Israel wants its spy back

[Indofred]

Very fair, but then muslims don't see this as fair at all and see it as racism against islam.

But, I'm a Muslim and I posted it.
Given that, I suspect your reply might well be in error.

 

[Indofred]

Let's be honest here. Do you think that many of the posters here would be interested in this man if he even gave away the whole barn and if he happened to not be Jewish?
Korean Spy Case Called More Serious Than Was Thought - New York Times

Bitter South Koreans Rally Behind Spy Convicted in U.S. - Los Angeles Times

Naval Analyst Charged With Spying For S. Korea - Chicago Tribune

My OP applies just as much to Koreans, or US citizens working for Korea.
A traitor is a traitor, not an excuse for other traitors.

 

[Hossfly]

Let's be honest here. Do you think that many of the posters here would be interested in this man if he even gave away the whole barn and if he happened to not be Jewish?
Korean Spy Case Called More Serious Than Was Thought - New York Times

Bitter South Koreans Rally Behind Spy Convicted in U.S. - Los Angeles Times

Naval Analyst Charged With Spying For S. Korea - Chicago Tribune

My OP applies just as much to Koreans, or US citizens working for Korea.
A traitor is a traitor, not an excuse for other traitors.

You can claim whatever you want to, Fred, but I and I think many others here realize that if the spy had been other than a Jew you would not have mentioned it. By the way, since you made a post about a spy here, just recently a Chinese man was picked up here. Did you post about this spy on the Asia forum, or wasn't that spy important enough for you to mention?

 

[Indofred]

By the way, since you made a post about a spy here, just recently a Chinese man was picked up here. Did you post about this spy on the Asia forum, or wasn't that spy important enough for you to mention?

I was unaware of it.
Perhaps you could post a link.

I did find a couple of links, one being to an American traitor in the white house, selling secrets to China, but that may not be the one you're thinking of.
If US citizens do it, regardless of who they do it for, prison, or execution seems fair.

Of course, America also spies on China
Snowden US Spies On China s Universities and Mobile Firms The Diplomat
Presumably using Chinese citizens to gain information.
Same goes for them.

 

[Hossfly]

By the way, since you made a post about a spy here, just recently a Chinese man was picked up here. Did you post about this spy on the Asia forum, or wasn't that spy important enough for you to mention?

I was unaware of it.
Perhaps you could post a link.

I did find a couple of links, one being to an American traitor in the white house, selling secrets to China, but that may not be the one you're thinking of.
If US citizens do it, regardless of who they do it for, prison, or execution seems fair.

Of course, America also spies on China
Snowden US Spies On China s Universities and Mobile Firms The Diplomat
Presumably using Chinese citizens to gain information.
Same goes for them.

I think we are all aware that most countries spy on other countries, but of course. you were not aware of this Chinese spy. Perhaps if he had been Jewish, you would have noticed him. How about the recent news about the Muslim Navy engineer who tried to steal U.S. arms carrier tech data and plotted missile strikes? Why not go to some forum and post about him since you are into spies.

 

[montelatici]

Of course, you support spying on the US as long as it is Israel.

 

[Hossfly]

Of course, you support spying on the US as long as it is Israel.

That's hoss crap.

 

[Indofred]

Perhaps if he had been Jewish, you would have noticed him

I didn't notice him, but no because of who he is, but because I'm very tired as a result of having a new baby in the house, thus I have been unable to focus on the usual number of news outlets, having to make do with only the top 6 or so each day.
I try to spread them around, but I just haven't had time for all the US, Chinese and Russian sites I usually look through.

 

[toastman]

Of course, you support spying on the US as long as it is Israel.

You're a lying propagandist who constantly puts words is peoples mouths.

 

[Phoenall]

If Pollard truly did this out of a misguided sense of loyalty to Israel, I might feel more lenient but he didn't.

Perhaps. But the moment he asked Israel not to release him because of American pressure, because he doesn't want Israelis suffering because of him (the deal was his release in exchange of Palestinian prisoners' release from Israeli jails), he is automatically enters the Israeli lists as a righteous.

Righteous? Even though his actions cost his country a lot of damage?

No. I can't agree with that at all. It strikes me more as grandstanding.

What damage ?

