Islam.

[Anonymous1977]

Thank you for the post.
Matter of fact Jizya seems to me a most reasonable solution to be honest, if this is a Muslim state that is a fair "choice" , it is the other side of the choice that troubles me.
When one decide to remain in a Muslim ground they should obey the rules even if it means a discriminating rules.
The thing that troubles me is that it's either Jizya either death for Christian and Jews (not to mention Pagans) - those not following the Islam are condemned to death.
This mentality follows modern days with Islam.
Iran executes three men on homosexuality charges
How Iran Solved Its Gay Marriage Problem
Eight players of Iran's women's football team are men
Its not like they will simply let you leave or even banish you, it's just death.

As far as I know Christians can immigrate out of Moslem countries...yes it would therefore be a choice to live in a Moslem country.

And as the Bible says, Submit to governments for they are God's Servants:

(Romans 13:1-7, NKJV:) "(1)Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. (2)Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. (3)For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. (4)For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. (5)Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. (6)For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. (7)Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor."

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The Koran orders muslims to kill infidels. They are animals. End of story.

So guess if the Bible said the same thing Christians would be animals too right?

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Murder in the Bible

Dumbass.

 

[Votto]

The religion revolves around Mohammad who converted with the sword and personally beheaded some 600 prisoners and obtained female sex slaves and married children.

Mohammad was perfect in every way according to islam and no one can come after him to reform his example, he has the final say on everything. That means no one can reform an old world two bit warlord like Mo. He is who he is and so long as people revere the sick little bastard they will be doing the same things as Mo, which is why the Middle East is in flames as refugees come to Europe and America so they can turn those regions into what the Middle East is today.

 

[Coyote]

The religion revolves around Mohammad who converted with the sword and personally beheaded some 600 prisoners and obtained female sex slaves and married children.

Mohammad was perfect in every way according to islam and no one can come after him to reform his example, he has the final say on everything. That means no one can reform an old world two bit warlord like Mo. He is who he is and so long as people revere the sick little bastard they will be doing the same things as Mo, which is why the Middle East is in flames as refugees come to Europe and America so they can turn those regions into what the Middle East is today.

Actually, conversion was much like it was for Christianity - by word (because face it, Islam offered some better alternatives and more compassion for the poor or disenfranchised than did the local religions); by rulers adopting it and then spreading it to their people, and by forceable conquest.

 

[Coyote]

The problem with Islam, like with many other religions, is it's adherents.

 

[Daniyel]

The Koran orders muslims to kill infidels. They are animals. End of story.

So guess if the Bible said the same thing Christians would be animals too right?

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Murder in the Bible

Dumbass.

Although it's clear what you believe let's discuss a theoretical situation.
Knowing God exists - would you obey God's rule or not whenever God is telling you to kill all those who were ungrateful to the one giving them life in the first place?
Knowing God exists would you follow God blindly since God's judgment is far accurate than yours or you won't?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The Koran orders muslims to kill infidels. They are animals. End of story.

So guess if the Bible said the same thing Christians would be animals too right?

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Murder in the Bible

Dumbass.

Although it's clear what you believe let's discuss a theoretical situation.
Knowing God exists - would you obey God's rule or not whenever God is telling you to kill all those who were ungrateful to the one giving them life in the first place?
Knowing God exists would you follow God blindly since God's judgment is far accurate than yours or you won't?

If I knew God existed I'd likely follow/obey it out of simple fear and self-interest. Not rational to give a being you believe exists the finger anyway.

 

[Daniyel]

The problem with Islam, like with many other religions, is it's adherents.

I think that a healthy society has it's radicals, moreover a society cannot exist without radicals, the problem with Islam is that it has no radicals in both ways, at least not by any other societies scale and Muslims are one of the largest so it can't be statistical error.
Muslims can be either peaceful or hostile and it's not about radicalism because it simply doesn't exists in the Islamic spectrum.

 

[Coyote]

The problem with Islam, like with many other religions, is it's adherents.

I think that a healthy society has it's radicals, moreover a society cannot exist without radicals, the problem with Islam is that it has no radicals in both ways, at least not by any other societies scale and Muslims are one of the largest so it can't be statistical error.
Muslims can be either peaceful or hostile and it's not about radicalism because it simply doesn't exists in the Islamic spectrum.

I disagree with that intepretation - ISIS can certainly be considered radical and there has been large scale denouncements from religious and political leaders saying that they are not Islamic. There are also reformation movements within Islam trying to gain traction.

 

[Anonymous1977]

So guess if the Bible said the same thing Christians would be animals too right?

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Murder in the Bible

Dumbass.

