Is Violence Against Women EVER Justified?

[JakeStarkey]

Women do victimize men physically, according to kg's own sources. I believe that men do victimize physically women more often than women do the men. But to state emphatically as kg does that female verbal bullying is acceptable completely undermines her basic arguments.

 

[koshergrl]

The U.S. Department of Justice has found that 85% of the victims of spouse abuse are female. Men can be victims, but it is rare.


The piece also explained that the violence towards women is almost without exception more severe.

"In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. Intimate partner homicides accounted for 30% of the murders of women and 5% percent of the murders of men.
(Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief, Intimate Partner Violence, 1993-2001, February 2003. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Intimate Partner Violence in the U.S. 1993-2004, 2006.)"

Domestic Violence Resource Center | Domestic violence statistics

Got anything more recent?

I don't know..those are pretty recent. The page is 2012. Stats aren't generally available for a couple of years...and hold fairly constant. Anything from 2000 on is fairly current.

People don't realize how difficult it is for victims to reach out, just because of the sort of crap going on in this thread. There is never any reason for a man to hit a woman. There is never any reason for a woman to hit a man (aside from trying to escape/get away).

My ex would smack me, then rip his OWN SHIRT and when the cops came would say "see what she did to me? I was just PROTECTING MYSELF". He didn't just do that to me, he did it to his ex as well. He picked up his 10 year old boy by his ears, shook him, then when the kid called mom to come pick him up and she showed up, the asshole ripped his shirt, smacked himself a few times, then picked up the p hone and called the cops on her....and SHE went to jail. Her attorney called me and asked me to testify in her trial, if it went to trial, because at the time he was facing trial for felonious assault for what he did to me (there was no question who was beat up in that incident).

The point is, batterers use these excuses. And a huge red flag that will tell you there's an abuser in front of you is a guy who likes to consider/talk about how beating a woman could be justified. Because that's the way they map it out. They set it up before it happens. They psych themselves up for it, and they look for their opening.

 

[Si modo]

So I was having a discussion with the wife about if and when it is ever ok for a man to hit a women. Now the stereotypical answer is “never”. But is that really realistic? Let me toss out some scenarios where a man hit a women. Each of these I have personally witnessed (no I wasn’t the one doing the hitting) and in each case I felt the girl got exactly what she deserved.

Example 1: A buddy of mine had a girlfriend who made no secret that in her opinion she could hit him as much as she wanted because the moment he dared to hit back he would go to jail instead of her and no court would ever convict a woman of being abusive toward a man. I mean she actually bragged about it. She beat on that guy like a drum constantly until one day he finally had enough and “returned the treatment”. (Note: He would have simply left her but they had a child together and he couldn’t leave the child with an abusive woman until he could prove in court she was abusive – eventually that did happen.)

Example 2: To make a long story short, a beautiful woman stole our table at a crowded bar. My brother asked her politely to leave several times and offered to buy her a drink if she would depart. She refused every time told him “beautiful women only take orders when they feel like it so there’s not much you can do about it is there?” and then she blew smoke in his face. He asked her to leave again and warned her that if she blew smoke in his face again he would punch her dead in the face. She said “oh really? I dare you”, leaned directly into his face and exhaled a cloud of smoke around my brothers head….he broke her nose.

Example 3: A woman stood behind her boyfriend screaming at this other guy calling him every name in the book, making reference to his questionable parentage…I mean you name it and she said it. Her boyfriend stood between them and although he wasn’t being aggressive toward the other guy neither was he telling his girlfriend to shut the hell up either. Finally her boyfriend said “you will have to go through me first to shut her up”. The guy said “I accept your terms” and after he beat the shit out of her boyfriend he walked up to the women and punched her dead in the mouth and told her “you got your boyfriends ass kicked you should share his pain.”

Now as I said…..these were thing I witnessed where I said to myself “normally I would never endorse violence of any kind let alone against women…..but in this case….the bitch was begging for it.”

I welcome thoughts.

I'm jealous. I have never witness a fight or anyone throw a blow in real life.

Ever.

Not even close, as a matter of fact.

 

[koshergrl]

I'm sure you think that, JS. The wimmens is out to get you, and that's why it's okay for you to attack them first. You're just *protecting* yourself.

