Israel & Palestine & The Bible

Quote: Originally Posted by alexa
.............
I certainly believe that the Palestinians have been extremely traumatised and to be frank dehumanised

Jews were known as Palestinians prior to Israeli statehood during the British Mandate? The Jerusalem Post was known as the Palestine Post

Who are your Palestinians, twat?
 
^ So what?

Your point? So what if they are not in the bible. They are on the ground. They have babies born in multi-generational succession.

Through no course of their own, they are bonded to the land and they were bonded to the land while Jews were also bonded to the land.

I ask you again JStone. Who is the creator of nations?

Your argument is specious. It fails to hold any logic and is only the rhetoric of war. I refuse to create that rhetoric. I tried when I first came here. It's not me.

Sadly, it's you.
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by alexa
.............
I certainly believe that the Palestinians have been extremely traumatised and to be frank dehumanised

Twat, the Arabs are the biggest traumatizers and dehumanizers in the world.

Wall Street Journal: "The Arab World's Dirty Secret".
As Israelis and Palestinians prepare to visit Washington next week to begin direct peace talks, it's worth recalling what refugees the Palestinians are—in Arab countries.

Last week, Lebanon's parliament amended a clause in a 1946 law that had been used to bar the 400,000 Palestinians living in the country from taking any but the most menial jobs. "I was born in Lebanon and I have never known Palestine," the AP quoted one 45-year-old Palestinian who works as a cab driver. "We want to live like Lebanese. We are human beings and we need civil rights."

The dirty little secret of the Arab world is that it has consistently treated Palestinians living in its midst with contempt and often violence. In 1970, Jordan expelled thousands of Palestinian militants after Yasser Arafat attempted a coup against King Hussein. In 1991, Kuwait expelled some 400,000 Palestinians working in the country as punishment for Arafat's support for Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War.

For six decades, Palestinians have been forced by Arab governments to live in often squalid conditions so that they could serve as propaganda tools against Israel, even as millions of refugees elsewhere have been repatriated and absorbed by their host countries. This month's vote still falls short of giving Palestinian Lebanese the rights they deserve, including citizenship. But it's a reminder of the cynicism of so much Arab pro-Palestinian propaganda, and the credulity of those who fall for it.

The Huffington Riposte: WHO ARE THE GREATEST PERSECUTORS OF THE PALESTINIANS? NOT ISRAEL, IT IS THE REST OF THE ARAB WORLD
 
^ So what?

Your point? So what if they are not in the bible. They are on the ground. They have babies born in multi-generational succession.

Through no course of their own, they are bonded to the land and they were bonded to the land while Jews were also bonded to the land.

I ask you again JStone. Who is the creator of nations?

Your argument is specious. It fails to hold any logic and is only the rhetoric of war. I refuse to create that rhetoric. I tried when I first came here. It's not me.

Sadly, it's you.

Maybe, the Palestinians are in the Zoroastrian Avesta, shmekle. Nope, not there, either :lol:
 
^ Back to the diatribe....

For ever page there is another page.

For what G-d gives with one hand he takes with the other...

Who creates nations JStone? Who calls for that duty JStone?

You speak of the bible. Tell me. Who?
 
^ So what?

Your point? So what if they are not in the bible. They are on the ground. They have babies born in multi-generational succession.

Through no course of their own, they are bonded to the land and they were bonded to the land while Jews were also bonded to the land.

I ask you again JStone. Who is the creator of nations?

Your argument is specious. It fails to hold any logic and is only the rhetoric of war. I refuse to create that rhetoric. I tried when I first came here. It's not me.

Sadly, it's you.

Shmekle, the Palestinians are not a nation and never have been.
Amir Taheri: Palestine Is Not A Nation http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=26840

A recent creation, the modern state is the political expression of a nation’s existence. One must first have a nation and then look for a state to express its existence.

Is Palestine a nation, in the modern sense of the term as described by Herder at the end of the 18th century?

You might be surprised, even angered, by this question. However, none of the dozens of political parties that have claimed to represent the Palestinians in the past seven decades ever described itself as national.

Words such as “nation” and “national” do not feature in the designation of such movements as Al Fatah and Hamas. Instead, they, and many other smaller ones, use adjectives such as “Islamic” or “people’s”. The subtext is that the Palestinians are, at most, “a people” but not a nation. They are regarded as part either of a larger, and mythical, Arab “nation” or an even more problematic Islamic Ummah.

