It is absurd to use the word "REASON" to describe Atheism.

[Youwerecreated]

If you want to believe that God waved his hand and everything came into existence, then do so. But to claim that this is using "reason" is nonsense.

The current scientific theories are the best answers we have, and they use reason to accomplish these theories.

One point, concerning your complain about the Big Bang, science has never claimed that there was ever a time when nothing existed. The Big Bang was an explosion of existing matter. Why must there be a "before matter existed"? You are putting limitations in that are not based on any factual information.

You are not familiar with the theory that you can't have time without matter and that time began with the big bang supposedly ?

So where did the matter come from that caused the big bang.

Are you saying the universe and all matter is eternal ?

I have no problem saying that the universe and all matter is eternal. That there is constant change is also easily seen. But there is no need to believe that there was a time before the universe existed.

what do you base the view on ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Can you document that your claim "god" exists...and that "it" created the universe?

If you wish to ignore evidence of design that is your choice.

Please feel free to document the facts that "god" exists as well.

I can't prove or disprove Gods existence but I can see evidence that suggests a higher power.

 

[WinterBorn]

You are not familiar with the theory that you can't have time without matter and that time began with the big bang supposedly ?

So where did the matter come from that caused the big bang.

Are you saying the universe and all matter is eternal ?

I have no problem saying that the universe and all matter is eternal. That there is constant change is also easily seen. But there is no need to believe that there was a time before the universe existed.

what do you base the view on ?

I base it on the fact that I have seen no evidence that there should be a beginning or an end of matter itself.

You claim that God has always existed, and yet you also claim the universe and the matter in it cannot have always existed.

You have no evidence of either.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Human genome has been mapped and similarities to other species fully documented. The fact that evolution occurs is not in question. The mechanics of evolution is still theory. However, it's theory is still more scientific than any wild theories of a magic man in the sky

I hope you don't think that was an answer to my question.

Sorry....not going to play chicken or the egg paradox with you.

I'm also not going to recount a Biology 101 textbook with you as you whine..." How can you prove it?" after each paragraph.

The mapping of the species both biologically and genetically is well established. Any evidence of god is based on faith and mythology. That the existence of god even meets the broad criteria of a theory is debatable. Evolution is not

Didn't expect you to once the questions get tough.

 

[WinterBorn]

WinterBorn. Human beings understand a tiny fraction of the knowledge of the universe. Would you agree that human knowledge comprises less than .0000000000000000001% of all the facts about the universe and the life in it?

Do you think that it is unreasonable to believe that everything that we see around us was created by a power greater than ourselves who has understanding beyond our comprehension? Is it possible that this higher power set evolution in play and initiated the big bang?

Part of what I am saying is that God and evolution and the big bang are not necessarily mutually exclusive. No one knows. I am also saying that it is very "cocky" to rule out the possibility that God exists.

Ok, so call them cocky, or arrogant or whatever. But what you actually said was that it is absurd to use the word "reason" to describe atheists.

Now, however much we know from scientific research, it is reason that gave us this knowlege. And it is reason which taught us to question everything in the first place.

To claim that they do not use reason, and then claim that God could have done all of this, is laughable.

To suggest that evolutionist use reason to say nonintelligence brought forth intelligence is absurd. To suggest that everything we see is a product of chaos is absurd. Humans think,reason,design, and build. Homes,cars,and computers did not design themselves. So why do you draw the line of that reason when it comes to the universe and life ?

I can see that individual living things are different from their parents, and that some individual living things are born with mutations.

I know that the overwhelming majority of mutations are not beneficial, but that there are some mutations or variations that are beneficial to the individual.

I also see that an individual organism with a mutation or variation that provides an advantage would likely do better at surviving and breeding. Which in turn would pass on this genetic mutation or variation.

 

[idb]

If you wish to ignore evidence of design that is your choice.

Show me the label and I might believe it.

How bout the complexity of the first cell ? You really think that all the substances that make up a cell could form itself ? If you do explain how it happened ?

Sure they could...but as you have said, we can't know everything so I'm not going to try to explain I don't understand...same as you it's a matter of faith.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I have no problem saying that the universe and all matter is eternal. That there is constant change is also easily seen. But there is no need to believe that there was a time before the universe existed.

what do you base the view on ?

