CDZ Islamification of The West

[Drummond]

You didn't answer my questions.

Do you believe that my neighbors and friends share an "ideology" with ISIS?

If so, you'll have to present a significant amount of supporting evidence for your claim. They've never once tried to kill me.

Considering I never made such a claim, I will simply say have a nice evening.

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You didn't answer my questions.

Do you believe that my neighbors and friends share an "ideology" with ISIS?

If so, you'll have to present a significant amount of supporting evidence for your claim. They've never once tried to kill me.

Considering I never made such a claim, I will simply say have a nice evening.

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

There are many different groups who identify as Christian. They all have a different take on the Gospels. A Catholic is no less a Christian than a Methodist.

 

[Drummond]

You didn't answer my questions.

Do you believe that my neighbors and friends share an "ideology" with ISIS?

If so, you'll have to present a significant amount of supporting evidence for your claim. They've never once tried to kill me.

Considering I never made such a claim, I will simply say have a nice evening.

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

There are many different groups who identify as Christian. They all have a different take on the Gospels. A Catholic is no less a Christian than a Methodist.

And this has WHAT to do with my comment on Islam ?

Besides, by and large, denominational differences amount to being merely minor. A methodist wouldn't dream of agreeing that he worshipped 'a different god' to that of an Anglican, for example ? Same with Islamists .. there are the Sunnis, there are the Shia. But do they differ radically in their central worship of Islam ? I don't think so.

And both of those sides has (Sunni, Shia) has produced its warring tribes .. and its terrorists. An inspiration that Islam - demonstrably - is pleased to share out amongst its adherents ....

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You didn't answer my questions.

Do you believe that my neighbors and friends share an "ideology" with ISIS?

If so, you'll have to present a significant amount of supporting evidence for your claim. They've never once tried to kill me.

Considering I never made such a claim, I will simply say have a nice evening.

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

There are many different groups who identify as Christian. They all have a different take on the Gospels. A Catholic is no less a Christian than a Methodist.

And this has WHAT to do with my comment on Islam ?

Besides, by and large, denominational differences amount to being merely minor. A methodist wouldn't dream of agreeing that he worshipped 'a different god' to that of an Anglican, for example ? Same with Islamists .. there are the Sunnis, there are the Shia. But do they differ radically in their central worship of Islam ? I don't think so.

And both of those sides has (Sunni, Shia) has produced its warring tribes .. and its terrorists. An inspiration that Islam - demonstrably - is pleased to share out amongst its adherents ....

Well you seem to be saying that one size fits all in regards to Islam. I disagree. I also think that , like Christians, a large number of Muslims do not follow their faith "letter by letter".

They are also more likely to be influenced by social and economic pressures than their faith. Its like saying that the backward Fundamentalist Christians in Uganda represent Christianity as a whole. They obviously dont.

There are only a very small minority of Muslims who are involved in terrorism and they mainly terrorise .........Muslims.

 

[pillars]

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

Tell me, are Catholics different from Baptists and Pentacostals and Mormons?

Christianity is a single ideology, but there are many variants of it.

Same with Islam. Some sources say there are as many as 73 different variant types of Islam, but this article distills it down to five basic types.

Muslims Adhere to Different Islamic Sects - For Dummies

 

[pillars]

Political correctness is a myth, commonly used by bigots who want to stifle the conversation.

and who is being stifled here, eh?

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

I have had plenty of straw men tossed my way by those unable to debate points, yes.

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

 

[Coyote]

This thread has been massively moderated by multiple moderators and folks have been given many chances to follow CDZ guidelines. Earlier folks were warned that repeated violations will result in being booted from the thread. That is now in effect. No highjacking - stay on topic. If you have an issue with moderation - then pm the moderator who's specific bias you relate to.

As a reminder:

No Name Calling Or Putting Down Posters
No Trolling and/or Troll Threads
No Hijacking
No Personal Attacks

 

[pillars]

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

What does it mean, in practical terms, to object to the tenets of Islam? If you were the boss of things, how would you address Islam in westernized countries?

 

[Ravi]

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

I have had plenty of straw men tossed my way by those unable to debate points, yes.

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

If someone called you racist that was wrong. You can't be racist against a religion. You can be bigoted against a religion.

That being said, you do appear to be conflating the acts of some to the views of all. Not all Muslims are evil, in fact many are not.