Wedded to leftist or Islamist ideologies, Palestinian political formations systematically rejected the concept of the nation, the backbone of modern statehood.

The contrast with modern national liberation movements throughout the world is telling. For all of them the word “nation” is the key to their identity. Thus, we have the African National Congress in South Africa, and the National Liberation Front (FLN) in Algeria. Even Communist-dominated Vietcong described itself as a National Liberation Front.

Islamist or leftist, Palestinian political movements treat Palestine as a “cause” rather than a political project.

But what is that “cause”?

This was clearly put by Hamas leader Khalid Mishal in a speech in Tehran on 3 October. “Our aim,” he said, “is liberating all of Palestine from the River to the Sea.” In other words, the cause is not to give Palestinians a state but to destroy Israel.

Ramadan Abdallah Shallah, leader of the Islamic Jihad for Palestine was even more explicit. “When we come to power we shall not allow the Zionist regime to live a single moment,” he said in Tehran.

According to the daily Kayhan of 4 October, both men paid tribute to “Supreme Guide” Ali Khamenei as the man who should have the final word on Palestine.

Mishal said: “The esteemed Commander of the Islamic Revolution, Imam Khamenei, is our Guide and Leader. His wishes will be the cause of the Palestinians. Our sovereign and master is Khamenei.”

This, of course, is not the first time that Palestinian leaders have auctioned “the cause”. There was a time when Abdel Nasser was bootlicked as “guide and master”. In 1991, Yasser Arafat sold “the cause” to Saddam Hussein. A few years later in Oslo, he re-sold it to Shimon Peres.

In his speech, Khamenei promised that, once Israel is destroyed, he would organize a referendum in which Palestinians from all over the world and some citizens of Israel would decide what to do with “liberated Palestine”. Mischievous tongues in Tehran say that one option could be to attach “liberated Palestine” to Khamenei’s “imamate” empire. This is not fanciful. After all, Nasser, too, had hoped to annex “liberated Palestine” for his Arab Republic. Saddam Hussein had dreams of turning Palestine into Iraq’s “counter on the Mediterranean”, a scheme that would have also required the destruction of Jordan as an independent country. Hafez al-Assad fancied Palestine as part of “Greater Syria”.

Mishal and Shallah’s flattery towards Khamenei implies that there is no Palestinian “nation”. A sovereign nation would not demand that the leader of a foreign country decide its future.

The quest for a Palestinian state starts with the Palestinians themselves. They must decide whether they are a modern nation or a fragment of larger entities beyond their control.

...[A]s a member of the United Nations, a state cannot adopt the destruction of another UN member as its “cause.”

Palestine must choose what it wants to be a “cause” or a state.

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Who creates nations JStone? Who calls for that duty JStone?

You speak of the bible. Tell me. Who?
 
Who creates nations JStone? Who calls for that duty JStone?

You speak of the bible. Tell me. Who?

Shmekle, pay attention: Palestine is not a nation and never has been.

Amir Taheri: Palestine Is Not A Nation http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=26840

A recent creation, the modern state is the political expression of a nation’s existence. One must first have a nation and then look for a state to express its existence.

Is Palestine a nation, in the modern sense of the term as described by Herder at the end of the 18th century?

You might be surprised, even angered, by this question. However, none of the dozens of political parties that have claimed to represent the Palestinians in the past seven decades ever described itself as national.

Words such as “nation” and “national” do not feature in the designation of such movements as Al Fatah and Hamas. Instead, they, and many other smaller ones, use adjectives such as “Islamic” or “people’s”. The subtext is that the Palestinians are, at most, “a people” but not a nation. They are regarded as part either of a larger, and mythical, Arab “nation” or an even more problematic Islamic Ummah.

Wedded to leftist or Islamist ideologies, Palestinian political formations systematically rejected the concept of the nation, the backbone of modern statehood.

The contrast with modern national liberation movements throughout the world is telling. For all of them the word “nation” is the key to their identity. Thus, we have the African National Congress in South Africa, and the National Liberation Front (FLN) in Algeria. Even Communist-dominated Vietcong described itself as a National Liberation Front.

Islamist or leftist, Palestinian political movements treat Palestine as a “cause” rather than a political project.

But what is that “cause”?

This was clearly put by Hamas leader Khalid Mishal in a speech in Tehran on 3 October. “Our aim,” he said, “is liberating all of Palestine from the River to the Sea.” In other words, the cause is not to give Palestinians a state but to destroy Israel.

