Islam.

[Daniyel]

Hello

I would like to start a discussion here about Islam.
I Invite all Muslims to respond here, feel free to express yourself.

I Don't think I can come up with a title for the discussion, so I'll try to summarize it into one big question, The Islam usually talk about peace and tolerance toward the others but most of the time we are hearing about Islamic terrorists, the fact they justify massacres by Islam oppose all the peace and tolerance of the Islam, I personally think radicalism is wrong in any term of life, but it is a fact most of the religious radicalism involves Islam.


Any thoughts?

 

[Dajjal]

I hope your invitation extends to non Muslims, as there are more of them on this board than there are Muslims. Myself I am of the view that the Quran is filled with justifications for terrorist acts. I can soon quote you many verses that show this. For example, off the top of my head without remembering the sura number, I recall a verse that says approximately this. "fighting is prescribed for you whether you like it or not"

 

[Daniyel]

Uhm..well I'm inviting everyone, Muslims and non-Muslims.

 

[Uncensored2008]

So, this is a flame thread then?

 

[Daniyel]

So, this is a flame thread then?

Personal perspective.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Hello

I would like to start a discussion here about Islam.
I Invite all Muslims to respond here, feel free to express yourself.

I Don't think I can come up with a title for the discussion, so I'll try to summarize it into one big question, The Islam usually talk about peace and tolerance toward the others but most of the time we are hearing about Islamic terrorists, the fact they justify massacres by Islam oppose all the peace and tolerance of the Islam, I personally think radicalism is wrong in any term of life, but it is a fact most of the religious radicalism involves Islam.


Any thoughts?

Hate to ruin a good hate thread with the facts but:

"Muslim American terrorist plots have killed since 9/11 — since the 3,000 killed on 9/11 — have killed 33 individuals in the United States since that time. Over that same period of time, there have been more than 150,000 murders in the United States, or 14 or 15,000 murders every year. Muslim American terrorism, then, has been a very small, very low percentage of the overall violence in the United States."
Terrorism Expert: Since 9/11, Only 33 Deaths From Muslim Terrorism Vs. 150,000 Deaths From Murders | ThinkProgress

"Kansas City - Since 9/11, right wing extremists have killed more Americans than Islamic jihadists, yet attacks committed by the former don't get anywhere near the amount of coverage-- or government attention-- as violence perpetrated by the latter.
Underwood, Corporon and LaManno are the 32nd, 33rd and 34th people killed by right-wing extremists, including anti-government militia members, Christian fundamentalists and white supremacists, in the United States since the September 11, 2001 Islamic terror attacks, according to the New America Foundation, a non-partisan public policy institute. Over that same period, Islamic jihadists have killed 23 people in the US."
Since 9/11, right-wing violence has killed more in US than jihad

"Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil
Terrorism Is a Real Threat … But the Threat to the U.S. from Muslim Terrorists Has Been Exaggerated
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database
According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company."
Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil Washington's Blog


Nothing Jewish about lying, misrepresenting facts, or twisting stats to malign over a billion people. If you recall, the same was once done to us with nasty results.

 

[BillyP]

The Koran orders muslims to kill infidels. They are animals. End of story.

 

[Daniyel]

Hate to ruin a good hate thread with the facts but:

"Muslim American terrorist plots have killed since 9/11 — since the 3,000 killed on 9/11 — have killed 33 individuals in the United States since that time. Over that same period of time, there have been more than 150,000 murders in the United States, or 14 or 15,000 murders every year. Muslim American terrorism, then, has been a very small, very low percentage of the overall violence in the United States."
Terrorism Expert: Since 9/11, Only 33 Deaths From Muslim Terrorism Vs. 150,000 Deaths From Murders | ThinkProgress

