Israel Orders Criminal Investigations Into Gaza War Incidents

[montelatici]

No it is the hatred the Israeli Jews have for the Palestinians. And it was the IDF that was being referred to.

 

[Kondor3]

No it is the hatred the Israeli Jews have for the Palestinians. And it was the IDF that was being referred to.

Love it, when one of these Jew-Haters outs him-or-herself, then starts squirming on the hook, trying to recast their words.

Your words were taken IN context, and quite clear, leaving no room at the time for ambiguity.

Child-killing is in the DNA of the Jews.

Twist and squirm and wiggle on the hook all you like... you stand condemned by your own words.

Too late now.

 

[toastman]

How many times have Palestinians investigated attacks against Israelis??
Anyone??



*crickets*

How many times? I don't know but what do a people do when they are invaded by people from another continent? Sit back and welcome them? Then politely leave and leave their homes and lands to the invading barbarians? WTF do you expect people to do under those conditions.

Stop deflecting and answer the question

 

[toastman]

No it is the hatred the Israeli Jews have for the Palestinians. And it was the IDF that was being referred to.

You know NOTHING about the IDF except what you read from your anti Israel sites.

 

[MJB12741]

Now here's a thing:

Is the PA stalling Gaza war crimes probe?

There has been no international investigation into war crimes in Gaza so far. Leaked document may hold clues as to why.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Is the PA stalling Gaza war crimes probe - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

I would say Abbas has sold out again, to delay sufficiently to let Israel get in first, and take (highly partizan) control of the top instances of war crimes.

Palestinian leadership once again seems to be utterly corrupt, utterly incompetent, or just the cat's paw for other powers.

Have you gone completely whacko? Abbas is Israel's greatest threat in that Israel would again be obligated to give in to Palestinian demands. LONG LIVE HAMAS!

 

[member]

How many times have Palestinians investigated attacks against Israelis??
Anyone??



*crickets*

How many times? I don't know but what do a people do when they are invaded by people from another continent? Sit back and welcome them? Then politely leave and leave their homes and lands to the invading barbarians? WTF do you expect people to do under those conditions.

"what do a people do.."

what terrorists usually do.....




terrorists run Gaza....no ? I'd like to hear you say, Hamass is NOT a terrorist organization -but 'something else." what are they to you ? i missed it.

 

[Indeependent]

My Anti-Jew Boredom threshold has been met.
If only more Jew Haters were literate and could contribute something more interesting.

 

[Kondor3]

...It's like this, man. To me anyway. Israel is such a corrupt and greedy state it can't get out of its own way, man...

I dunno about corrupt... I don't live there... I'm not a Jew... I have no dog in that fight.

Greedy? Perhaps. With respect to the borders and level of permanent security that it insists upon for itself. But that's about it, insofar as seems likely.

...Then we move to the indisputable fact that Israel kills and maims thousands and thousands of people systematically, calling them "collateral damage". Do you know how freaking ridiculous you sound man?...

You can call it freaking ridiculous as often and as loudly and as long as you like... "man".

But declaring it thus does not render it thus in the Real World.

If the Palestinians do not want civilian casualties then it needs to...

1. stop rocket barrages and terror campaigns against Israel

2. stop hiding war-assets amongst its civilian population centers, mosques, hospitals, schools, etc.

Do (2) and you reduce the number of civilian casualties by 80-90%.

Do (1) and you reduce the number of civilian casualties by damned-near 100%.

Fail to do that and you will continue to incur civilian casualties as collateral damage to legitimate military targeting operations.

Your dislike for such facts, and your attempting to label it as something else, and other than what it truly is, changes nothing.

Nothing.

...Israel has gone 1,000 % Rogue by any damn definition and at least half of the world knows it too...

Half the world is either busy kissing Arab and Muslim ass to keep the oil flowing, or has a long history of Jew-hating and Jew-oppression themselves, or is simply too lemming-like or ignorant to know any better.

...Deny your asses off if it makes you feel better...