 

[Billo_Really]

That fucker needs to rot in a US jail until he's worm food. In fact, instead of releasing him, they should put a camera in his cell and film him 24/7, then upload it to a cable network so Israeli's can sit there and watch him rot day by day, hour by hour, minute to minute.

 

[Phoenall]

I don't feel sympathetic to any spies. They profited off their greed by selling out their country. Why should he be released early?

How is 30 years considered 'early'?

And how come an "Israeli spy" is punished with 30 years, but Iranian spy gets out before you can blink?

Yeah, tell us more about how friendly is the American government.

Each case is different. Why SHOULD he be released? He didn't just spy for Israel. That's the strawman here. He shopped his services to other countries and information he sold ended up in other countries such as USSR, Pakistan.

If Pollard is being punished because he's Jewish, why was Ben-ami - another Israeli spy caught in the same time frame - released with a fine?

Maybe the Judge wasn't as anti-Semitic as the one who sentenced Pollard ?

What does anti-semitism have to do with it? Look at what he did. You are a Brit - if he did that to your country would you feel sympathetic to early release? Counter to the recommendations of your security people? What if he were Saudi - they're an ally - would you clamor for his early release?

Why not the filth of islam that mass murders British women and children usually end up with minimal sentences and are out walking the streets in less than 5 years. The British security people complain about the lenient sentences and being stopped from keeping them under surveillance. No longer JUSTICE in the British system as P.C. has made it impossible to sentence migrants to prison under human rights laws

 

[Phoenall]

That fucker needs to rot in a US jail until he's worm food. In fact, instead of releasing him, they should put a camera in his cell and film him 24/7, then upload it to a cable network so Israeli's can sit there and watch him rot day by day, hour by hour, minute to minute.

Maybe we should do the same to you, and tout it as the new comedy show. Only problem it would need so much editing to cut out the self abuse.

Now explain again how it is that you are not a Jew hater after this outburst ?

 

[Billo_Really]

Maybe we should do the same to you, and tout it as the new comedy show. Only problem it would need so much editing to cut out the self abuse.

If you ever went to prison, you'd be a "tossed salad!"

Now explain again how it is that you are not a Jew hater after this outburst ?

He spied for the Israeli's, not the Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

Maybe we should do the same to you, and tout it as the new comedy show. Only problem it would need so much editing to cut out the self abuse.

If you ever went to prison, you'd be a "tossed salad!"

Now explain again how it is that you are not a Jew hater after this outburst ?

He spied for the Israeli's, not the Jews.

Wrong again dildo as he spied for anyone that would pay him, including the Russians.

So once again do explain how it is that you are not a Jew hater after the outburst above.

 

[Coyote]

If Pollard truly did this out of a misguided sense of loyalty to Israel, I might feel more lenient but he didn't.

Perhaps. But the moment he asked Israel not to release him because of American pressure, because he doesn't want Israelis suffering because of him (the deal was his release in exchange of Palestinian prisoners' release from Israeli jails), he is automatically enters the Israeli lists as a righteous.

Righteous? Even though his actions cost his country a lot of damage?

No. I can't agree with that at all. It strikes me more as grandstanding.

Israelis view Pollard in an Israeli POV, and what we see from Israel is that he refused to be released in exchange of Palestinian killers being released. Most responses on MEDIA were extremely supportive of him, and crowned him a hero, no less, for that.

That's something that might piss you guys off, being Americans, and It's understandable, it is, but I guess we see it differently. You know how many people saw Va'anunu as a hero, after he betrayed us and released information? Many of us think of him as a creep, yet many Americans still idolize him. If that's fair then, fair is fair.

I'm just saying.

I never heard of Va'anunu.

But I understand the different national perspectives

 

[Coyote]

I don't feel sympathetic to any spies. They profited off their greed by selling out their country. Why should he be released early?

How is 30 years considered 'early'?

And how come an "Israeli spy" is punished with 30 years, but Iranian spy gets out before you can blink?

Yeah, tell us more about how friendly is the American government.

Each case is different. Why SHOULD he be released? He didn't just spy for Israel. That's the strawman here. He shopped his services to other countries and information he sold ended up in other countries such as USSR, Pakistan.

If Pollard is being punished because he's Jewish, why was Ben-ami - another Israeli spy caught in the same time frame - released with a fine?