 

[Carla_Danger]

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

I have had plenty of straw men tossed my way by those unable to debate points, yes.

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that not a single person posting on this thread supports terrorism, poor treatment of women, or stoning gay people. Does it happen? Yes, we all know it does happen, especially in places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Turkey. on the other hand, is pretty moderate. They get divorces there, they drink in bars, and recently had their first openly gay man to run for the Turkish parliament.

The problem with this thread is that the OP isn't discussing terrorism. The OP is talking about people of Muslim faith being allowed to march and celebrate a religious event, and how scary it will be for everyone when we witness these brown people marching down our streets.

You do realize that there are moderate Muslims who are against terrorism, and that only a small percentage of the 1.6 billion are terrorists, right?

 

[Arianrhod]

There are American Christians who think gays should be killed. There are always lunatics in every religion.

... once again equating modern day Christianity with modern day Islam...
.

Pastor in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Kevin "Kill the Gays" Swanson.

 

[Carla_Danger]

You didn't answer my questions.

Do you believe that my neighbors and friends share an "ideology" with ISIS?

If so, you'll have to present a significant amount of supporting evidence for your claim. They've never once tried to kill me.

Considering I never made such a claim, I will simply say have a nice evening.

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

There are many different groups who identify as Christian. They all have a different take on the Gospels. A Catholic is no less a Christian than a Methodist.

And this has WHAT to do with my comment on Islam ?

Besides, by and large, denominational differences amount to being merely minor. A methodist wouldn't dream of agreeing that he worshipped 'a different god' to that of an Anglican, for example ? Same with Islamists .. there are the Sunnis, there are the Shia. But do they differ radically in their central worship of Islam ? I don't think so.

And both of those sides has (Sunni, Shia) has produced its warring tribes .. and its terrorists. An inspiration that Islam - demonstrably - is pleased to share out amongst its adherents ....

You say there are only minor denominational differences, but the Mormon Gawd has promised Mormon's their own planet and even had them write up a different Bible. And the Jehovah Witness folks get to live here on earth forever, and they have their own Bible. Why would the same Gawd promise one group a planet and not the others?

It's perfectly clear to me, whether it be Muslim or Christian, that the more people put down their Bibles, the better people they become.

There's evidence right on this very forum of the Christian right attitude towards LBGT, and how they use religion to hate.

 

[Drummond]

Considering I never made such a claim, I will simply say have a nice evening.

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

There are many different groups who identify as Christian. They all have a different take on the Gospels. A Catholic is no less a Christian than a Methodist.

And this has WHAT to do with my comment on Islam ?

Besides, by and large, denominational differences amount to being merely minor. A methodist wouldn't dream of agreeing that he worshipped 'a different god' to that of an Anglican, for example ? Same with Islamists .. there are the Sunnis, there are the Shia. But do they differ radically in their central worship of Islam ? I don't think so.

And both of those sides has (Sunni, Shia) has produced its warring tribes .. and its terrorists. An inspiration that Islam - demonstrably - is pleased to share out amongst its adherents ....

Well you seem to be saying that one size fits all in regards to Islam. I disagree. I also think that , like Christians, a large number of Muslims do not follow their faith "letter by letter".

They are also more likely to be influenced by social and economic pressures than their faith. Its like saying that the backward Fundamentalist Christians in Uganda represent Christianity as a whole. They obviously dont.

There are only a very small minority of Muslims who are involved in terrorism and they mainly terrorise .........Muslims.

9/11. Did that mainly terrorise Muslims ?

A Muslim terrorist, before exploding a bomb somewhere, will not take an impromptu straw poll to check and see how many Muslims will be in range of the blast. Doesn't alter the fact that terrorism carries on regardless, though. Nor does it alter the fact that it's all done in the name of Islam. NOT Christianity ... ISLAM.

Regardless of the means used to coerce or persuade, Muslims do, nonetheless, expect deference from all others to their beliefs and practises. Fail to supply that, and with Leftie collusion, they won't hesitate to find a way of responding negatively. It could be through claims of 'victimisation'. It could be because some Muslim pressure group or other tries to foist a guilt trip. Tommy, if you truly come from the UK, you know this goes on here. Take that letter from Eric Pickles, a reasonable letter issued on the subject of Muslim integration and of taking on 'extremists' ... you know yourself that Muslims reacted negatively !!