I base it on the fact that I have seen no evidence that there should be a beginning or an end of matter itself.

You claim that God has always existed, and yet you also claim the universe and the matter in it cannot have always existed.

You have no evidence of either.

You see I I have no reason to doubt the scriptures. don't have a problem admitting some of my views are based in faith,how bout you ? I have no reason to doubt what the scriptures say.

 

[rightwinger]

I hope you don't think that was an answer to my question.

Sorry....not going to play chicken or the egg paradox with you.

I'm also not going to recount a Biology 101 textbook with you as you whine..." How can you prove it?" after each paragraph.

The mapping of the species both biologically and genetically is well established. Any evidence of god is based on faith and mythology. That the existence of god even meets the broad criteria of a theory is debatable. Evolution is not

Didn't expect you to once the questions get tough.

Your questions are not tough. They are coy games of "you can't prove exactly how we got from point A to point B". Again, that is your sole purpose on this board as you retread creationist blogs.

Obfuscation is not proof.

 

[idb]

You are not familiar with the theory that you can't have time without matter and that time began with the big bang supposedly ?

So where did the matter come from that caused the big bang.

Are you saying the universe and all matter is eternal ?

Where did God come from?

He has always existed. He is also a spirit is a spirit made up of matter I don't know. If God created all things he existed outside of time and matter as we know of it. Humans know very little concerning the universe and the origins of life.

'He has always existed'...since when?

 

[WinterBorn]

what do you base the view on ?

I base it on the fact that I have seen no evidence that there should be a beginning or an end of matter itself.

You claim that God has always existed, and yet you also claim the universe and the matter in it cannot have always existed.

You have no evidence of either.

You see I I have no reason to doubt the scriptures. don't have a problem admitting some of my views are based in faith,how bout you ? I have no reason to doubt what the scriptures say.

I have no problem with your faith. I have faith of my own.

But to claim that science and atheistism do not use reason, while claiming that a book written by a nomadic tribe between 2 and 4 thousand years ago provides you with all the answers, is not exactly using reason.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Ok, so call them cocky, or arrogant or whatever. But what you actually said was that it is absurd to use the word "reason" to describe atheists.

Now, however much we know from scientific research, it is reason that gave us this knowlege. And it is reason which taught us to question everything in the first place.

To claim that they do not use reason, and then claim that God could have done all of this, is laughable.

To suggest that evolutionist use reason to say nonintelligence brought forth intelligence is absurd. To suggest that everything we see is a product of chaos is absurd. Humans think,reason,design, and build. Homes,cars,and computers did not design themselves. So why do you draw the line of that reason when it comes to the universe and life ?

I can see that individual living things are different from their parents, and that some individual living things are born with mutations.

I know that the overwhelming majority of mutations are not beneficial, but that there are some mutations or variations that are beneficial to the individual.

I also see that an individual organism with a mutation or variation that provides an advantage would likely do better at surviving and breeding. Which in turn would pass on this genetic mutation or variation.

I'll ask you the same question I asked the other gentlemen since you just posted what you did .

 

[Youwerecreated]

Show me the label and I might believe it.

How bout the complexity of the first cell ? You really think that all the substances that make up a cell could form itself ? If you do explain how it happened ?

Sure they could...but as you have said, we can't know everything so I'm not going to try to explain I don't understand...same as you it's a matter of faith.

Fair enough not too many would admit it takes faith because they believe it to be a fact.

 

[syrenn]

If you wish to ignore evidence of design that is your choice.

Please feel free to document the facts that "god" exists as well.

I can't prove or disprove Gods existence but I can see evidence that suggests a higher power.

Then what you have is a faith based opinion attributing what you see to a higher power. Why not space aliens? Ghosts?

 

[WinterBorn]

To suggest that evolutionist use reason to say nonintelligence brought forth intelligence is absurd. To suggest that everything we see is a product of chaos is absurd. Humans think,reason,design, and build. Homes,cars,and computers did not design themselves. So why do you draw the line of that reason when it comes to the universe and life ?

I can see that individual living things are different from their parents, and that some individual living things are born with mutations.

I know that the overwhelming majority of mutations are not beneficial, but that there are some mutations or variations that are beneficial to the individual.