That's actually the Old Testament, Delta...how Christians treat infidels is not murder, not saying anything about Islam's views of infidels:

"(12)What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? (13)God will judge those outside. 'Expel the wicked person from among you.'" 1 Cor. 5:12-13, NIV

Christians sometimes obviously behave against the Bible, but the Bible says that it is not the business of Christians to judge infidels.

 

[Daniyel]

The Koran orders muslims to kill infidels. They are animals. End of story.

So guess if the Bible said the same thing Christians would be animals too right?

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Murder in the Bible

Dumbass.

Although it's clear what you believe let's discuss a theoretical situation.
Knowing God exists - would you obey God's rule or not whenever God is telling you to kill all those who were ungrateful to the one giving them life in the first place?
Knowing God exists would you follow God blindly since God's judgment is far accurate than yours or you won't?

If I knew God existed I'd likely follow/obey it out of simple fear and self-interest. Not rational to give a being you believe exists the finger anyway.

The logical reason is to follow a wiser person, nevertheless God's ultimate wisdom.
Knowing God created the world for the purpose of you following God's will and still not to follow is a little bit ungrateful don't you think? like the rest of us - humans - we follow emotional decision making and this is never the wisest choice.

 

[Daniyel]

The problem with Islam, like with many other religions, is it's adherents.

I think that a healthy society has it's radicals, moreover a society cannot exist without radicals, the problem with Islam is that it has no radicals in both ways, at least not by any other societies scale and Muslims are one of the largest so it can't be statistical error.
Muslims can be either peaceful or hostile and it's not about radicalism because it simply doesn't exists in the Islamic spectrum.

I disagree with that intepretation - ISIS can certainly be considered radical and there has been large scale denouncements from religious and political leaders saying that they are not Islamic. There are also reformation movements within Islam trying to gain traction.

In fact you just pointed out what I was saying earlier, radical by it's pure definition as out of the normal just rarely exists in Islam.

 

[Sallow]

Islam is one of about 25,000 other discrete religious systems. If Islam is 'about anything' it's submission to Allah (God.) It's based for the most part directly off Judaism even copying our idea of a holy book from God, then another from man (Tanach/Talmud, Qur'an/a-Hadiths.) Doesn't even pretend to be original which is kinda nice referring in sura 2 something to the effect of "...and we took from the people of the book [Jews] a covenant..." Meaning the covenant between man and God between the Jews Muslims feel wasn't 'followed through' enough with so they came along and picked up where Jews left off.

After 9/11 I studied Islam. Whole know your enemy thing. It's objectively no different than Judaism or Christianity repeating the same things, forbidding the same things, etc. Biggest difference is just that unlike Judaism, and more than Christianity it goes into great detail about the afterlife. But because it's based off the two pre-extant 'super faiths' Christianity and Judaism, there's very little in it than isn't in the others. Calls to kill infidels is actually from Torah, not original to Qur'an. I think they invented the 'sex slaves' in heaven notion though because try as I might, liking that idea, I can't find it in TOrah

They are all the same books. It's essentially the same religion.

 

[Votto]

Islam is one of about 25,000 other discrete religious systems. If Islam is 'about anything' it's submission to Allah (God.) It's based for the most part directly off Judaism even copying our idea of a holy book from God, then another from man (Tanach/Talmud, Qur'an/a-Hadiths.) Doesn't even pretend to be original which is kinda nice referring in sura 2 something to the effect of "...and we took from the people of the book [Jews] a covenant..." Meaning the covenant between man and God between the Jews Muslims feel wasn't 'followed through' enough with so they came along and picked up where Jews left off.

After 9/11 I studied Islam. Whole know your enemy thing. It's objectively no different than Judaism or Christianity repeating the same things, forbidding the same things, etc. Biggest difference is just that unlike Judaism, and more than Christianity it goes into great detail about the afterlife. But because it's based off the two pre-extant 'super faiths' Christianity and Judaism, there's very little in it than isn't in the others. Calls to kill infidels is actually from Torah, not original to Qur'an. I think they invented the 'sex slaves' in heaven notion though because try as I might, liking that idea, I can't find it in TOrah

They are all the same books. It's essentially the same religion.

No, no they are not.

In the OT you have instances where God tells the Hebrews to wipe out some cannanite cities. However, in Islam you have an open command to kill the infidel. The Cannanites are long gone as where there is a never ending supply of infidels.

Then there is Jesus. No where do we see Jesus advocating raising a sword in the name of God. Instead, he preaches the exact opposite. Jesus and Mohammad are polar opposites.

And there you have it. Within Judiasm you have closed end orders to kill and in Islam you have open ended orders to kill. Within Christianity you have neither.

That is why I believe Islam and mental illness is a deadly combo. It's just a matter of interpreting those open ended orders to kill the infidel. Statistically, terrorism occurs mostly in Islam.