I don't think it makes anyone feel any better.

It just keeps honest opinion and actual truth alive and well in the sick world of Jew Haters.

...Karma is functional even in your perverted world...

Yes, yes, yes... very nice, I'm sure.

...and you're basically surrounded by people you enjoy killing...

Not me. I'm an Irish-German -American living in the American Midwest who is surrounded by his fellow American citizens, most of whom don't want to kill anyone.

But I understand that the Jews of Israel are, indeed, surrounded by people who want to kill them.

That is why the United States will continue to provide US taxpayer money (yours included) to support the besieged Jews of Israel, so that they may continue the good fight against their racist and hateful neighbors.

...Hello?? DNA defect?? I'm all ears.

If you buy into Monty's Nazi spiel about the Jews being child killers because the trait is embedded in Israeli-Jewish DNA, then, you're not all ears... you're all ass.

Hopefully, I've misinterpreted your intentions here, and will owe you an apology, but, somehow, I doubt it.

 

[Forester]

...It's like this, man. To me anyway. Israel is such a corrupt and greedy state it can't get out of its own way, man...

I dunno about corrupt... I don't live there... I'm not a Jew... I have no dog in that fight.
Greedy? Perhaps. With respect to the borders and level of permanent security that it insists upon for itself. But that's about it, insofar as seems likely.

...Then we move to the indisputable fact that Israel kills and maims thousands and thousands of people systematically, calling them "collateral damage". Do you know how freaking ridiculous you sound man?...

You can call it freaking ridiculous as often and as loudly and as long as you like... "man".

But declaring it thus does not render it thus in the Real World.

If the Palestinians do not want civilian casualties then it needs to...

1. stop rocket barrages and terror campaigns against Israel

2. stop hiding war-assets amongst its civilian population centers, mosques, hospitals, schools, etc.

Do (2) and you reduce the number of civilian casualties by 80-90%.

Do (1) and you reduce the number of civilian casualties by damned-near 100%.

Fail to do that and you will continue to incur civilian casualties as collateral damage to legitimate military targeting operations.

Your dislike for such facts, and your attempting to label it as something else, and other than what it truly is, changes nothing.

Nothing.

...Israel has gone 1,000 % Rogue by any damn definition and at least half of the world knows it too...

Half the world is either busy kissing Arab and Muslim ass to keep the oil flowing, or has a long history of Jew-hating and Jew-oppression themselves, or is simply too lemming-like or ignorant to know any better.

...Deny your asses off if it makes you feel better...

I don't think it makes anyone feel any better.

It just keeps honest opinion and actual truth alive and well in the sick world of Jew Haters.

...Karma is functional even in your perverted world...

Yes, yes, yes... very nice, I'm sure.

...and you're basically surrounded by people you enjoy killing...

Not me. I'm an Irish-German -American living in the American Midwest who is surrounded by his fellow American citizens, most of whom don't want to kill anyone.

But I understand that the Jews of Israel are, indeed, surrounded by people who want to kill them.

That is why the United States will continue to provide US taxpayer money (yours included) to support the besieged Jews of Israel, so that they may continue the good fight against their racist and hateful neighbors.

...Hello?? DNA defect?? I'm all ears.

If you buy into Monty's Nazi spiel about the Jews being child killers because the trait is embedded in Israeli-Jewish DNA, then, you're not all ears... you're all ass.

Hopefully, I've misinterpreted your intentions here, and will owe you an apology, but, somehow, I doubt it.

Sorry if I offended you or anyone else...I'm trying to figure this out in some sort of way and it's coming up "does not compute" but going heavy on the negativity probably didn't help. Sorry about that.
People of Jewish background in the U.S. don't have any kind of homicidal tendencies or anything like that. Neither do the people of Arab backgrounds in the U.S. But there sure is a lot of killing over there in the Middle East. Wow.