I also see that an individual organism with a mutation or variation that provides an advantage would likely do better at surviving and breeding. Which in turn would pass on this genetic mutation or variation.

I'll ask you the same question I asked the other gentlemen since you just posted what you did .

What question is that? I am happy to discuss the topic. I also know we don't know all the answers.

 

[Si modo]

If Macroevolution is a fact you should be able to show one trait in humans that came from a mutation,can you do this ?

Now if you make the claim that a mutation caused a trait you have to prove this trait did not already exist in the Gene pool.

Asking for a negative to be proven?

What is wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me but if you can't show trait changes from mutations your theory is dead in the water. If you can how do you know the trait did not already exist in the gene pool ? That is a perfectly reasonable request.

To the bolded, no it is not.

If you had a better grasp on what a scientific theory is, you would know that.

To the underlined, no one knows as PROVING A NEGATIVE IS ILLOGICAL.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Sorry....not going to play chicken or the egg paradox with you.

I'm also not going to recount a Biology 101 textbook with you as you whine..." How can you prove it?" after each paragraph.

The mapping of the species both biologically and genetically is well established. Any evidence of god is based on faith and mythology. That the existence of god even meets the broad criteria of a theory is debatable. Evolution is not

Didn't expect you to once the questions get tough.

Your questions are not tough. They are coy games of "you can't prove exactly how we got from point A to point B". Again, that is your sole purpose on this board as you retread creationist blogs.

Obfuscation is not proof.

Really I don't need creation blogs to put you in your place. Maybe you need to learn what is factual before you call it a fact.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I have to turn in ,I will respond to your comments tomorrow. Have a good night all.

 

[nitroz]

I have to turn in ,I will respond to your comments tomorrow. Have a good night all.

Night

 

[edthecynic]

It makes me very frustrated when activists hijack the word “reason” to describe the belief that there is definitely no higher power and that everything they we see around us is the the product of random chance.

The theories of evolution and big bang are just “theories”. Evolution is based on random mutations. The big bang theory does not explain how the ingredients for the big bang were created. Did something come from nothing? Did life arise from inanimate objects by chance and it can’t be duplicated on purpose in a laboratory? These theories seem silly to me.

There are many, many theories about how God created the universe and life aside from the satirical theory that you mention. But my main belief is that God knows things that we are not capable of understanding.

Did you know that if a monkey sat at a typewriter for the entire life of the universe (about 14 billion years) and typed random letters continuously, he would never write a novel by random chance. IMHO it is unreasonable to conclude that the trillions of cells in our body that make up complicated organs that all work together came to be from random mutations over a period of several hundred million years. Although we witness many species going extinct, no one has ever witnessed the creation of a new species. The only thing scientists have observed are mutations within a species.

IMHO the most reasonable theory is that a power beyond our understanding created all that we see.

If you want to believe that God waved his hand and everything came into existence, then do so. But to claim that this is using "reason" is nonsense.

The current scientific theories are the best answers we have, and they use reason to accomplish these theories.

One point, concerning your complain about the Big Bang, science has never claimed that there was ever a time when nothing existed. The Big Bang was an explosion of existing matter. Why must there be a "before matter existed"? You are putting limitations in that are not based on any factual information.

You are not familiar with the theory that you can't have time without matter and that time began with the big bang supposedly ?

So where did the matter come from that caused the big bang.

Are you saying the universe and all matter is eternal ?

Well, since there is no such SCIENTIFIC theory how could they?
What science actually says is time exists only in terms of MOTION.

And the PROVEN First Law of Thermodynamics says that ENERGY can neither be created nor destroyed. That means that energy has always existed and will always exist in the same total quantity. That seems pretty eternal to me. How about you???

 

[edthecynic]

(Atheists)...hijack the word “reason” to describe the belief that there is definitely no higher power...

After all, all that we see evolves from the simple to the complex. It would therefore stand against reason that a hyper-evolved entity created life.

Your statement is exactly backwards. The law of "entropy" states that everything devolves into a more random state over time. This is why everything that humanity ever built will eventually deteriorate. Even the sun and the earth are eroding and devolving into a simpler state.

Are you sure???
Isn't simple Hydrogen fusing into the more complex Helium in the Sun????
Why yes, yes it is.