It is absurd to use the word "REASON" to describe Atheism.

[idb]

After all, all that we see evolves from the simple to the complex. It would therefore stand against reason that a hyper-evolved entity created life.

Your statement is exactly backwards. The law of "entropy" states that everything devolves into a more random state over time. This is why everything that humanity ever built will eventually deteriorate. Even the sun and the earth are eroding and devolving into a simpler state.

Are you sure???
Isn't simple Hydrogen fusing into the more complex Helium in the Sun????
Why yes, yes it is.

Yep, just as humans are evolving into more complex..........errm, oh, never mind...

 

[edthecynic]

It makes me very frustrated when activists hijack the word “reason” to describe the belief that there is definitely no higher power and that everything they we see around us is the the product of random chance.

The theories of evolution and big bang are just “theories”. Evolution is based on random mutations. The big bang theory does not explain how the ingredients for the big bang were created. Did something come from nothing? Did life arise from inanimate objects by chance and it can’t be duplicated on purpose in a laboratory? These theories seem silly to me.

There are many, many theories about how God created the universe and life aside from the satirical theory that you mention. But my main belief is that God knows things that we are not capable of understanding.

Did you know that if a monkey sat at a typewriter for the entire life of the universe (about 14 billion years) and typed random letters continuously, he would never write a novel by random chance. IMHO it is unreasonable to conclude that the trillions of cells in our body that make up complicated organs that all work together came to be from random mutations over a period of several hundred million years. Although we witness many species going extinct, no one has ever witnessed the creation of a new species. The only thing scientists have observed are mutations within a species.

IMHO the most reasonable theory is that a power beyond our understanding created all that we see.

Well, according to Creation, everything came from nothing!
No thing (God) created everything from nothing.
Or are you claiming that God is a thing, and if so what thing is God?

 

[Si modo]

After all, all that we see evolves from the simple to the complex. It would therefore stand against reason that a hyper-evolved entity created life.

Your statement is exactly backwards. The law of "entropy" states that everything devolves into a more random state over time. This is why everything that humanity ever built will eventually deteriorate. Even the sun and the earth are eroding and devolving into a simpler state.

Are you sure???
Isn't simple Hydrogen fusing into the more complex Helium in the Sun????
Why yes, yes it is.

He is right, sorta. The sun is growing more ordered.

Solar fusion of hydrogen take three atoms (simplified for atom economics, 2H -> D then D+H -> He) and combines them into one (He). Two less atoms moving is more ordered than three moving. So, entropy decreases with solar fusion reactions.

It's one of those thermodynamic laws.

 

[edthecynic]

Your statement is exactly backwards. The law of "entropy" states that everything devolves into a more random state over time. This is why everything that humanity ever built will eventually deteriorate. Even the sun and the earth are eroding and devolving into a simpler state.

Are you sure???
Isn't simple Hydrogen fusing into the more complex Helium in the Sun????
Why yes, yes it is.

He is right, sorta. The sun is growing more ordered.

Solar fusion of hydrogen take three atoms (simplified for atom economics, 2H -> D then D+H -> He) and combines them into one (He). Two less atoms moving is more ordered than three moving. So, entropy decreases with solar fusion reactions.

It's one of those thermodynamic laws.

Except he is arguing the opposite, that the Sun is becoming more random and therefore less ordered.

 

[eflatminor]

(Atheists)...hijack the word “reason” to describe the belief that there is definitely no higher power...

After all, all that we see evolves from the simple to the complex. It would therefore stand against reason that a hyper-evolved entity created life.

Your statement is exactly backwards. The law of "entropy" states that everything devolves into a more random state over time. This is why everything that humanity ever built will eventually deteriorate. Even the sun and the earth are eroding and devolving into a simpler state.

Regardless of what the law of entropy or any thermodynamic property says about evolution, it does not prove the existence of a supernatural sky god. Healthy skepticism is therefore reasonable.