"Kansas City - Since 9/11, right wing extremists have killed more Americans than Islamic jihadists, yet attacks committed by the former don't get anywhere near the amount of coverage-- or government attention-- as violence perpetrated by the latter.
Underwood, Corporon and LaManno are the 32nd, 33rd and 34th people killed by right-wing extremists, including anti-government militia members, Christian fundamentalists and white supremacists, in the United States since the September 11, 2001 Islamic terror attacks, according to the New America Foundation, a non-partisan public policy institute. Over that same period, Islamic jihadists have killed 23 people in the US."
Since 9/11, right-wing violence has killed more in US than jihad

"Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil
Terrorism Is a Real Threat … But the Threat to the U.S. from Muslim Terrorists Has Been Exaggerated
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database
According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company."
Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil Washington's Blog


Nothing Jewish about lying, misrepresenting facts, or twisting stats to malign over a billion people. If you recall, the same was once done to us with nasty results.

When did I mentioned Jews in the this thread?
Anyway, MOST of the resources invested to prevent these attacks in the US and Israel for example, in the rest of the world..well.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hate to ruin a good hate thread with the facts but:

What you offer are not fact, but leftist propaganda.

The link on "right wing violence" is Goebbels level demagoguery.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Islam is one of about 25,000 other discrete religious systems. If Islam is 'about anything' it's submission to Allah (God.) It's based for the most part directly off Judaism even copying our idea of a holy book from God, then another from man (Tanach/Talmud, Qur'an/a-Hadiths.) Doesn't even pretend to be original which is kinda nice referring in sura 2 something to the effect of "...and we took from the people of the book [Jews] a covenant..." Meaning the covenant between man and God between the Jews Muslims feel wasn't 'followed through' enough with so they came along and picked up where Jews left off.

After 9/11 I studied Islam. Whole know your enemy thing. It's objectively no different than Judaism or Christianity repeating the same things, forbidding the same things, etc. Biggest difference is just that unlike Judaism, and more than Christianity it goes into great detail about the afterlife. But because it's based off the two pre-extant 'super faiths' Christianity and Judaism, there's very little in it than isn't in the others. Calls to kill infidels is actually from Torah, not original to Qur'an. I think they invented the 'sex slaves' in heaven notion though because try as I might, liking that idea, I can't find it in TOrah

 

[Uncensored2008]

Islam is one of about 25,000 other discrete religious systems. If Islam is 'about anything' it's submission to Allah (God.) It's based for the most part directly off Judaism even copying our idea of a holy book from God, then another from man (Tanach/Talmud, Qur'an/a-Hadiths.) Doesn't even pretend to be original which is kinda nice referring in sura 2 something to the effect of "...and we took from the people of the book [Jews] a covenant..." Meaning the covenant between man and God between the Jews Muslims feel wasn't 'followed through' enough with so they came along and picked up where Jews left off.

After 9/11 I studied Islam. Whole know your enemy thing. It's objectively no different than Judaism or Christianity repeating the same things, forbidding the same things, etc. Biggest difference is just that unlike Judaism, and more than Christianity it goes into great detail about the afterlife. But because it's based off the two pre-extant 'super faiths' Christianity and Judaism, there's very little in it than isn't in the others. Calls to kill infidels is actually from Torah, not original to Qur'an. I think they invented the 'sex slaves' in heaven notion though because try as I might, liking that idea, I can't find it in TOrah

All I can say dude, is you are not a very good student.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Compared to you who writes bumperstickers for a living by the look of your rebuttal, I'm a freaking genius.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Compared to you who writes bumperstickers for a living by the look of your rebuttal, I'm a freaking genius.

I forget more about Islam in a nights sleep than you will ever know.

Where you deemed to "study" Islam by logging on to DailyKOS and watching MSNBC, I actually read the Koran and selected Hadiths.

 

[Daniyel]

Delta, you keep mentioning other religions..I'm not even talking about the commands or belief but I stated that my personal perspective based on what we see today all over the world, stick to the subject.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I studied Qur'an the same way I do other faiths, I read their holy book. And for someone claiming to have done the same, that you can't spell Qur'an is odd.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I studied Qur'an the same way I do other faiths, I read their holy book. And for someone claiming to have done the same, that you can't spell Qur'an is odd.