Maybe the Judge wasn't as anti-Semitic as the one who sentenced Pollard ?

What does anti-semitism have to do with it? Look at what he did. You are a Brit - if he did that to your country would you feel sympathetic to early release? Counter to the recommendations of your security people? What if he were Saudi - they're an ally - would you clamor for his early release?

Let's be honest here. Do you think that many of the posters here would be interested in this man if he even gave away the whole barn and if he happened to not be Jewish? Pollard is a big issue with the anti-Semitics and other spies are just not important to them.

Ok...let's be honest. If he wasn't Jewish, would some of the posters here even care if he had to serve his full term? (they aren't agitating for the release of any other spies) This cuts both ways. Lipush's response is the most honest because she is an Israeli and she see's it from her national perspective. I can appreciate that even though I don't agree.

What makes me less then sympathetic is this: he caused damage. He shopped his information in order to get the best price. He sold information to multiple countries. He was involved in illegal arms dealings (who would have been the recipients had he been successful?). When I read up on him, there was mention of another Israeli spy that was released with only a fine. He caused far less damage and he while both claimed to do it out of a misguided sense of loyalty, it's quite clear that Pollard's was not that but was primarily economic. That makes me sympathetic to one but not the other.

Do you think that it would have bothered some of the posters that this Kim was only given 7 years, released after 6, and the South Koreans were angry that he was even given any sentence? Nobody likes to hear about anyone spying in this country and handing over documents to others. However, it has been obvious throughout the years that only Pollard has any importance to some of the posters.

Korean Spy Case Called More Serious Than Was Thought - New York Times

Bitter South Koreans Rally Behind Spy Convicted in U.S. - Los Angeles Times

Naval Analyst Charged With Spying For S. Korea - Chicago Tribune

It probably would not have bothered some - however, the question can likewise be asked: Do you think some of the posters here would be advocating for his release or calling it racism if he were not Jewish?

 

[Coyote]

I don't feel sympathetic to any spies. They profited off their greed by selling out their country. Why should he be released early?

How is 30 years considered 'early'?

And how come an "Israeli spy" is punished with 30 years, but Iranian spy gets out before you can blink?

Yeah, tell us more about how friendly is the American government.

Each case is different. Why SHOULD he be released? He didn't just spy for Israel. That's the strawman here. He shopped his services to other countries and information he sold ended up in other countries such as USSR, Pakistan.

If Pollard is being punished because he's Jewish, why was Ben-ami - another Israeli spy caught in the same time frame - released with a fine?

Maybe the Judge wasn't as anti-Semitic as the one who sentenced Pollard ?

What does anti-semitism have to do with it? Look at what he did. You are a Brit - if he did that to your country would you feel sympathetic to early release? Counter to the recommendations of your security people? What if he were Saudi - they're an ally - would you clamor for his early release?

Why not the filth of islam that mass murders British women and children usually end up with minimal sentences and are out walking the streets in less than 5 years. The British security people complain about the lenient sentences and being stopped from keeping them under surveillance. No longer JUSTICE in the British system as P.C. has made it impossible to sentence migrants to prison under human rights laws

Now you're going off on a totally different topic.

 

[Hossfly]

How is 30 years considered 'early'?

And how come an "Israeli spy" is punished with 30 years, but Iranian spy gets out before you can blink?

Yeah, tell us more about how friendly is the American government.

Each case is different. Why SHOULD he be released? He didn't just spy for Israel. That's the strawman here. He shopped his services to other countries and information he sold ended up in other countries such as USSR, Pakistan.

If Pollard is being punished because he's Jewish, why was Ben-ami - another Israeli spy caught in the same time frame - released with a fine?

Maybe the Judge wasn't as anti-Semitic as the one who sentenced Pollard ?

What does anti-semitism have to do with it? Look at what he did. You are a Brit - if he did that to your country would you feel sympathetic to early release? Counter to the recommendations of your security people? What if he were Saudi - they're an ally - would you clamor for his early release?

Let's be honest here. Do you think that many of the posters here would be interested in this man if he even gave away the whole barn and if he happened to not be Jewish? Pollard is a big issue with the anti-Semitics and other spies are just not important to them.