 

[Kondor3]

...Sorry if I offended you or anyone else...I'm trying to figure this out in some sort of way and it's coming up "does not compute" but going heavy on the negativity probably didn't help. Sorry about that. People of Jewish background in the U.S. don't have any kind of homicidal tendencies or anything like that. Neither do the people of Arab backgrounds in the U.S. But there sure is a lot of killing over there in the Middle East. Wow.

Nothing to apologize for, if you do not take sides with someone who claims that child-killing is embedded in the genetic makeup of another race. Other than that, you're as entitled to your opinion, pro or con, as the next person, and I would not attempt to deny you that right under any circumstances. I'm simply glad that you took the time to clarify your earlier remarks and I, for one, feel much better for that. Unfortunately, the timer has expired on my ability to Delete the post, but, so long as you're not backing a racist position, it's all good, anyway. Much obliged, and well-met. Thanks.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel's military attorney general has ordered criminal investigations into five incidents in the recent Gaza war.

They include the killing of four Palestinian children on a beach and the shelling of a United Nations school.

At least 13 people were killed in the school in Beit Hanoun - which was being used as a shelter for displaced people - and dozens were injured.

At the time, the Israeli military said an "errant mortar" hit the school but did not cause the deaths.

The announcement comes as Israel faces other international investigations related to the fighting with Palestinian militants that ended two weeks ago.

The latest conflict left over 2,100 Palestinians dead, most of them civilians according to UN and Palestinian officials.

BBC News - Israel orders criminal investigations into Gaza war incidents

Will they find themselves Not guilty, again?

Will hamas hold a similar investigation into why rocket launch pads were placed in civilian ares, schools and hospitals. Or will they just ignore their own war crimes and crimes against humanity.

 

[Phoenall]

When was the last time the Arab Palestinian had an internal investigation into its actions?

Israelis 'followed law in Gaza'

Israel says its troops acted professionally in Gaza

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law during its operations in Gaza three months ago.

A small number of errors did take place, it admits, such as the deaths of 21 people in a wrongly targeted house, but it claims these were "unavoidable".

The military said Gaza militants had used civilian sites for cover.

Rights group have raised concerns about war crimes and say a wider, external investigation is needed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

And heres one we baked earlier, rinse and repeat

"The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law.."

hahahahahahahahahahaha! Now what would the Israeli military say about themselves? Who in the devil do you think you are communicating with. Not all Americans are brainwashed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

So when the ICC and ICJ say the same thing will you laugh even louder in sorrow at the truth being told.

 

[Phoenall]

When was the last time the Arab Palestinian had an internal investigation into its actions?

Israelis 'followed law in Gaza'

Israel says its troops acted professionally in Gaza

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law during its operations in Gaza three months ago.

A small number of errors did take place, it admits, such as the deaths of 21 people in a wrongly targeted house, but it claims these were "unavoidable".

The military said Gaza militants had used civilian sites for cover.

Rights group have raised concerns about war crimes and say a wider, external investigation is needed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

And heres one we baked earlier, rinse and repeat

"The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law.."

hahahahahahahahahahaha! Now what would the Israeli military say about themselves? Who in the devil do you think you are communicating with. Not all Americans are brainwashed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

That's precisely the point, we don't do this for the Americans or anyone else, now go back to your cave in Pakistan or wherever you from.

Listen you little Israeli punk. I am a U.S. Army combat veteran with a tour in Vietnam under my belt with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade, and I live in Maryland. Go back to your cave in the land your people have stolen.

You are a female convert to ISLAMONAZISM aren't you, so why do you LIE so much.

 

[Phoenall]

When was the last time the Arab Palestinian had an internal investigation into its actions?

Israelis 'followed law in Gaza'

Israel says its troops acted professionally in Gaza

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law during its operations in Gaza three months ago.

A small number of errors did take place, it admits, such as the deaths of 21 people in a wrongly targeted house, but it claims these were "unavoidable".

The military said Gaza militants had used civilian sites for cover.