I realize that you are an Islamic sympathizer/promoter - but "Koran" is indeed the proper spelling.


http://www2.hn.psu.edu/faculty/jmanis/koran/koran.pdf

 

[Anonymous1977]

Hello

I would like to start a discussion here about Islam.
I Invite all Muslims to respond here, feel free to express yourself.

I Don't think I can come up with a title for the discussion, so I'll try to summarize it into one big question, The Islam usually talk about peace and tolerance toward the others but most of the time we are hearing about Islamic terrorists, the fact they justify massacres by Islam oppose all the peace and tolerance of the Islam, I personally think radicalism is wrong in any term of life, but it is a fact most of the religious radicalism involves Islam.


Any thoughts?

Hi Daniyel (if you're still out there) ,

I'm a Christian, but I would like to say that Islam makes non-Muslims in Muslim societies pay a special tax that the Qur'an says is for the purpose of humiliation (exact words: paid "in acknowledgement of Muslim's superiority.") Qur'an 9:29, Shakir translation:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hi Daniyel (if you're still out there) ,

I'm a Christian, but I would like to say that Islam makes non-Muslims in Muslim societies pay a special tax that the Qur'an says is for the purpose of humiliation (exact words: paid "in acknowledgement of Muslim's superiority.") Qur'an 9:29, Shakir translation:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Jizya - the tax placed on Dhimmis.

 

[Daniyel]

Hello

I would like to start a discussion here about Islam.
I Invite all Muslims to respond here, feel free to express yourself.

I Don't think I can come up with a title for the discussion, so I'll try to summarize it into one big question, The Islam usually talk about peace and tolerance toward the others but most of the time we are hearing about Islamic terrorists, the fact they justify massacres by Islam oppose all the peace and tolerance of the Islam, I personally think radicalism is wrong in any term of life, but it is a fact most of the religious radicalism involves Islam.


Any thoughts?

Hi Daniyel (if you're still out there) ,

I'm a Christian, but I would like to say that Islam makes non-Muslims in Muslim societies pay a special tax that the Qur'an says is for the purpose of humiliation (exact words: paid "in acknowledgement of Muslim's superiority.") Qur'an 9:29, Shakir translation:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Thank you for the post.
Matter of fact Jizya seems to me a most reasonable solution to be honest, if this is a Muslim state that is a fair "choice" , it is the other side of the choice that troubles me.
When one decide to remain in a Muslim ground they should obey the rules even if it means a discriminating rules.
The thing that troubles me is that it's either Jizya either death for Christian and Jews (not to mention Pagans) - those not following the Islam are condemned to death.
This mentality follows modern days with Islam.
Iran executes three men on homosexuality charges
How Iran Solved Its Gay Marriage Problem
Eight players of Iran's women's football team are men
Its not like they will simply let you leave or even banish you, it's just death.

 

[Anonymous1977]

Mr. Yusuf Ali's footnote to Qur'an 9:29 explaining what Jizya is...his translation of the Qur'an is a standard translation among Moslems:

"Jizya: the root meaning is compensation. The derived meaning, which became the technical meaning, was a poll-tax levied from those who did not accept Islam, but were willing to live under the protection of Islam, and were thus tacitly willing to submit to its ideals being enforced in the Muslim State. There was no amount permanently fixed for it. It was in acknowledgment that those whose religion was tolerated would in their turn not interfere with the preaching and progress of Islam. Imam Shafi'i suggests one dinar per year, which would be the Arabian gold dinar of the Muslim States. The tax varied in amount, and there were exemptions for the poor, for females and children (according to Abu Hanifa), for slaves, and for monks and hermits. Being a tax on able-bodied males of military age, it was in a sense a commutation for military service."