Ramadan Abdallah Shallah, leader of the Islamic Jihad for Palestine was even more explicit. “When we come to power we shall not allow the Zionist regime to live a single moment,” he said in Tehran.

According to the daily Kayhan of 4 October, both men paid tribute to “Supreme Guide” Ali Khamenei as the man who should have the final word on Palestine.

Mishal said: “The esteemed Commander of the Islamic Revolution, Imam Khamenei, is our Guide and Leader. His wishes will be the cause of the Palestinians. Our sovereign and master is Khamenei.”

This, of course, is not the first time that Palestinian leaders have auctioned “the cause”. There was a time when Abdel Nasser was bootlicked as “guide and master”. In 1991, Yasser Arafat sold “the cause” to Saddam Hussein. A few years later in Oslo, he re-sold it to Shimon Peres.

In his speech, Khamenei promised that, once Israel is destroyed, he would organize a referendum in which Palestinians from all over the world and some citizens of Israel would decide what to do with “liberated Palestine”. Mischievous tongues in Tehran say that one option could be to attach “liberated Palestine” to Khamenei’s “imamate” empire. This is not fanciful. After all, Nasser, too, had hoped to annex “liberated Palestine” for his Arab Republic. Saddam Hussein had dreams of turning Palestine into Iraq’s “counter on the Mediterranean”, a scheme that would have also required the destruction of Jordan as an independent country. Hafez al-Assad fancied Palestine as part of “Greater Syria”.

Mishal and Shallah’s flattery towards Khamenei implies that there is no Palestinian “nation”. A sovereign nation would not demand that the leader of a foreign country decide its future.

The quest for a Palestinian state starts with the Palestinians themselves. They must decide whether they are a modern nation or a fragment of larger entities beyond their control.

...[A]s a member of the United Nations, a state cannot adopt the destruction of another UN member as its “cause.”

Palestine must choose what it wants to be a “cause” or a state.
 
G-d is the creator of Nations. If a Palestine is created, then it is with the will of G-d. If it isn't then it is not with the will of G-d.

So, let's let the future dictate this one. Not the past....
 
G-d is the creator of Nations. If a Palestine is created, then it is with the will of G-d. If it isn't then it is not with the will of G-d.

So, let's let the future dictate this one. Not the past....

Shmekle, where did allah create the Palestinian nation in the Quran?
 
Hate to say it Stoney but even when you are given facts on this subject by others and myself,you merely close your ears and your brain shuts down,the trouble with you is that you are more Jewish than the Jews themselves apart from those mongrel illegal settlers normally Jewish/Americans or is that American/Jews.

Stoney I know you are addicted to your contraditory sources of information but when more worldly and informative folk explain reality to you,YOU should heed their advice......myopia is a medical condition of which I think you suffer.

I would be interested to know if you are Christian,Jew or closet Muslim because your flawed intensity on this subject is much to be admired on one hand but is delusional on the other.

I have tried to understand you as I have said before but your contineum on this flawed subject makes me worry about your mental state because its so excessive,to the point that you start to be abusive to others.

Best Regards theliq:cool: Ever living,ever faithful for the truth,ever sure.Stoney if you had even a simple grasp of history and the different peoples in the middle east,past and present you would expand your mind...which would be refreshing for us all...its not all Jewish,Jewish,Jewish.......Tinman is an excellent source,for you to start,methinks.
Well, okay.... continue to state such... get loud and more bold if you need to. I hope you come to find security within your own thoughts because, as is mine, they are necessarily flawed.

Facts are inconvenient, yes?
 
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Hate to say it Stoney but even when you are given facts on this subject by others and myself,you merely close your ears and your brain shuts down,the trouble with you is that you are more Jewish than the Jews themselves apart from those mongrel illegal settlers normally Jewish/Americans or is that American/Jews.

Stoney I know you are addicted to your contraditory sources of information but when more worldly and informative folk explain reality to you,YOU should heed their advice......myopia is a medical condition of which I think you suffer.

I would be interested to know if you are Christian,Jew or closet Muslim because your flawed intensity on this subject is much to be admired on one hand but is delusional on the other.

I have tried to understand you as I have said before but your contineum on this flawed subject makes me worry about your mental state because its so excessive,to the point that you start to be abusive to others.