Rights group have raised concerns about war crimes and say a wider, external investigation is needed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

And heres one we baked earlier, rinse and repeat

"The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law.."

hahahahahahahahahahaha! Now what would the Israeli military say about themselves? Who in the devil do you think you are communicating with. Not all Americans are brainwashed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

That's precisely the point, we don't do this for the Americans or anyone else, now go back to your cave in Pakistan or wherever you from.

Listen you little Israeli punk. I am a U.S. Army combat veteran with a tour in Vietnam under my belt with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade, and I live in Maryland. Go back to your cave in the land your people have stolen.

You are nothing but a net thug, primitive and arrogant hater, and you have no idea who I am except what your ego tells you to so here's a hint - I'm used to trash like you are used to bacon, so save the bragging and filth to yourself deep inside your cave to where it belongs.

So, telling others to return to their cave in Pakistan isn't net thuggery? You are the thug. I am responding in kind. Criticizing the murder of hundreds of children and thousands of civilians isn't "arrogant hating" whether the target is the IDF or ISIS. Both are killers of innocent people.

Rubbish.

You are a mentally unbalanced, Jew-hating racist, who claims that Israeli Jews kill children because it's in their DNA.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Crawl back under your rock, Hater.

Oh, and, a message from the Militant Muslims: "Please, for Allah's sake, stay off our side".

If it's not in your DNA, why do you people kill so many non-Jew children? Are you psychopaths?

proportionally to the population count it is muslims that kill more children than the Jews. Just look at Iraq, Syria, Darfur, Sudan, Nigeria, Kenya to name but a few recent episodes.

 

[montelatici]

When was the last time the Arab Palestinian had an internal investigation into its actions?

Israelis 'followed law in Gaza'

Israel says its troops acted professionally in Gaza

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law during its operations in Gaza three months ago.

A small number of errors did take place, it admits, such as the deaths of 21 people in a wrongly targeted house, but it claims these were "unavoidable".

The military said Gaza militants had used civilian sites for cover.

Rights group have raised concerns about war crimes and say a wider, external investigation is needed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

And heres one we baked earlier, rinse and repeat

"The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law.."

hahahahahahahahahahaha! Now what would the Israeli military say about themselves? Who in the devil do you think you are communicating with. Not all Americans are brainwashed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

That's precisely the point, we don't do this for the Americans or anyone else, now go back to your cave in Pakistan or wherever you from.

Listen you little Israeli punk. I am a U.S. Army combat veteran with a tour in Vietnam under my belt with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade, and I live in Maryland. Go back to your cave in the land your people have stolen.

You are nothing but a net thug, primitive and arrogant hater, and you have no idea who I am except what your ego tells you to so here's a hint - I'm used to trash like you are used to bacon, so save the bragging and filth to yourself deep inside your cave to where it belongs.

So, telling others to return to their cave in Pakistan isn't net thuggery? You are the thug. I am responding in kind. Criticizing the murder of hundreds of children and thousands of civilians isn't "arrogant hating" whether the target is the IDF or ISIS. Both are killers of innocent people.

Rubbish.

You are a mentally unbalanced, Jew-hating racist, who claims that Israeli Jews kill children because it's in their DNA.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Crawl back under your rock, Hater.

Oh, and, a message from the Militant Muslims: "Please, for Allah's sake, stay off our side".

If it's not in your DNA, why do you people kill so many non-Jew children? Are you psychopaths?

Too late to try talking your way out of your new label as Jew-Hater and Racist now, lowlife. The damage is done. And the beauty of that is that you did it to yourself.

Talk to the hand.

All those that are critical of Israel are deemed Jew haters. It is you that enjoy and encourage the murder of non-Jewish children that is the racist and psychopath.

Nope.

You said that Israeli Jews killed children because it was in their DNA.

That's not criticism of Israel.

That's Jew-Hatred, plain and simple, and in all its naked wickedness and evil intent.

You finally 'outed' yourself.

Too late to try talking your way out of that now.

The evidence speaks for itself.

You stand condemned by your own words.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer resurrected Nazi.

Enjoy your new reputation... you've certainly earned it.

