Israel / Palestine Peace Plan

[Shogun]

YEA! it's probably impossible to find a pre-48 map of that area called PALESTINE...

http://pix.halfwit.com/e/n/i/palestine.jpg

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/a4...310db0a90525655600795225/$FILE/palestine1.jpg

http://www.countryseek.com/maps/palestine-map.gif

Professor Philip Hitti, eminent Arab historian, who represented the Institute of Arab American Affairs before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1945...

The Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us, because by smearing the walls of the rooms with maps of Palestine they are associating it in the mind of the average American--and I may say perhaps the Englishman, too--with the Jews. Sir, there is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.

D'oh.

lets see you cite that last quote without linking to the jewish virtual library or some other source saturated with hebrew bias.

 

[Marc39]

http://pix.halfwit.com/e/n/i/palestine.jpg

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/a4...310db0a90525655600795225/$FILE/palestine1.jpg

http://www.countryseek.com/maps/palestine-map.gif

Professor Philip Hitti, eminent Arab historian, who represented the Institute of Arab American Affairs before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1945...

The Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us, because by smearing the walls of the rooms with maps of Palestine they are associating it in the mind of the average American--and I may say perhaps the Englishman, too--with the Jews. Sir, there is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.

D'oh.

lets see you cite that last quote without linking to the jewish virtual library or some other source saturated with hebrew bias.

I'm not aware of Philip Hitti being saturated with "Hebrew bias", you moron. Allah Akbar. LOL

 

[Shogun]

Professor Philip Hitti, eminent Arab historian, who represented the Institute of Arab American Affairs before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1945...


D'oh.

lets see you cite that last quote without linking to the jewish virtual library or some other source saturated with hebrew bias.

I'm not aware of Philip Hitti being saturated with "Hebrew bias", you moron. Allah Akbar. LOL

I'm sure there are a great many things that you are not aware of, ya ironically hateful jew. Now, did you want to post a source for that quote so i can laugh at you some more or would you rather have the mossad call in an air strike on my neighborhood?

 

[Marc39]

lets see you cite that last quote without linking to the jewish virtual library or some other source saturated with hebrew bias.

I'm not aware of Philip Hitti being saturated with "Hebrew bias", you moron. Allah Akbar. LOL

I'm sure there are a great many things that you are not aware of, ya ironically hateful jew. Now, did you want to post a source for that quote so i can laugh at you some more or would you rather have the mossad call in an air strike on my neighborhood?

Why don't you refute Hitti? Let's see how great Allah really is? LOL

 

[al Haq]

Professor Philip Hitti, eminent Arab historian, who represented the Institute of Arab American Affairs before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1945...

The Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us, because by smearing the walls of the rooms with maps of Palestine they are associating it in the mind of the average American--and I may say perhaps the Englishman, too--with the Jews. Sir, there is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not.

Um....

D'oh.

I'll say.

 

[Marc39]

I'll say.

I read the book. Palestine was part of Greater Syria.

 

[al Haq]

I'll say.

I read the book. Palestine was part of Greater Syria.

You didn't read the book; you didn't even know of its existence before I posted a pic of it.

It should be a lesson to you: do a little more research yourself before posting bogus crap off dubious websites that is easily shown to be false. But I hope you keep doing it, because it is my pleasure to expose this sort of thing.

To recap: You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history" - yet here we have his book about that very subject, by name: the history of Syria including Palestine.

Your invented quote is bogus, just like your invented Congressional resolution - the only mention of it tracks right back to Zionist disinfo factories.

 

[GHook93]

Interesting. What would be the solution for a town like Najd?

First solution would be ignoring and excluding retarded rednecks, like you, from the discussion!

 

[Marc39]

I'll say.

I read the book. Palestine was part of Greater Syria.

You didn't read the book; you didn't even know of its existence before I posted a pic of it.

It should be a lesson to you: do a little more research yourself before posting bogus crap off dubious websites that is easily shown to be false. But I hope you keep doing it, because it is my pleasure to expose this sort of thing.

To recap: You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history" - yet here we have his book about that very subject, by name: the history of Syria including Palestine.

Your invented quote is bogus, just like your invented Congressional resolution - the only mention of it tracks right back to Zionist disinfo factories.

I have read Hitti and Hourari, dummy. Palestine was viewed as part of Greater Syria by Arabs for most of history.

You prove that Allah is a loser.