 

[Si modo]

Are you sure???
Isn't simple Hydrogen fusing into the more complex Helium in the Sun????
Why yes, yes it is.

He is right, sorta. The sun is growing more ordered.

Solar fusion of hydrogen take three atoms (simplified for atom economics, 2H -> D then D+H -> He) and combines them into one (He). Two less atoms moving is more ordered than three moving. So, entropy decreases with solar fusion reactions.

It's one of those thermodynamic laws.

Except he is arguing the opposite, that the Sun is becoming more random and therefore less ordered.

By george, he is. Man, talk about reading something with bias. I totally did not read that error; I just assumed he said it right.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Where did God come from?

He has always existed. He is also a spirit is a spirit made up of matter I don't know. If God created all things he existed outside of time and matter as we know of it. Humans know very little concerning the universe and the origins of life.

'He has always existed'...since when?

He is eternal without a beginning and without end.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I base it on the fact that I have seen no evidence that there should be a beginning or an end of matter itself.

You claim that God has always existed, and yet you also claim the universe and the matter in it cannot have always existed.

You have no evidence of either.

You see I I have no reason to doubt the scriptures. don't have a problem admitting some of my views are based in faith,how bout you ? I have no reason to doubt what the scriptures say.

I have no problem with your faith. I have faith of my own.

But to claim that science and atheistism do not use reason, while claiming that a book written by a nomadic tribe between 2 and 4 thousand years ago provides you with all the answers, is not exactly using reason.

I have no problem with yours either,but when your side gets up on their high horse and say that only the ignorant and uneducated believe in God and creation while claiming their theories that was created by man and claim their theory is a fact, and people believe it because they are intelligent, that I take exception to.

First off I didn't make the claim that science does not use reason.

I should explain something about myself. I have a degree in Molecular biology and I have studied mutations in flies for around 11 and a half years.

I don't see sound theories in some areas of science. You are forced to use faith to believe some theories. That is not real science when faith is your only evidence.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Please feel free to document the facts that "god" exists as well.

I can't prove or disprove Gods existence but I can see evidence that suggests a higher power.

Then what you have is a faith based opinion attributing what you see to a higher power. Why not space aliens? Ghosts?

My faith comes from the bible and that is not what the scriptures say. Well God and the angels are in space and they are aliens to this planet.

So why does the title God bother you ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I can see that individual living things are different from their parents, and that some individual living things are born with mutations.

I know that the overwhelming majority of mutations are not beneficial, but that there are some mutations or variations that are beneficial to the individual.

I also see that an individual organism with a mutation or variation that provides an advantage would likely do better at surviving and breeding. Which in turn would pass on this genetic mutation or variation.

I'll ask you the same question I asked the other gentlemen since you just posted what you did .

What question is that? I am happy to discuss the topic. I also know we don't know all the answers.

What trait in humans can we prove came from a mutation ? How do we know this trait did not exist in the gene pool ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Asking for a negative to be proven?

What is wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me but if you can't show trait changes from mutations your theory is dead in the water. If you can how do you know the trait did not already exist in the gene pool ? That is a perfectly reasonable request.

To the bolded, no it is not.

If you had a better grasp on what a scientific theory is, you would know that.

To the underlined, no one knows as PROVING A NEGATIVE IS ILLOGICAL.

Please don't go there because I disagree with you.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If you want to believe that God waved his hand and everything came into existence, then do so. But to claim that this is using "reason" is nonsense.

The current scientific theories are the best answers we have, and they use reason to accomplish these theories.

One point, concerning your complain about the Big Bang, science has never claimed that there was ever a time when nothing existed. The Big Bang was an explosion of existing matter. Why must there be a "before matter existed"? You are putting limitations in that are not based on any factual information.

You are not familiar with the theory that you can't have time without matter and that time began with the big bang supposedly ?

So where did the matter come from that caused the big bang.