Yes, Israeli Jews kill children. No one can deny it. They killed around 500 of them in just a few weeks.

 

[docmauser1]

Yes, Israeli Jews kill children. No one can deny it. They killed around 500 of them in just a few weeks.

Hamas are such children, indeed.

 

[docmauser1]

BBC News - Israel orders criminal investigations into Gaza war incidents Will they find themselves Not guilty, again?

It's tough to be good duys, indeed.

 

[toastman]

When was the last time the Arab Palestinian had an internal investigation into its actions?

Israelis 'followed law in Gaza'

Israel says its troops acted professionally in Gaza

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law during its operations in Gaza three months ago.

A small number of errors did take place, it admits, such as the deaths of 21 people in a wrongly targeted house, but it claims these were "unavoidable".

The military said Gaza militants had used civilian sites for cover.

Rights group have raised concerns about war crimes and say a wider, external investigation is needed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

And heres one we baked earlier, rinse and repeat

"The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law.."

hahahahahahahahahahaha! Now what would the Israeli military say about themselves? Who in the devil do you think you are communicating with. Not all Americans are brainwashed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

That's precisely the point, we don't do this for the Americans or anyone else, now go back to your cave in Pakistan or wherever you from.

Listen you little Israeli punk. I am a U.S. Army combat veteran with a tour in Vietnam under my belt with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade, and I live in Maryland. Go back to your cave in the land your people have stolen.

You are nothing but a net thug, primitive and arrogant hater, and you have no idea who I am except what your ego tells you to so here's a hint - I'm used to trash like you are used to bacon, so save the bragging and filth to yourself deep inside your cave to where it belongs.

So, telling others to return to their cave in Pakistan isn't net thuggery? You are the thug. I am responding in kind. Criticizing the murder of hundreds of children and thousands of civilians isn't "arrogant hating" whether the target is the IDF or ISIS. Both are killers of innocent people.

Rubbish.

You are a mentally unbalanced, Jew-hating racist, who claims that Israeli Jews kill children because it's in their DNA.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Crawl back under your rock, Hater.

Oh, and, a message from the Militant Muslims: "Please, for Allah's sake, stay off our side".

If it's not in your DNA, why do you people kill so many non-Jew children? Are you psychopaths?

Too late to try talking your way out of your new label as Jew-Hater and Racist now, lowlife. The damage is done. And the beauty of that is that you did it to yourself.

Talk to the hand.

All those that are critical of Israel are deemed Jew haters. It is you that enjoy and encourage the murder of non-Jewish children that is the racist and psychopath.

Nope.

You said that Israeli Jews killed children because it was in their DNA.

That's not criticism of Israel.

That's Jew-Hatred, plain and simple, and in all its naked wickedness and evil intent.

You finally 'outed' yourself.

Too late to try talking your way out of that now.

The evidence speaks for itself.

You stand condemned by your own words.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer resurrected Nazi.

Enjoy your new reputation... you've certainly earned it.

Yes, Israeli Jews kill children. No one can deny it. They killed around 500 of them in just a few weeks.

Children die in war. It's very unfortunate. But you make it sound like soldiers line up kids against a wall and execute them.
As long as Hamas doesn't attack. Israel in ANY way, Israel will not retaliate.
Deluded pro Palestinians need to comprehend this simple fact.

 

[montelatici]

When was the last time the Arab Palestinian had an internal investigation into its actions?

Israelis 'followed law in Gaza'

Israel says its troops acted professionally in Gaza

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law during its operations in Gaza three months ago.

A small number of errors did take place, it admits, such as the deaths of 21 people in a wrongly targeted house, but it claims these were "unavoidable".

The military said Gaza militants had used civilian sites for cover.

Rights group have raised concerns about war crimes and say a wider, external investigation is needed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

And heres one we baked earlier, rinse and repeat

"The Israeli military says internal investigations show it acted according to international law.."

hahahahahahahahahahaha! Now what would the Israeli military say about themselves? Who in the devil do you think you are communicating with. Not all Americans are brainwashed.