 

[GHook93]

Interesting idea. Probably would be tough to implement, but so has everything else. I have thought about a shared capital, but in the end I think that would be a failure. Since the inevitable questions and problems of:
(1) Jurisdiction
(2) Biased and preceived bias of each other's government in dealing with their wrong-doers.
(3) How would a joint police force work.
(4) Who collects tax dollars
(5) Who admires services paid for by those tax dollars.
(6) When a Palestinian and an Israeli are in a disbute, who settles the dispute? The Israeli would be upset if it was the Palestinians and the Palestinians would be upset if it was an Israeli.
(7) What happens with criminal prosecution
(8) Who investigates political corruptness

The list goes on and on!

 

[al Haq]

I read the book. Palestine was part of Greater Syria.

You didn't read the book; you didn't even know of its existence before I posted a pic of it.

It should be a lesson to you: do a little more research yourself before posting bogus crap off dubious websites that is easily shown to be false. But I hope you keep doing it, because it is my pleasure to expose this sort of thing.

To recap: You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history" - yet here we have his book about that very subject, by name: the history of Syria including Palestine.

Your invented quote is bogus, just like your invented Congressional resolution - the only mention of it tracks right back to Zionist disinfo factories.

I have read Hitti and Hourari, dummy. Palestine was viewed as part of Greater Syria by Arabs for most of history.

You prove that Allah is a loser.

Palestine was certainly administered as part of Greater Syria during the Ottoman Empire.

But that's not what I posted about, and you know it.

You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history."

You are now attempting to deflect and dissemble from the point: your supposed quote is bogus. Hitti didn't say that, and he even titled his book as the history of Syria including Lebanon and Palestine.

 

[Coyote]

Also, in terms of history, it just seems absurd to me in a way. Even if the jews really were the bad guys (which they weren't and aren't) every displaced population in history has gone elsewhere.... except the Pals who are used by the arabs to be the thorn in their people's sides and distract from their own internal problems.

I don't think that is accurate - not every displaced population in history has gone elsewhere. Many are returned to their home countries (what was considered the preferable solution by the UN), many remain in refugee camps in foreign countries that will not grant them citizenship, a relatively small number are taken in by foreign countries. For the Palestinians - there is land for them, it's simply occupied by a foreign power. And, the Palestinians don't just distract the Arab countries from their own internal problems - they distract Israel from it's internal political problems.

 

[Marc39]

You didn't read the book; you didn't even know of its existence before I posted a pic of it.

It should be a lesson to you: do a little more research yourself before posting bogus crap off dubious websites that is easily shown to be false. But I hope you keep doing it, because it is my pleasure to expose this sort of thing.

To recap: You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history" - yet here we have his book about that very subject, by name: the history of Syria including Palestine.

Your invented quote is bogus, just like your invented Congressional resolution - the only mention of it tracks right back to Zionist disinfo factories.

I have read Hitti and Hourari, dummy. Palestine was viewed as part of Greater Syria by Arabs for most of history.

You prove that Allah is a loser.

Palestine was certainly administered as part of Greater Syria during the Ottoman Empire.

But that's not what I posted about, and you know it.

You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history."

You are now attempting to deflect and dissemble from the point: your supposed quote is bogus. Hitti didn't say that, and he even titled his book as the history of Syria including Lebanon and Palestine.

I'm not deflecting anything, dummy. You aredeflecting. Hitti has stated there has never been a Palestine and he did so in 1946, not during the Ottoman Empire.

Eminent historian Bernard Lewis backs up Hitti...

For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole. Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

Suck it up, Muhammadan.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I have read Hitti and Hourari, dummy. Palestine was viewed as part of Greater Syria by Arabs for most of history.

You prove that Allah is a loser.

Palestine was certainly administered as part of Greater Syria during the Ottoman Empire.

But that's not what I posted about, and you know it.

You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history."

You are now attempting to deflect and dissemble from the point: your supposed quote is bogus. Hitti didn't say that, and he even titled his book as the history of Syria including Lebanon and Palestine.

I'm not deflecting anything, dummy. You aredeflecting. Hitti has stated there has never been a Palestine and he did so in 1946, not during the Ottoman Empire.

Eminent historian Bernard Lewis backs up Hitti...

For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole. Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

Suck it up, Muhammadan.

They claim that the "British created the Palestinian identity ." This is easily belied by such evidence as the existence of a modem Arabic-language newspaper named Filastin, which addressed its readers as Palestinians in 1911, six years before the Balfour Declaration and well before the commencement of the British Mandate.

Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem

 

[al Haq]

I have read Hitti and Hourari, dummy. Palestine was viewed as part of Greater Syria by Arabs for most of history.