PM David Cameron defends letter to Islamic leaders - BBC News

David Cameron has defended a letter urging senior Muslims to explain how Islam "can be part of British identity", amid criticism from leaders.

The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) criticised some aspects of the letter, including the "implication that extremism takes place at mosques".

Mr Cameron said the letter, written by Communities Secretary Eric Pickles, was "reasonable, sensible and moderate"
The letter was sent to 1,000 Muslim leaders after the attacks in Paris.

The prime minister said Mr Pickles was "absolutely right" to write the letter urging leaders to do more to tackle extremism.

Tommy, you want an illustration of Muslim dominance in Europe, should the UK leave the EU ? Well ... tell me this is inaccurate !! ...

 

[Drummond]

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

I have had plenty of straw men tossed my way by those unable to debate points, yes.

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that not a single person posting on this thread supports terrorism, poor treatment of women, or stoning gay people. Does it happen? Yes, we all know it does happen, especially in places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Turkey. on the other hand, is pretty moderate. They get divorces there, they drink in bars, and recently had their first openly gay man to run for the Turkish parliament.

The problem with this thread is that the OP isn't discussing terrorism. The OP is talking about people of Muslim faith being allowed to march and celebrate a religious event, and how scary it will be for everyone when we witness these brown people marching down our streets.

You do realize that there are moderate Muslims who are against terrorism, and that only a small percentage of the 1.6 billion are terrorists, right?

A dictatorship run like a Police State doesn't have to have more than a small minority of its people become part of its police force. Doesn't change the fact that it IS what it IS.

Likewise, only a very small minority of Muslims need to be terrorists, for it to be reasonably said that Islam expects to get its way, 'come-what-may', and that this includes terrorism as a means of achieving cherished aims.

How many living in the Gaza Strip are actually terrorists ? Doesn't alter the fact that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, was voted into power by something approaching a landslide vote.

The more Muslims demand, the more they expect their demands to be met. They don't integrate - fact.

 

[Carla_Danger]

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

I have had plenty of straw men tossed my way by those unable to debate points, yes.

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that not a single person posting on this thread supports terrorism, poor treatment of women, or stoning gay people. Does it happen? Yes, we all know it does happen, especially in places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Turkey. on the other hand, is pretty moderate. They get divorces there, they drink in bars, and recently had their first openly gay man to run for the Turkish parliament.

The problem with this thread is that the OP isn't discussing terrorism. The OP is talking about people of Muslim faith being allowed to march and celebrate a religious event, and how scary it will be for everyone when we witness these brown people marching down our streets.

You do realize that there are moderate Muslims who are against terrorism, and that only a small percentage of the 1.6 billion are terrorists, right?

A dictatorship run like a Police State doesn't have to have more than a small minority of its people become part of its police force. Doesn't change the fact that it IS what it IS.

Likewise, only a very small minority of Muslims need to be terrorists, for it to be reasonably said that Islam expects to get its way, 'come-what-may', and that this includes terrorism as a means of achieving cherished aims.

How many living in the Gaza Strip are actually terrorists ? Doesn't alter the fact that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, was voted into power by something approaching a landslide vote.

The more Muslims demand, the more they expect their demands to be met. They don't integrate - fact.

Why don't you tell me, how may terrorist are there in Gaza? They won a landslide back in 2006, and since then their poll numbers have been like a roller coaster.

Poll: Hamas loses popularity among Palestinians

Support for firing rockets from Gaza into Israel has dropped sharply, from 74% in December 2012, to 38% now, survey conducted by Jerusalem Media and Communications Center shows; 80% back non-violent "resistance" against Israel.

Poll: Hamas loses popularity among Palestinians

That does not change the fact that there are peaceful and moderate Muslims all over the world. There are over 2,000 mosques in the United States. We're doing just fine.

Why should they all be lumped together as terrorists?


George Bush had almost a 90% approval rating in the beginning, yet it was in the twenty percentile range when he left. That doesn't mean squat.

 

[pillars]

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

There are many different groups who identify as Christian. They all have a different take on the Gospels. A Catholic is no less a Christian than a Methodist.

And this has WHAT to do with my comment on Islam ?