BBC NEWS Middle East Israelis followed law in Gaza

That's precisely the point, we don't do this for the Americans or anyone else, now go back to your cave in Pakistan or wherever you from.

Listen you little Israeli punk. I am a U.S. Army combat veteran with a tour in Vietnam under my belt with the 196th Light Infantry Brigade, and I live in Maryland. Go back to your cave in the land your people have stolen.

You are nothing but a net thug, primitive and arrogant hater, and you have no idea who I am except what your ego tells you to so here's a hint - I'm used to trash like you are used to bacon, so save the bragging and filth to yourself deep inside your cave to where it belongs.

So, telling others to return to their cave in Pakistan isn't net thuggery? You are the thug. I am responding in kind. Criticizing the murder of hundreds of children and thousands of civilians isn't "arrogant hating" whether the target is the IDF or ISIS. Both are killers of innocent people.

Rubbish.

You are a mentally unbalanced, Jew-hating racist, who claims that Israeli Jews kill children because it's in their DNA.

Dehumanization Palestinians most powerful enemy Page 6 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Crawl back under your rock, Hater.

Oh, and, a message from the Militant Muslims: "Please, for Allah's sake, stay off our side".

If it's not in your DNA, why do you people kill so many non-Jew children? Are you psychopaths?

Too late to try talking your way out of your new label as Jew-Hater and Racist now, lowlife. The damage is done. And the beauty of that is that you did it to yourself.

Talk to the hand.

All those that are critical of Israel are deemed Jew haters. It is you that enjoy and encourage the murder of non-Jewish children that is the racist and psychopath.

Nope.

You said that Israeli Jews killed children because it was in their DNA.

That's not criticism of Israel.

That's Jew-Hatred, plain and simple, and in all its naked wickedness and evil intent.

You finally 'outed' yourself.

Too late to try talking your way out of that now.

The evidence speaks for itself.

You stand condemned by your own words.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer resurrected Nazi.

Enjoy your new reputation... you've certainly earned it.

Yes, Israeli Jews kill children. No one can deny it. They killed around 500 of them in just a few weeks.

Children die in war. It's very unfortunate. But you make it sound like soldiers line up kids against a wall and execute them.
As long as Hamas doesn't attack. Israel in ANY way, Israel will not retaliate.
Deluded pro Palestinians need to comprehend this simple fact.

No, they have the children assemble in UN schools then bomb the schools. Much easier than lining the kids up.

End the occupation and blockade and the Palestinians will not retaliate. Deluded Israeli Firsters need to comprehend this simple fact. Better yet, get out of Palestine altogether and return to where they, their parents and grand parents came from.

 

[montelatici]

Children die in war. It's very unfortunate. But you make it sound like soldiers line up kids against a wall and execute them.
As long as Hamas doesn't attack. Israel in ANY way, Israel will not retaliate.
Deluded pro Palestinians need to comprehend this simple fact.

The Israeli Jews have the kids sent to schools and then they bomb the schools to kill as many Palestinian kids as possible with as little ammunition as possible.

"“Last night, children were killed as they slept next to their parents on the floor of a classroom in a UN designated shelter in Gaza. Children killed in their sleep; this is an affront to all of us, a source of universal shame. Today the world stands disgraced,” said UNRWA Secretary General Pierre Krähenbühl. “We have visited the site and gathered evidence. We have analysed fragments, examined craters and other damage. Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school, in which 3,300 people had sought refuge.” -

"Krähenbühl added that the Israeli attack violated international law, and that UNRWA had informed Israel of the location of the school 17 times. The Palestinians who were sheltering there had been told by the Israeli military to flee their Gaza neighborhoods, only to be hit by Israeli shells at the place they thought would be safe. -"

See more at: Children killed in their sleep Israeli artillery fire hits UN school killing at least 20

End the occupation/blockade and the Palestinians won't attack. Why the moronic Israel Firsters can't that through their thick heads is inexplicable.