You prove that Allah is a loser.

Palestine was certainly administered as part of Greater Syria during the Ottoman Empire.

But that's not what I posted about, and you know it.

You claimed that Hitti said "there is no such thing as Palestine in history."

You are now attempting to deflect and dissemble from the point: your supposed quote is bogus. Hitti didn't say that, and he even titled his book as the history of Syria including Lebanon and Palestine.

I'm not deflecting anything, dummy. You aredeflecting. Hitti has stated there has never been a Palestine and he did so in 1946, not during the Ottoman Empire.

Then why did he title his book "The History of Syria including Lebanon and Palestine" instead of "The History of Syria including Lebanon and the Place that Didn't Exist"?

Your argument makes no sense, yet you persist. You were naive enough to repeat a lie without checking, and you got caught.

Eminent historian Bernard Lewis backs up Hitti...

For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole. Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

Bernard Lewis is hardly an objective historian. He is the darling of of the Zionist narrative, and has devoted his entire career to attempting to discredit Arabs and Islam.

Suck it up, Muhammadan.

Please continue to exhibit the repugnant behavior that your ideology encourages, in case anyone does not yet realize that bigotry is the cornerstone of Zionism.

 

[Marc39]

Bernard Lewis is hardly an objective historian. He is the darling of of the Zionist narrative, and has devoted his entire career to attempting to discredit Arabs and Islam.

Suck it up, Muhammadan.

Please continue to exhibit the repugnant behavior that your ideology encourages, in case anyone does not yet realize that bigotry is the cornerstone of Zionism.

Trying to disparage Bernard Lewis, arguably, the most eminent Middle Eastern historian and Islamic scholar ever, is a losing tactic for you.

Are these people who have praised Bernard Lewis and his books, including Arabs, part of some Zionist conspiracy? I don't think so...

"Replete with the exceptional historical insight that one has come to expect from the world's foremost Islamic scholar." --Karen Elliott House, Wall Street Journal

"Lewis's scholarship is prodigious....He avoids dogmatic positions himself and sees dogma as something to be analyzed. It is this sense of nuance, of historical setting, of honesty to texts, that informs the essays in Islam and the West."--The New York Review of Books

"Demonstrate breadth and depth of scholarship and an ability to communicate with both specialists and nonspecialists."--Journal of Ecumenical Studies

"Brilliant...weaves a seamless web between past and present. In collection of remarkable learning and range Mr. Lewis takes us, as he alone among today's historians and interpreters of Islam can, from the early encoutners of Christendom and Islam to today's Islamic dilemmas. To read Mr. Lewis on Europe's obsession with the Ottoman Turks, the raging battle between secularism and fundamentalism in the Muslim world, or the difficulty of studying other peoples' histories is to be taken through a treacherous terrain by the coolest and most reassuring of guides. You are in the hands of the Islamic world's foremost living historian. Of that world's ordeal he writes with the greatest care and authority and no small measure of sympathy."--Fouad Ajami, writing in The Wall Street Journal

"Arguably the West's most distinguished scholar on the Middle East."--Newsweek

"A timely and provocative contribution to the current raging debate about the tensions between the West and the Islamic world.... One wishes leaders in the Islamic world would pay heed to some of Lewis' themes." --Stanley Reed, Business Week

"Lucidly argued and richly supported by telling quotations.... Lewis is a persuasive chronicler of Muslim resistance to change and modernity."--Robert Irwin, Washington Post Book World

"An accessible and excitingly knowledgeable antidote to today's natural sense of befuddlement." --Michael Pakenham, Baltimore Sun

"A compelling book. One of our most distinguished historians throws a floodlight on that cruel divide between the West and the societies of Islam. Learned and urgent at the same time." --Fouad Ajami, The Johns Hopkins University

"Lewis's academic credentials are impeccable... the collection of essays, articles, reviews, lectures and contributions to encyclopaedias gives a glimpse of his towering scholarship.' -- Michael Binyon THE TIMES

"Our greatest authority on the world of Islam has followed his recent series of best-selling books with this gathering of fifty-one essays from the past fifty-one years. And an enjoyable, as well as an enlightening, collection it turns out to be.' -- Hazhir Tiemourian

"As this collection of writings and speeches from the last 40 years demonstrates once again, Lewis is probably the world's most erudite scholar of the Middle East. The pieces cover virtually all aspects of the region--from medieval Turkish history to the roots of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and everything in between. Food for thought abounds.... Reflects the thinking of a profound mind."--Publishers Weekly