Besides, by and large, denominational differences amount to being merely minor. A methodist wouldn't dream of agreeing that he worshipped 'a different god' to that of an Anglican, for example ? Same with Islamists .. there are the Sunnis, there are the Shia. But do they differ radically in their central worship of Islam ? I don't think so.

And both of those sides has (Sunni, Shia) has produced its warring tribes .. and its terrorists. An inspiration that Islam - demonstrably - is pleased to share out amongst its adherents ....

Well you seem to be saying that one size fits all in regards to Islam. I disagree. I also think that , like Christians, a large number of Muslims do not follow their faith "letter by letter".

They are also more likely to be influenced by social and economic pressures than their faith. Its like saying that the backward Fundamentalist Christians in Uganda represent Christianity as a whole. They obviously dont.

There are only a very small minority of Muslims who are involved in terrorism and they mainly terrorise .........Muslims.

9/11. Did that mainly terrorise Muslims ?

A Muslim terrorist, before exploding a bomb somewhere, will not take an impromptu straw poll to check and see how many Muslims will be in range of the blast. Doesn't alter the fact that terrorism carries on regardless, though. Nor does it alter the fact that it's all done in the name of Islam. NOT Christianity ... ISLAM.

Regardless of the means used to coerce or persuade, Muslims do, nonetheless, expect deference from all others to their beliefs and practises. Fail to supply that, and with Leftie collusion, they won't hesitate to find a way of responding negatively. It could be through claims of 'victimisation'. It could be because some Muslim pressure group or other tries to foist a guilt trip. Tommy, if you truly come from the UK, you know this goes on here. Take that letter from Eric Pickles, a reasonable letter issued on the subject of Muslim integration and of taking on 'extremists' ... you know yourself that Muslims reacted negatively !!

PM David Cameron defends letter to Islamic leaders - BBC News

David Cameron has defended a letter urging senior Muslims to explain how Islam "can be part of British identity", amid criticism from leaders.

The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) criticised some aspects of the letter, including the "implication that extremism takes place at mosques".

Mr Cameron said the letter, written by Communities Secretary Eric Pickles, was "reasonable, sensible and moderate"
The letter was sent to 1,000 Muslim leaders after the attacks in Paris.

The prime minister said Mr Pickles was "absolutely right" to write the letter urging leaders to do more to tackle extremism.

Tommy, you want an illustration of Muslim dominance in Europe, should the UK leave the EU ? Well ... tell me this is inaccurate !! ...

View attachment 75475

I see a fetus.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So you're saying that Muslims do not all share a single ideology. That's a good start.

Perhaps tomorrow, or some other day, you'll be able to elaborate on how you differentiate between them.

... Sorry -- I'm not following this. To be a Muslim, you have to believe in, follow, adhere to, Islam. Now ... unless you can tell me otherwise, of course, I understood that Islam IS a single ideology ? If you're saying it's not, can you give us a total of the number of ideologies it actually is ?

What surely matters is just how willing any one Muslim is, to 'go that extra mile' and follow Islam letter by letter, as - for example - terrorists do. Terrorists, by the way, who are not just one single group of 'nutters' who suffer from a gross misinterpretation of their creed, but MANY of them, scattered in different parts of the world. To conclude that they have all, simultaneously, misunderstood Islam, the nature of their single, shared ideology, in just the same way .. is stretching the laws of chance to nonsensical levels ...

... well, isn't it .. ?

There are many different groups who identify as Christian. They all have a different take on the Gospels. A Catholic is no less a Christian than a Methodist.

And this has WHAT to do with my comment on Islam ?

Besides, by and large, denominational differences amount to being merely minor. A methodist wouldn't dream of agreeing that he worshipped 'a different god' to that of an Anglican, for example ? Same with Islamists .. there are the Sunnis, there are the Shia. But do they differ radically in their central worship of Islam ? I don't think so.

And both of those sides has (Sunni, Shia) has produced its warring tribes .. and its terrorists. An inspiration that Islam - demonstrably - is pleased to share out amongst its adherents ....

Well you seem to be saying that one size fits all in regards to Islam. I disagree. I also think that , like Christians, a large number of Muslims do not follow their faith "letter by letter".

They are also more likely to be influenced by social and economic pressures than their faith. Its like saying that the backward Fundamentalist Christians in Uganda represent Christianity as a whole. They obviously dont.

There are only a very small minority of Muslims who are involved in terrorism and they mainly terrorise .........Muslims.