Ok...let's be honest. If he wasn't Jewish, would some of the posters here even care if he had to serve his full term? (they aren't agitating for the release of any other spies) This cuts both ways. Lipush's response is the most honest because she is an Israeli and she see's it from her national perspective. I can appreciate that even though I don't agree.

What makes me less then sympathetic is this: he caused damage. He shopped his information in order to get the best price. He sold information to multiple countries. He was involved in illegal arms dealings (who would have been the recipients had he been successful?). When I read up on him, there was mention of another Israeli spy that was released with only a fine. He caused far less damage and he while both claimed to do it out of a misguided sense of loyalty, it's quite clear that Pollard's was not that but was primarily economic. That makes me sympathetic to one but not the other.

Do you think that it would have bothered some of the posters that this Kim was only given 7 years, released after 6, and the South Koreans were angry that he was even given any sentence? Nobody likes to hear about anyone spying in this country and handing over documents to others. However, it has been obvious throughout the years that only Pollard has any importance to some of the posters.

Korean Spy Case Called More Serious Than Was Thought - New York Times

Bitter South Koreans Rally Behind Spy Convicted in U.S. - Los Angeles Times

Naval Analyst Charged With Spying For S. Korea - Chicago Tribune

It probably would not have bothered some - however, the question can likewise be asked: Do you think some of the posters here would be advocating for his release or calling it racism if he were not Jewish?

A question for you since it was a Muslim who first brought up this thread about Pollard. Do you think that he would have started a thread if the spy had been a Muslim? Has he ever brought up any Muslim spy or terrorist on any forums who happened to be caught here? He certainly is very quiet about Palestinians and their fellow travelers demanding murderers be released from Israeli prisons

 

[Coyote]

Each case is different. Why SHOULD he be released? He didn't just spy for Israel. That's the strawman here. He shopped his services to other countries and information he sold ended up in other countries such as USSR, Pakistan.

If Pollard is being punished because he's Jewish, why was Ben-ami - another Israeli spy caught in the same time frame - released with a fine?

Maybe the Judge wasn't as anti-Semitic as the one who sentenced Pollard ?

What does anti-semitism have to do with it? Look at what he did. You are a Brit - if he did that to your country would you feel sympathetic to early release? Counter to the recommendations of your security people? What if he were Saudi - they're an ally - would you clamor for his early release?

Let's be honest here. Do you think that many of the posters here would be interested in this man if he even gave away the whole barn and if he happened to not be Jewish? Pollard is a big issue with the anti-Semitics and other spies are just not important to them.

Ok...let's be honest. If he wasn't Jewish, would some of the posters here even care if he had to serve his full term? (they aren't agitating for the release of any other spies) This cuts both ways. Lipush's response is the most honest because she is an Israeli and she see's it from her national perspective. I can appreciate that even though I don't agree.

What makes me less then sympathetic is this: he caused damage. He shopped his information in order to get the best price. He sold information to multiple countries. He was involved in illegal arms dealings (who would have been the recipients had he been successful?). When I read up on him, there was mention of another Israeli spy that was released with only a fine. He caused far less damage and he while both claimed to do it out of a misguided sense of loyalty, it's quite clear that Pollard's was not that but was primarily economic. That makes me sympathetic to one but not the other.

Do you think that it would have bothered some of the posters that this Kim was only given 7 years, released after 6, and the South Koreans were angry that he was even given any sentence? Nobody likes to hear about anyone spying in this country and handing over documents to others. However, it has been obvious throughout the years that only Pollard has any importance to some of the posters.

Korean Spy Case Called More Serious Than Was Thought - New York Times

Bitter South Koreans Rally Behind Spy Convicted in U.S. - Los Angeles Times

Naval Analyst Charged With Spying For S. Korea - Chicago Tribune

It probably would not have bothered some - however, the question can likewise be asked: Do you think some of the posters here would be advocating for his release or calling it racism if he were not Jewish?

A question for you since it was a Muslim who first brought up this thread about Pollard. Do you think that he would have started a thread if the spy had been a Muslim? Has he ever brought up any Muslim spy or terrorist on any forums who happened to be caught here? He certainly is very quiet about Palestinians and their fellow travelers demanding murderers be released from Israeli prisons

Agree with you.

Now let me ask: How many here would have been calling for his release if he had been a Muslim?