"The press of world events has transformed Bernard Lewis into the most public sort of intellectual, well into the emeritus phase of his scholarly career. His 2002 study, What Went Wrong?, shed much welcome, if controversial, light on the divergent courses of Islamic and Western civilization at a moment when the question could not be more urgent. Now in a new collection of essays, From Babel to Dragomans, Lewis teases out the implications of his earlier argument in a wide range of settings, from traditional Middle Eastern feasts and rituals to the anti-Western propaganda campaigns of al Qaeda."--Chris Lehmann, The Washington Post

"Inestimable...replete with the exceptional historical insight that one has come to expect from the world's foremost Islamic scholar."--The Wall Street Journal

"No scholar of Islam in the Western world has more thoroughly earned the respect of generalists and academics alike than Bernard Lewis."--Baltimore Sun

"A towering figure among experts on the culture and religion of the Muslim world" (Baltimore Sun)

 

[Coyote]

You obviously don't get it. There are always excuses. If the Palis get the west bank, then they want E.Jerusalem too. If they get EJ, then they want Jaffa. If they get Jaffa, then they want Tel Aviv.
You are dealing with people who have been told since infancy that all their problems come from the Jews. Get rid of the Jews and your problems are over. Their leadership must maintain this fiction to cover over their own kleptocracy and incompetence. So there is always another demand over the horizon. There is no negotiating with people like that.

Before Israel the indigenous Muslims, Christians, and Jews live in peace in Palestine. With Israel there has been nothing but death and destruction. Even today they all live together in peace in Palestine.

What is complicated here?

Straight up lie. And a misdirection to boot. The Grand pubah of Jerusalem was a NAZI and had every intention of killing Jews anyway he could.

The misdirection is in the fact that the JEWS tried everything they could and still do to avoid conflict. THEY BEGGED the Arabs to stay in Israel and be part of the new nation, the Arabs ordered them out declaring they would drive every JEW in that region into the sea.

That is not entirely true, and to use your words a "misdirection to boot".

According to Benny Morris, the Palestinians who fled in 1947 left mostly due to Israeli military attacks, fear of impending attacks; and deliberate expulsions. While there was no centralized policy - expulsions were ordered by the Israeli high command as needed.

Morris has written several books based on information from documents in government and university archives that contained a great deal of information from that period that had never been made public.

In his book: The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949 Morris documents atrocities by the Israelis, including cases of rape and torture. Out of 228 empty Palestinian villages, the 4inhabitants were expelled by the IDF from 41 and in another 90, they fled due to attacks on neighboring villages. Only in six could he confirm that they left under orders from Arab authorities. For the remaining 46, he could not find a reason for why they were abandoned.

Benny Morris himself is an interesting figure and is hardly a Palestinian sympathizer. He clearly points out culpability for the refugee problem in both Israel's actions and those of the Arabs and defies the white-washed version of Israel's history. He is a professor of Middle East history in Ben-Gurion University, and he considers himself a Zionist. After publishing his first book he was denounced as an anti-Semite and compared with Holocaust deniers, a well worn tactic against those that depart from the accepted history of Israel.

He writes that the contents of the new documents substantially increase both Israeli and Palestinian responsibility for the refugee problem, revealing more expulsions and atrocities on the Israeli side, and more orders from Arab officials to the Palestinians to leave their villages, or at least to send their women and children away

 

[al Haq]

Trying to disparage Bernard Lewis, arguably, the most eminent Middle Eastern historian and Islamic scholar ever, is a losing tactic for you.

Are these people who have praised Bernard Lewis and his books, including Arabs, part of some Zionist conspiracy? I don't think so...

"Replete with the exceptional historical insight that one has come to expect from the world's foremost Islamic scholar." --Karen Elliott House, Wall Street Journal

"Lewis's scholarship is prodigious....He avoids dogmatic positions himself and sees dogma as something to be analyzed. It is this sense of nuance, of historical setting, of honesty to texts, that informs the essays in Islam and the West."--The New York Review of Books

"Demonstrate breadth and depth of scholarship and an ability to communicate with both specialists and nonspecialists."--Journal of Ecumenical Studies

"Brilliant...weaves a seamless web between past and present. In collection of remarkable learning and range Mr. Lewis takes us, as he alone among today's historians and interpreters of Islam can, from the early encoutners of Christendom and Islam to today's Islamic dilemmas. To read Mr. Lewis on Europe's obsession with the Ottoman Turks, the raging battle between secularism and fundamentalism in the Muslim world, or the difficulty of studying other peoples' histories is to be taken through a treacherous terrain by the coolest and most reassuring of guides. You are in the hands of the Islamic world's foremost living historian. Of that world's ordeal he writes with the greatest care and authority and no small measure of sympathy."--Fouad Ajami, writing in The Wall Street Journal