Best Regards theliq:cool: Ever living,ever faithful for the truth,ever sure.Stoney if you had even a simple grasp of history and the different peoples in the middle east,past and present you would expand your mind...which would be refreshing for us all...its not all Jewish,Jewish,Jewish.......Tinman is an excellent source,for you to start,methinks.
Well, okay.... continue to state such... get loud and more bold if you need to. I hope you come to find security within your own thoughts because, as is mine, they are necessarily flawed.

Facts are inconvenient, yes?

References to Palestinians in the Hebrew Bible: Zero

References to Palestinians in the Christian Bible: Zero

References to Palestinians in the Quran: Zero

References to Palestinians in the Zoroastrian Avesta: Zero

Where, oh where, are these "ancient" Palestinians? :lol:
 
Stoney even YOU should distance yourself from the ridiculous statement from DOPEY :cuckoo: ROPEY regarding GOD is the creator of all nations.theliq (eg GOD CREATED THE NAZIS..such bollocks,you as a defender of Jews should find this a disgrace..I DO..just saying)
G-d is the creator of Nations. If a Palestine is created, then it is with the will of G-d. If it isn't then it is not with the will of G-d.

So, let's let the future dictate this one. Not the past....

Shmekle, where did allah create the Palestinian nation in the Quran?
 
Hate to say it Stoney but even when you are given facts on this subject by others and myself,you merely close your ears and your brain shuts down,the trouble with you is that you are more Jewish than the Jews themselves apart from those mongrel illegal settlers normally Jewish/Americans or is that American/Jews.

Stoney I know you are addicted to your contraditory sources of information but when more worldly and informative folk explain reality to you,YOU should heed their advice......myopia is a medical condition of which I think you suffer.

I would be interested to know if you are Christian,Jew or closet Muslim because your flawed intensity on this subject is much to be admired on one hand but is delusional on the other.

I have tried to understand you as I have said before but your contineum on this flawed subject makes me worry about your mental state because its so excessive,to the point that you start to be abusive to others.

Best Regards theliq:cool: Ever living,ever faithful for the truth,ever sure.If you had even a simple grasp of history and the different peoples in the middle east,past and present you would expand your mind......its not all Jewish,Jewish,Jewish.
Well, okay.... continue to state such... get loud and more bold if you need to. I hope you come to find security within your own thoughts because, as is mine, they are necessarily flawed.

Facts are inconvenient, yes?

Had you not posted that highlighted diatribe, it would have been a pretty valid response from you and I've read you often in the past.

imo. First, you don't know if JStone is Jewish.

He had no answer to my simple question. So I wonder.

Then if you wish to cast aspersions on the settlers then you may wish to search out where the forty or so thousand Shia who are now Palestinians came from and why they maintain such a strict tribe in isolation from their Palestinian brethren.

It's good to get a rounded view for discussion, but you are open to discussion. I'm against what is against discussion. That's more important than thousands of years ago.
 
Hate to say it Stoney but even when you are given facts on this subject by others and myself,you merely close your ears and your brain shuts down,the trouble with you is that you are more Jewish than the Jews themselves apart from those mongrel illegal settlers normally Jewish/Americans or is that American/Jews.

Stoney I know you are addicted to your contraditory sources of information but when more worldly and informative folk explain reality to you,YOU should heed their advice......myopia is a medical condition of which I think you suffer.

I would be interested to know if you are Christian,Jew or closet Muslim because your flawed intensity on this subject is much to be admired on one hand but is delusional on the other.

I have tried to understand you as I have said before but your contineum on this flawed subject makes me worry about your mental state because its so excessive,to the point that you start to be abusive to others.

Best Regards theliq:cool: Ever living,ever faithful for the truth,ever sure.If you had even a simple grasp of history and the different peoples in the middle east,past and present you would expand your mind......its not all Jewish,Jewish,Jewish.
Facts are inconvenient, yes?

Had you not posted that highlighted diatribe, it would have been a pretty valid response from you and I've read you often in the past.

imo. First, you don't know if JStone is Jewish.

He had no answer to my simple question. So I wonder.

Then if you wish to cast aspersions on the settlers then you may wish to search out where the forty or so thousand Shia who are now Palestinians came from and why they maintain such a strict tribe in isolation from their Palestinian brethren.

It's good to get a rounded view for discussion, but you are open to discussion. I'm against what is against discussion. That's more important than thousands of years ago.

Where, again, did allah make Palestinians a nation in the quran?
 