9/11. Did that mainly terrorise Muslims ?

A Muslim terrorist, before exploding a bomb somewhere, will not take an impromptu straw poll to check and see how many Muslims will be in range of the blast. Doesn't alter the fact that terrorism carries on regardless, though. Nor does it alter the fact that it's all done in the name of Islam. NOT Christianity ... ISLAM.

Regardless of the means used to coerce or persuade, Muslims do, nonetheless, expect deference from all others to their beliefs and practises. Fail to supply that, and with Leftie collusion, they won't hesitate to find a way of responding negatively. It could be through claims of 'victimisation'. It could be because some Muslim pressure group or other tries to foist a guilt trip. Tommy, if you truly come from the UK, you know this goes on here. Take that letter from Eric Pickles, a reasonable letter issued on the subject of Muslim integration and of taking on 'extremists' ... you know yourself that Muslims reacted negatively !!

PM David Cameron defends letter to Islamic leaders - BBC News

David Cameron has defended a letter urging senior Muslims to explain how Islam "can be part of British identity", amid criticism from leaders.

The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) criticised some aspects of the letter, including the "implication that extremism takes place at mosques".

Mr Cameron said the letter, written by Communities Secretary Eric Pickles, was "reasonable, sensible and moderate"
The letter was sent to 1,000 Muslim leaders after the attacks in Paris.

The prime minister said Mr Pickles was "absolutely right" to write the letter urging leaders to do more to tackle extremism.

Tommy, you want an illustration of Muslim dominance in Europe, should the UK leave the EU ? Well ... tell me this is inaccurate !! ...

View attachment 75475

Its inaccurate. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Drummond]

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

I have had plenty of straw men tossed my way by those unable to debate points, yes.

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that not a single person posting on this thread supports terrorism, poor treatment of women, or stoning gay people. Does it happen? Yes, we all know it does happen, especially in places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Turkey. on the other hand, is pretty moderate. They get divorces there, they drink in bars, and recently had their first openly gay man to run for the Turkish parliament.

The problem with this thread is that the OP isn't discussing terrorism. The OP is talking about people of Muslim faith being allowed to march and celebrate a religious event, and how scary it will be for everyone when we witness these brown people marching down our streets.

You do realize that there are moderate Muslims who are against terrorism, and that only a small percentage of the 1.6 billion are terrorists, right?

A dictatorship run like a Police State doesn't have to have more than a small minority of its people become part of its police force. Doesn't change the fact that it IS what it IS.

Likewise, only a very small minority of Muslims need to be terrorists, for it to be reasonably said that Islam expects to get its way, 'come-what-may', and that this includes terrorism as a means of achieving cherished aims.

How many living in the Gaza Strip are actually terrorists ? Doesn't alter the fact that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, was voted into power by something approaching a landslide vote.

The more Muslims demand, the more they expect their demands to be met. They don't integrate - fact.

Why don't you tell me, how may terrorist are there in Gaza? They won a landslide back in 2006, and since then their poll numbers have been like a roller coaster.

Poll: Hamas loses popularity among Palestinians

Support for firing rockets from Gaza into Israel has dropped sharply, from 74% in December 2012, to 38% now, survey conducted by Jerusalem Media and Communications Center shows; 80% back non-violent "resistance" against Israel.

Poll: Hamas loses popularity among Palestinians

That does not change the fact that there are peaceful and moderate Muslims all over the world. There are over 2,000 mosques in the United States. We're doing just fine.

Why should they all be lumped together as terrorists?


George Bush had almost a 90% approval rating in the beginning, yet it was in the twenty percentile range when he left. That doesn't mean squat.

How many terrorists are there in Gaza ? How long is a piece of string ?

Now that Hamas are in power, they'll not relinquish it. They'll use the population as shields, or as recruits for their terrorism. There have been stories of kids being sent out to Israel with bombs strapped to them, their mothers complicit (or not) .. either way, it happens.

Consider that the Gazan people must've been aware of what it was they were voting for ... in 'a landslide' vote. If they now want more of a peaceful solution, is it only because they've had to realise, the hard way, just how powerful an 'enemy' they have in Israel ... a Nation State Hamas is dedicated to seeing the destruction of ??