Are you saying the universe and all matter is eternal ?

Well, since there is no such SCIENTIFIC theory how could they?
What science actually says is time exists only in terms of MOTION.

And the PROVEN First Law of Thermodynamics says that ENERGY can neither be created nor destroyed. That means that energy has always existed and will always exist in the same total quantity. That seems pretty eternal to me. How about you???

It is the theory of relativity.

 

[Youwerecreated]

It makes me very frustrated when activists hijack the word “reason” to describe the belief that there is definitely no higher power and that everything they we see around us is the the product of random chance.

The theories of evolution and big bang are just “theories”. Evolution is based on random mutations. The big bang theory does not explain how the ingredients for the big bang were created. Did something come from nothing? Did life arise from inanimate objects by chance and it can’t be duplicated on purpose in a laboratory? These theories seem silly to me.

There are many, many theories about how God created the universe and life aside from the satirical theory that you mention. But my main belief is that God knows things that we are not capable of understanding.

Did you know that if a monkey sat at a typewriter for the entire life of the universe (about 14 billion years) and typed random letters continuously, he would never write a novel by random chance. IMHO it is unreasonable to conclude that the trillions of cells in our body that make up complicated organs that all work together came to be from random mutations over a period of several hundred million years. Although we witness many species going extinct, no one has ever witnessed the creation of a new species. The only thing scientists have observed are mutations within a species.

IMHO the most reasonable theory is that a power beyond our understanding created all that we see.

Well, according to Creation, everything came from nothing!
No thing (God) created everything from nothing.
Or are you claiming that God is a thing, and if so what thing is God?

According to creation God created matter time began. Which is when life started and matter is what everything is made up of.

 

[garyganu]

The concept that evolution occurs is a fact. The only theories involve how the process occurs. The fact that evolution occurs is supported by fossil, geologic and now, most importantly, DNA evidence

Sadly, there is no such evidence that God exists

Please document your claim that evolution is a fact. Please link to a reputable scientific source. I have never heard this claim before and I would like to learn.

Ever heard of a hybrid species? thats evolution happening right before your eyes.

As far as I know, hybrid animals are sterile, they can not reproduce.

A mule is an example of a hybrid animal. It is a cross between a horse and a donkey. Mules can not reproduce. Mules do not perpetuate their species.

There are also many hybrid plants that are used for crops. These too cannot reproduce. Their seeds will bear no plants.

 

[rightwinger]

It makes me very frustrated when activists hijack the word “reason” to describe the belief that there is definitely no higher power and that everything they we see around us is the the product of random chance.

The theories of evolution and big bang are just “theories”. Evolution is based on random mutations. The big bang theory does not explain how the ingredients for the big bang were created. Did something come from nothing? Did life arise from inanimate objects by chance and it can’t be duplicated on purpose in a laboratory? These theories seem silly to me.

There are many, many theories about how God created the universe and life aside from the satirical theory that you mention. But my main belief is that God knows things that we are not capable of understanding.

Did you know that if a monkey sat at a typewriter for the entire life of the universe (about 14 billion years) and typed random letters continuously, he would never write a novel by random chance. IMHO it is unreasonable to conclude that the trillions of cells in our body that make up complicated organs that all work together came to be from random mutations over a period of several hundred million years. Although we witness many species going extinct, no one has ever witnessed the creation of a new species. The only thing scientists have observed are mutations within a species.

IMHO the most reasonable theory is that a power beyond our understanding created all that we see.

Well, according to Creation, everything came from nothing!
No thing (God) created everything from nothing.
Or are you claiming that God is a thing, and if so what thing is God?

According to creation God created matter time began. Which is when life started and matter is what everything is made up of.

How did god create matter from nothing?

What scientific proof do you have on the creation of matter?

 

[edthecynic]

You are not familiar with the theory that you can't have time without matter and that time began with the big bang supposedly ?

So where did the matter come from that caused the big bang.