The question has no bearing. That's why it's so pitiful JStone. Your questions don't matter at all to the events happening in the present.

You are lost in a fantasy world of protecting something that is non-existent.

Edit:

That was then, this is now. Buy the t-shirt and take a bus home... (imho)
 
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The question has no bearing. That's why it's so pitiful JStone. Your questions don't matter at all to the events happening in the present.

You are lost in a fantasy world of protecting something that is non-existent.

Edit:

That was then, this is now. Buy the t-shirt and take a bus home... (imho)

So, allah never made Palestinians a nation in the quran, after all.

Nor, did God make Palestinians a nation in the Hebrew Bible nor Christian Bible.
 
That was then, this is now. Buy the t-shirt and take a bus home... (imho)

Now, Palestinians are not a nation, schmeckle.

Amir Taheri: Palestine Is Not A Nation http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=26840

A recent creation, the modern state is the political expression of a nation’s existence. One must first have a nation and then look for a state to express its existence.

Is Palestine a nation, in the modern sense of the term as described by Herder at the end of the 18th century?

You might be surprised, even angered, by this question. However, none of the dozens of political parties that have claimed to represent the Palestinians in the past seven decades ever described itself as national.

Words such as “nation” and “national” do not feature in the designation of such movements as Al Fatah and Hamas. Instead, they, and many other smaller ones, use adjectives such as “Islamic” or “people’s”. The subtext is that the Palestinians are, at most, “a people” but not a nation. They are regarded as part either of a larger, and mythical, Arab “nation” or an even more problematic Islamic Ummah.

Wedded to leftist or Islamist ideologies, Palestinian political formations systematically rejected the concept of the nation, the backbone of modern statehood.

The contrast with modern national liberation movements throughout the world is telling. For all of them the word “nation” is the key to their identity. Thus, we have the African National Congress in South Africa, and the National Liberation Front (FLN) in Algeria. Even Communist-dominated Vietcong described itself as a National Liberation Front.

Islamist or leftist, Palestinian political movements treat Palestine as a “cause” rather than a political project.

But what is that “cause”?

This was clearly put by Hamas leader Khalid Mishal in a speech in Tehran on 3 October. “Our aim,” he said, “is liberating all of Palestine from the River to the Sea.” In other words, the cause is not to give Palestinians a state but to destroy Israel.

Ramadan Abdallah Shallah, leader of the Islamic Jihad for Palestine was even more explicit. “When we come to power we shall not allow the Zionist regime to live a single moment,” he said in Tehran.

According to the daily Kayhan of 4 October, both men paid tribute to “Supreme Guide” Ali Khamenei as the man who should have the final word on Palestine.

Mishal said: “The esteemed Commander of the Islamic Revolution, Imam Khamenei, is our Guide and Leader. His wishes will be the cause of the Palestinians. Our sovereign and master is Khamenei.”

This, of course, is not the first time that Palestinian leaders have auctioned “the cause”. There was a time when Abdel Nasser was bootlicked as “guide and master”. In 1991, Yasser Arafat sold “the cause” to Saddam Hussein. A few years later in Oslo, he re-sold it to Shimon Peres.

In his speech, Khamenei promised that, once Israel is destroyed, he would organize a referendum in which Palestinians from all over the world and some citizens of Israel would decide what to do with “liberated Palestine”. Mischievous tongues in Tehran say that one option could be to attach “liberated Palestine” to Khamenei’s “imamate” empire. This is not fanciful. After all, Nasser, too, had hoped to annex “liberated Palestine” for his Arab Republic. Saddam Hussein had dreams of turning Palestine into Iraq’s “counter on the Mediterranean”, a scheme that would have also required the destruction of Jordan as an independent country. Hafez al-Assad fancied Palestine as part of “Greater Syria”.

Mishal and Shallah’s flattery towards Khamenei implies that there is no Palestinian “nation”. A sovereign nation would not demand that the leader of a foreign country decide its future.

The quest for a Palestinian state starts with the Palestinians themselves. They must decide whether they are a modern nation or a fragment of larger entities beyond their control.

...[A]s a member of the United Nations, a state cannot adopt the destruction of another UN member as its “cause.”

Palestine must choose what it wants to be a “cause” or a state.
 
G-d is the creator and destroyer of nations JStone. That is why G-d knows the end.

I have no fear because I have faith in the end.

You are full of fear imo.
 

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