I daresay that when you're being bombed to hell and back, suddenly you'd want 'peace' .. as Gazans have been, courtesy of Hamas's highly provocative rocket-firing terrorist activities. But when they elected Hamas into power, BEFORE suffering Israel's military might, they were full square behind Hamas and its terrorist aims.

 

[Carla_Danger]

It seems to me that you've had plenty of opportunity to clarify your views, and have chosen not to. What exactly did you mean in that post? Be specific.

I have had plenty of straw men tossed my way by those unable to debate points, yes.

As to clarifying my views, I don't know how I can be any more clear than to point out that objecting to the tenets of a viciously anti-humanist pollitical/religious ideology is not an act of racism, even if misguided individuals incapable of discerning between ideology and skin color indulge in huge piles of nonsensical sophistry so as to try to make it so.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that not a single person posting on this thread supports terrorism, poor treatment of women, or stoning gay people. Does it happen? Yes, we all know it does happen, especially in places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Turkey. on the other hand, is pretty moderate. They get divorces there, they drink in bars, and recently had their first openly gay man to run for the Turkish parliament.

The problem with this thread is that the OP isn't discussing terrorism. The OP is talking about people of Muslim faith being allowed to march and celebrate a religious event, and how scary it will be for everyone when we witness these brown people marching down our streets.

You do realize that there are moderate Muslims who are against terrorism, and that only a small percentage of the 1.6 billion are terrorists, right?

A dictatorship run like a Police State doesn't have to have more than a small minority of its people become part of its police force. Doesn't change the fact that it IS what it IS.

Likewise, only a very small minority of Muslims need to be terrorists, for it to be reasonably said that Islam expects to get its way, 'come-what-may', and that this includes terrorism as a means of achieving cherished aims.

How many living in the Gaza Strip are actually terrorists ? Doesn't alter the fact that Hamas, a terrorist organisation, was voted into power by something approaching a landslide vote.

The more Muslims demand, the more they expect their demands to be met. They don't integrate - fact.

Why don't you tell me, how may terrorist are there in Gaza? They won a landslide back in 2006, and since then their poll numbers have been like a roller coaster.

Poll: Hamas loses popularity among Palestinians

Support for firing rockets from Gaza into Israel has dropped sharply, from 74% in December 2012, to 38% now, survey conducted by Jerusalem Media and Communications Center shows; 80% back non-violent "resistance" against Israel.

Poll: Hamas loses popularity among Palestinians

That does not change the fact that there are peaceful and moderate Muslims all over the world. There are over 2,000 mosques in the United States. We're doing just fine.

Why should they all be lumped together as terrorists?


George Bush had almost a 90% approval rating in the beginning, yet it was in the twenty percentile range when he left. That doesn't mean squat.

How many terrorists are there in Gaza ? How long is a piece of string ?

Now that Hamas are in power, they'll not relinquish it. They'll use the population as shields, or as recruits for their terrorism. There have been stories of kids being sent out to Israel with bombs strapped to them, their mothers complicit (or not) .. either way, it happens.

Consider that the Gazan people must've been aware of what it was they were voting for ... in 'a landslide' vote. If they now want more of a peaceful solution, is it only because they've had to realise, the hard way, just how powerful an 'enemy' they have in Israel ... a Nation State Hamas is dedicated to seeing the destruction of ??

I daresay that when you're being bombed to hell and back, suddenly you'd want 'peace' .. as Gazans have been, courtesy of Hamas's highly provocative rocket-firing terrorist activities. But when they elected Hamas into power, BEFORE suffering Israel's military might, they were full square behind Hamas and its terrorist aims.

So, in your mind everyone in Gaza is a terrorist because they voted in Hamas? Wowza! And somehow that makes Muslims worldwide either a terrorist or a potential terrorist? I have no idea of what exactly you're trying to say here or prove.

As much as I dislike Hamas and how they use civilians as shields, like the cowards they are, they do provide humanitarian relief, and I would imagine that's part of the reason they've had so much support. The PLO failed in that area, whereas Hamas provides funds for nurseries, schools, orphanages, soup kitchens, rent assistance, and clean water.

Those people are living in squalor with a limited water supply. So what exactly do you expect?

Again, George Bush had a 90% approval rating at the beginning of his first term. Does that mean all American's are war mongers? Were American's aware of what they voted for? Obviously not, as shown by Bush's approval ratings when he left office.

You need to find a better argument.