It's like hearing about a dog killing or maiming someone. 9 times out of 10 it is a pit bull because that is what they are bred to do. Sure, most pit bulls are just fine, but those who turn bad usually result in someones death

 

[RandomVariable]

The problem with Islam, like with many other religions, is it's adherents.

I think that a healthy society has it's radicals, moreover a society cannot exist without radicals, the problem with Islam is that it has no radicals in both ways, at least not by any other societies scale and Muslims are one of the largest so it can't be statistical error.
Muslims can be either peaceful or hostile and it's not about radicalism because it simply doesn't exists in the Islamic spectrum.

I disagree with that intepretation - ISIS can certainly be considered radical and there has been large scale denouncements from religious and political leaders saying that they are not Islamic. There are also reformation movements within Islam trying to gain traction.

Link? And how can ISIS be considered radical if they stay within the koran's teachings? Devote maybe, but not radical.

 

[RandomVariable]

The Koran orders muslims to kill infidels. They are animals. End of story.

So guess if the Bible said the same thing Christians would be animals too right?

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Murder in the Bible

Dumbass.

To whom do the laws of Moses apply?

 

[Penelope]

I hope your invitation extends to non Muslims, as there are more of them on this board than there are Muslims. Myself I am of the view that the Quran is filled with justifications for terrorist acts. I can soon quote you many verses that show this. For example, off the top of my head without remembering the sura number, I recall a verse that says approximately this. "fighting is prescribed for you whether you like it or not"

Sounds like the US when it had its draft, and well I think some countries still have the draft.

 

[Penelope]

The religion revolves around Mohammad who converted with the sword and personally beheaded some 600 prisoners and obtained female sex slaves and married children.

Mohammad was perfect in every way according to islam and no one can come after him to reform his example, he has the final say on everything. That means no one can reform an old world two bit warlord like Mo. He is who he is and so long as people revere the sick little bastard they will be doing the same things as Mo, which is why the Middle East is in flames as refugees come to Europe and America so they can turn those regions into what the Middle East is today.

You do know they say Benjamin got married at the age of 10, how old do you think his wife was??
Mohammad learned it from King Solomon I guess(when he read about his concubines or was told stories of them)

 

[Votto]

The religion revolves around Mohammad who converted with the sword and personally beheaded some 600 prisoners and obtained female sex slaves and married children.

Mohammad was perfect in every way according to islam and no one can come after him to reform his example, he has the final say on everything. That means no one can reform an old world two bit warlord like Mo. He is who he is and so long as people revere the sick little bastard they will be doing the same things as Mo, which is why the Middle East is in flames as refugees come to Europe and America so they can turn those regions into what the Middle East is today.

You do know they say Benjamin got married at the age of 10, how old do you think his wife was??
Mohammad learned it from King Solomon I guess(when he read about his concubines or was told stories of them)

Really? So all we have are rumors?

There are no rumors when it comes to the Quran. His followers memorize every word as if it were the gospel truth. That's why some Muslims have child brides. How can they be condemned for it when Mo did it?

Again, if others have married children, which they have, does it carry the same weight as if Mo did it? No, it does not. That is because they revere the guy to the point of worship, even though they deny such worship. They simply think Mo never sinned.

I would say that cults arise from following either a personality or organization. God should be the focus and him only. All others are cults. Even the most beloved of characters in the Bible had flaws, such as king David committing adultery and murder. Of course, Muslims refuse to believe king David had such flaws. That is because they must believe humans can be perfect like Mo.

 

[Penelope]

The religion revolves around Mohammad who converted with the sword and personally beheaded some 600 prisoners and obtained female sex slaves and married children.

Mohammad was perfect in every way according to islam and no one can come after him to reform his example, he has the final say on everything. That means no one can reform an old world two bit warlord like Mo. He is who he is and so long as people revere the sick little bastard they will be doing the same things as Mo, which is why the Middle East is in flames as refugees come to Europe and America so they can turn those regions into what the Middle East is today.

You do know they say Benjamin got married at the age of 10, how old do you think his wife was??
Mohammad learned it from King Solomon I guess(when he read about his concubines or was told stories of them)

Really? So all we have are rumors?

There are no rumors when it comes to the Quran. His followers memorize every word as if it were the gospel truth. That's why some Muslims have child brides. How can they be condemned for it when Mo did it?

Again, if others have married children, which they have, does it carry the same weight as if Mo did it? No, it does not. That is because they revere the guy to the point of worship, even though they deny such worship. They simply think Mo never sinned.

I would say that cults arise from following either a personality or organization. God should be the focus and him only. All others are cults.

Really, then why not back up what you say with some legitimate links. Also getting married early did not mean sex right away, they usually waited until menses. Back then it was no considered pedophilia, like it is today.