"Arguably the West's most distinguished scholar on the Middle East."--Newsweek

"A timely and provocative contribution to the current raging debate about the tensions between the West and the Islamic world.... One wishes leaders in the Islamic world would pay heed to some of Lewis' themes." --Stanley Reed, Business Week

"Lucidly argued and richly supported by telling quotations.... Lewis is a persuasive chronicler of Muslim resistance to change and modernity."--Robert Irwin, Washington Post Book World

"An accessible and excitingly knowledgeable antidote to today's natural sense of befuddlement." --Michael Pakenham, Baltimore Sun

"A compelling book. One of our most distinguished historians throws a floodlight on that cruel divide between the West and the societies of Islam. Learned and urgent at the same time." --Fouad Ajami, The Johns Hopkins University

"Lewis's academic credentials are impeccable... the collection of essays, articles, reviews, lectures and contributions to encyclopaedias gives a glimpse of his towering scholarship.' -- Michael Binyon THE TIMES

"Our greatest authority on the world of Islam has followed his recent series of best-selling books with this gathering of fifty-one essays from the past fifty-one years. And an enjoyable, as well as an enlightening, collection it turns out to be.' -- Hazhir Tiemourian

"As this collection of writings and speeches from the last 40 years demonstrates once again, Lewis is probably the world's most erudite scholar of the Middle East. The pieces cover virtually all aspects of the region--from medieval Turkish history to the roots of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and everything in between. Food for thought abounds.... Reflects the thinking of a profound mind."--Publishers Weekly

"The press of world events has transformed Bernard Lewis into the most public sort of intellectual, well into the emeritus phase of his scholarly career. His 2002 study, What Went Wrong?, shed much welcome, if controversial, light on the divergent courses of Islamic and Western civilization at a moment when the question could not be more urgent. Now in a new collection of essays, From Babel to Dragomans, Lewis teases out the implications of his earlier argument in a wide range of settings, from traditional Middle Eastern feasts and rituals to the anti-Western propaganda campaigns of al Qaeda."--Chris Lehmann, The Washington Post

"Inestimable...replete with the exceptional historical insight that one has come to expect from the world's foremost Islamic scholar."--The Wall Street Journal

"No scholar of Islam in the Western world has more thoroughly earned the respect of generalists and academics alike than Bernard Lewis."--Baltimore Sun

"A towering figure among experts on the culture and religion of the Muslim world" (Baltimore Sun)

You don’t have to be part of a so-called “conspiracy” to mistake propaganda for scholarship, although plenty of the names on your list are well-known members of the Zio cheerleading squad.

Fouad Ajami is your example of "Arabs" praising Bernard Lewis? LOL.

First of all, although he was born in Lebanon, Fouad Ajami is of Iranian heritage, not Arab. (That other “Muslim-sounding” name on your list is an Iranian Kurd.)

Anyway -- at one time, Ajami was a supporter of Palestinian rights, but he switched over to become a shameless tool for the neocon warmongers, extolled by the likes of Daniel Pipes, Norman Podhoretz, and Paul Wolfowitz.

In fact, Ajami works for Pipes at Middle East Forum -- a neo-con think tank dedicated to promoting Israeli right wing ideology and Islamophobia, pushing for the U.S. to spend its blood and treasure attacking any Muslim country that might potentially rival Israel’s hegemony in the Middle East, and harassing American university professors who have the temerity to conduct Middle East Studies classes without a heavily pro-Israel bias.

And it’s no surprise that Ajami would be lauding Bernard Lewis - that’s his partner over at ASMEA (the Association for the Study of the Middle East and Africa, yet another neo-con think tank.)

 

[Marc39]

... Israel’s hegemony in the Middle East...

Dummy, most people in the Middle East fear Iran's hegemony. Israel is not even on the map.

Israel is just 8,000 square miles in size, dummy, about the size of Vermont, one of the smallest states in the United States. The Arab and Muslim shitholes in the Middle East encompass 9,000,000 square miles.

IRan is 640,000 square miles.

Who, again, is a hegemony, dummy?

 

[Dr Grump]

Dummy, Lebanese view themselves, for the most part as Arab.
.

However an Iranian is Persian, not an arab. It's akin to calling someone of Japanese heritage, French.....