 

[BDBoop]

I can't go painting everybody with the same brush, male or female. These situations happen, people discuss them. That doesn't mean they are looking for permission or approval.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The U.S. Department of Justice has found that 85% of the victims of spouse abuse are female. Men can be victims, but it is rare.


The piece also explained that the violence towards women is almost without exception more severe.

"In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. Intimate partner homicides accounted for 30% of the murders of women and 5% percent of the murders of men.
(Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief, Intimate Partner Violence, 1993-2001, February 2003. Bureau of Justice Statistics, Intimate Partner Violence in the U.S. 1993-2004, 2006.)"

Domestic Violence Resource Center | Domestic violence statistics

Got anything more recent?

I don't know..those are pretty recent. The page is 2012. Stats aren't generally available for a couple of years...and hold fairly constant. Anything from 2000 on is fairly current.

People don't realize how difficult it is for victims to reach out, just because of the sort of crap going on in this thread. There is never any reason for a man to hit a woman. There is never any reason for a woman to hit a man (aside from trying to escape/get away).

My ex would smack me, then rip his OWN SHIRT and when the cops came would say "see what she did to me? I was just PROTECTING MYSELF". He didn't just do that to me, he did it to his ex as well. He picked up his 10 year old boy by his ears, shook him, then when the kid called mom to come pick him up and she showed up, the asshole ripped his shirt, smacked himself a few times, then picked up the p hone and called the cops on her....and SHE went to jail. Her attorney called me and asked me to testify in her trial, if it went to trial, because at the time he was facing trial for felonious assault for what he did to me (there was no question who was beat up in that incident).

The point is, batterers use these excuses. And a huge red flag that will tell you there's an abuser in front of you is a guy who likes to consider/talk about how beating a woman could be justified. Because that's the way they map it out. They set it up before it happens. They psych themselves up for it, and they look for their opening.

Why are you ignoring the very fact of verbal violence by women, kg?

 

[koshergrl]

So I was having a discussion with the wife about if and when it is ever ok for a man to hit a women. Now the stereotypical answer is “never”. But is that really realistic? Let me toss out some scenarios where a man hit a women. Each of these I have personally witnessed (no I wasn’t the one doing the hitting) and in each case I felt the girl got exactly what she deserved.

Example 1: A buddy of mine had a girlfriend who made no secret that in her opinion she could hit him as much as she wanted because the moment he dared to hit back he would go to jail instead of her and no court would ever convict a woman of being abusive toward a man. I mean she actually bragged about it. She beat on that guy like a drum constantly until one day he finally had enough and “returned the treatment”. (Note: He would have simply left her but they had a child together and he couldn’t leave the child with an abusive woman until he could prove in court she was abusive – eventually that did happen.)

Example 2: To make a long story short, a beautiful woman stole our table at a crowded bar. My brother asked her politely to leave several times and offered to buy her a drink if she would depart. She refused every time told him “beautiful women only take orders when they feel like it so there’s not much you can do about it is there?” and then she blew smoke in his face. He asked her to leave again and warned her that if she blew smoke in his face again he would punch her dead in the face. She said “oh really? I dare you”, leaned directly into his face and exhaled a cloud of smoke around my brothers head….he broke her nose.

Example 3: A woman stood behind her boyfriend screaming at this other guy calling him every name in the book, making reference to his questionable parentage…I mean you name it and she said it. Her boyfriend stood between them and although he wasn’t being aggressive toward the other guy neither was he telling his girlfriend to shut the hell up either. Finally her boyfriend said “you will have to go through me first to shut her up”. The guy said “I accept your terms” and after he beat the shit out of her boyfriend he walked up to the women and punched her dead in the mouth and told her “you got your boyfriends ass kicked you should share his pain.”

Now as I said…..these were thing I witnessed where I said to myself “normally I would never endorse violence of any kind let alone against women…..but in this case….the bitch was begging for it.”

I welcome thoughts.

I'm jealous. I have never witness a fight or anyone throw a blow in real life.

Ever.

Not even close, as a matter of fact.

Yeah, these sound like drunken brawls to me.....one reason why it's not a good idea to spend a lot of time hanging in bars.

 

[BDBoop]

I'm still looking for what happened to his brother after he assaulted that woman.

 

[koshergrl]

See, I don't see how a drunk woman blowing smoke in your face at a bar is a face-punchable offense.

