a secession referendum on the ballot?


>>>>

Good ideas take time to grow. Let's not forget it took 5 million years for the American Revolution for freedom from big liberal government. We must always remember, if we cant be free from the liberal Federal big government to whom we delegated power we are not free.

Why don't all the libturds tell us why they love the Federal governemnt so much?? Is it the $16 trillion debt going to $50 Trillion? Is it the current depression? Is it having a guy as president who had 2 communist parents and voted to the left of Bernie Sanders?

 

[JakeStarkey]

This type of stupidity the average American associates with the right wing of the GOP, instead of the crazed doofi like jtpr out in reactionary parallel universe. This type of stuff helped us to lose the presidential election and two senate seats.

Mainstream GOP have to denounce these unAmerican stains as something that has nothing to do with mainstream, modern Republicanism.

Virginia and the Crisis of Union
On February 13, 1861, delegates representing all counties in Virginia met to decide how the state would respond to recent events, especially Abraham Lincoln's election and South Carolina's secession. They voted to remain in the Union and hoped that a compromise could be reached to defuse the situation. Two months later, the same men voted to secede from the United States, sparking a radically different war than might otherwise have taken place. Secession: Virginia and the Crisis of Union links the fully transcribed text of these debates with a wealth of contextual information, giving users the tools to ask why the men who brought the war into their own counties and neighborhoods did so.

http://http://collections.richmond.edu/secession/

152 years ago?

How'd that work out?

Soooo, you're admitting you're an ignoramous who doesn't know how the War of Northern Agression ended? Let me educate you. The fascist forces, under the leadership of the greatest fascist in American history, Abraham Lincoln, illegally and immorally invaded the free and Soveriegn state of Virginia and then the rest of the freedom loving states that seceded from their oppressive and overbearing federal govt.

 

[jtpr312]

152 years ago?

How'd that work out?

Soooo, you're admitting you're an ignoramous who doesn't know how the War of Northern Agression ended? Let me educate you. The fascist forces, under the leadership of the greatest fascist in American history, Abraham Lincoln, illegally and immorally invaded the free and Soveriegn state of Virginia and then the rest of the freedom loving states that seceded from their oppressive and overbearing federal govt.

Ah, I see.

You're just another neo-confed Lost Causer who is still fighting the Civil War.

I know quite well how it ended. You guys lost. Pretty fucking bad. The traitors should have hung too.

They may have been hung, I wouldn't know their penis size in any event. Unless of course you meant, they should have been hanged? So speaketh another dumbass.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Everybody who is sane in America is libturd to EB, from Ryan to Biden.

EB still is living in the days of the Articles of Confederation.

jtpr is simply yet another one of a long line of losers in the white, criminal brotherhood, pretending they are Christian as well. Amazing.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It's absolutely bizarre that some people think the Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over legal issues.

For many on the far right and libertarians this is their only recourse: to reject the doctrine of judicial review altogether, impugn the Court’s interpretive authority, and reject Constitutional jurisprudence in its entirety, where everything stops in 1791.

It’s as sad as it is bizarre.

It is also irrelevant, and that might be the reason for the frustration. They can believe what they like and express what they believe, but that changes not a thing. The SC has the authority not just because the Constitution gives the Court the authority but also because the nation gives them the authority. Both the Congress and the President acknowledge that authority. The military and local authorities acknowledge that authority. So any little group who does not is free to do as they please, so long as they don't attempt put that into action which is against the law.

There are probably lots of people in jail who do not acknowledge the authority of the government to put them there. But that doesn't make the bars go away.

True, it is irrelevant.

It’s also telling and ironic, in that for all of their pontificating about ‘freedom,’ they reject the doctrines of judicial review and the Court’s interpretive authority because that very case law prohibits them from putting into action the hate for other Americans they feel.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

for all of their pontificating about ‘freedom,’ they reject the doctrines of judicial review and the Court’s interpretive authority

too stupid and perfectly liberal. The conservative textualist point is: if the court has more power the people have less freedom. No one is worried about the freedom of the court to read the COnstitution any way it wants you goof liberal baboon!!!

PLease wait till college before commenting again. Even these discussions are way over your head.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Even Scalia would call you a buffoon.

for all of their pontificating about ‘freedom,’ they reject the doctrines of judicial review and the Court’s interpretive authority

too stupid and perfectly liberal. The conservative textualist point is: if the court has more power the people have less freedom. No one is worried about the freedom of the court to read the COnstitution any way it wants you goof liberal baboon!!!

PLease wait till college before commenting again. Even these discussions are way over your head.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Even Scalia would call you a buffoon.

for all of their pontificating about ‘freedom,’ they reject the doctrines of judicial review and the Court’s interpretive authority

too stupid and perfectly liberal. The conservative textualist point is: if the court has more power the people have less freedom. No one is worried about the freedom of the court to read the COnstitution any way it wants you goof liberal baboon!!!

PLease wait till college before commenting again. Even these discussions are way over your head.

lol

Yes, even Scalia…

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Even Scalia would call you a buffoon.

too stupid and perfectly liberal. The conservative textualist point is: if the court has more power the people have less freedom. No one is worried about the freedom of the court to read the COnstitution any way it wants you goof liberal baboon!!!

PLease wait till college before commenting again. Even these discussions are way over your head.

lol

Yes, even Scalia…

too stupid and perfectly liberal. The conservative textualist point is: if the court has more power the people have less freedom. No one is worried about the freedom of the court to read the COnstitution any way it wants you goof liberal baboon!!!