Are you saying the universe and all matter is eternal ?

Well, since there is no such SCIENTIFIC theory how could they?
What science actually says is time exists only in terms of MOTION.

And the PROVEN First Law of Thermodynamics says that ENERGY can neither be created nor destroyed. That means that energy has always existed and will always exist in the same total quantity. That seems pretty eternal to me. How about you???

It is the theory of relativity.

The theory of relativity is the relationship of energy to matter not time, e=mc2.
But thank you for proving you understand nothing about science and are just throwing around terms that are completely meaningless to you.

 

[edthecynic]

It makes me very frustrated when activists hijack the word “reason” to describe the belief that there is definitely no higher power and that everything they we see around us is the the product of random chance.

The theories of evolution and big bang are just “theories”. Evolution is based on random mutations. The big bang theory does not explain how the ingredients for the big bang were created. Did something come from nothing? Did life arise from inanimate objects by chance and it can’t be duplicated on purpose in a laboratory? These theories seem silly to me.

There are many, many theories about how God created the universe and life aside from the satirical theory that you mention. But my main belief is that God knows things that we are not capable of understanding.

Did you know that if a monkey sat at a typewriter for the entire life of the universe (about 14 billion years) and typed random letters continuously, he would never write a novel by random chance. IMHO it is unreasonable to conclude that the trillions of cells in our body that make up complicated organs that all work together came to be from random mutations over a period of several hundred million years. Although we witness many species going extinct, no one has ever witnessed the creation of a new species. The only thing scientists have observed are mutations within a species.

IMHO the most reasonable theory is that a power beyond our understanding created all that we see.

Well, according to Creation, everything came from nothing!
No thing (God) created everything from nothing.
Or are you claiming that God is a thing, and if so what thing is God?

According to creation God created matter time began. Which is when life started and matter is what everything is made up of.

Everything is energy which cannot be created nor destroyed and existed before your God was created.

 

[edthecynic]

He has always existed. He is also a spirit is a spirit made up of matter I don't know. If God created all things he existed outside of time and matter as we know of it. Humans know very little concerning the universe and the origins of life.

'He has always existed'...since when?

He is eternal without a beginning and without end.

Prove it.

 

[garyganu]

Are you sure???
Isn't simple Hydrogen fusing into the more complex Helium in the Sun????
Why yes, yes it is.

He is right, sorta. The sun is growing more ordered.

Solar fusion of hydrogen take three atoms (simplified for atom economics, 2H -> D then D+H -> He) and combines them into one (He). Two less atoms moving is more ordered than three moving. So, entropy decreases with solar fusion reactions.

It's one of those thermodynamic laws.

Except he is arguing the opposite, that the Sun is becoming more random and therefore less ordered.

The law of entropy applies to a "closed system". In a closed system, energy and matter do not enter or leave the system.

The sun is an open system. Energy and particles are constantly leaving the sun.

Also, the energy stored in the sun is constantly decreasing because it is being dispersed to the planets and outer space. This dispersal of energy is an increase in entropy.

The law of entropy states that everything seeks a state of equilibrium.

 

[WinterBorn]

He is right, sorta. The sun is growing more ordered.

Solar fusion of hydrogen take three atoms (simplified for atom economics, 2H -> D then D+H -> He) and combines them into one (He). Two less atoms moving is more ordered than three moving. So, entropy decreases with solar fusion reactions.

It's one of those thermodynamic laws.

Except he is arguing the opposite, that the Sun is becoming more random and therefore less ordered.

The law of entropy applies to a "closed system". In a closed system, energy and matter do not enter or leave the system.

The sun is an open system. Energy and particles are constantly leaving the sun.

Also, the energy stored in the sun is constantly decreasing because it is being dispersed to the planets and outer space. This dispersal of energy is an increase in entropy.

The law of entropy states that everything seeks a state of equilibrium.

The universe is a closed system.