I don't see it, because it's not.

Brother should have gone to jail. He probably didn't. What a puke.

 

[koshergrl]

Even more revolting is the fact that it's obvious that BPh admires his brother for breaking the chick's nose.

That's also a perfect example of how abusers set up the situation to allow them to do it....he "gave her a warning". Well, sure he did...but she was most likely drunk, and probably flirting with him....or maybe not. But she didn't hit him, and he ramped himself up ahead of time to justify it. He wasn't in danger, she didn't hurt him. He just wanted to hit her.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Why are you ignoring the very fact of verbal violence by women, kg?

Because you can't answer it without looking like a fool. But, go for it.

 

[koshergrl]

There's no such thing as verbal violence.

There is verbal ABUSE. Not the same thing.

 

[koshergrl]

http://www.hruth.org/files/library/CycleofViolence.pdf

 

[koshergrl]

 

[Si modo]

So I was having a discussion with the wife about if and when it is ever ok for a man to hit a women. Now the stereotypical answer is “never”. But is that really realistic? Let me toss out some scenarios where a man hit a women. Each of these I have personally witnessed (no I wasn’t the one doing the hitting) and in each case I felt the girl got exactly what she deserved.

Example 1: A buddy of mine had a girlfriend who made no secret that in her opinion she could hit him as much as she wanted because the moment he dared to hit back he would go to jail instead of her and no court would ever convict a woman of being abusive toward a man. I mean she actually bragged about it. She beat on that guy like a drum constantly until one day he finally had enough and “returned the treatment”. (Note: He would have simply left her but they had a child together and he couldn’t leave the child with an abusive woman until he could prove in court she was abusive – eventually that did happen.)

Example 2: To make a long story short, a beautiful woman stole our table at a crowded bar. My brother asked her politely to leave several times and offered to buy her a drink if she would depart. She refused every time told him “beautiful women only take orders when they feel like it so there’s not much you can do about it is there?” and then she blew smoke in his face. He asked her to leave again and warned her that if she blew smoke in his face again he would punch her dead in the face. She said “oh really? I dare you”, leaned directly into his face and exhaled a cloud of smoke around my brothers head….he broke her nose.

Example 3: A woman stood behind her boyfriend screaming at this other guy calling him every name in the book, making reference to his questionable parentage…I mean you name it and she said it. Her boyfriend stood between them and although he wasn’t being aggressive toward the other guy neither was he telling his girlfriend to shut the hell up either. Finally her boyfriend said “you will have to go through me first to shut her up”. The guy said “I accept your terms” and after he beat the shit out of her boyfriend he walked up to the women and punched her dead in the mouth and told her “you got your boyfriends ass kicked you should share his pain.”

Now as I said…..these were thing I witnessed where I said to myself “normally I would never endorse violence of any kind let alone against women…..but in this case….the bitch was begging for it.”

I welcome thoughts.

I'm jealous. I have never witness a fight or anyone throw a blow in real life.

Ever.

Not even close, as a matter of fact.

Yeah, these sound like drunken brawls to me.....one reason why it's not a good idea to spend a lot of time hanging in bars.

The funny thing is, I've spent a hell of a lot of time in bars (not so much any more), but never saw a thing.

As for a comment on the topic, I think the never-hit-a-woman idea may be a good thing to aspire to, but I am certain there are situations where a pop wouldn't offend me.

I'm not big on solving problems with physical violence, though. There is nothing wrong with walking away when someone cannot control their abusive language. Why engage that sort of idiocy in any way?

And, the women in the examples are pure morons.

 

[TrinityPower]

http://www.hruth.org/files/library/CycleofViolence.pdf

and this diagram is not depicting a gender is it? You are again ASSUMING it is depicting a man.

 

[BDBoop]

There's no such thing as verbal violence.

There is verbal ABUSE. Not the same thing.

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

 

[koshergrl]

Another thing many batterers do...during the honeymoon phase, they will lull the victim into a feeling of well being. They'll often encourage her to engage in illegal or partying behaviors with them...this means that there can be events that spring from that behavior...csd involvement, arrests, you name it....

So that when they do attack, and the cops are called, BOTH parties have criminal records or a history with the police. The victim is suspect, because she has been known to engage in questionable behaviors, she's been seen to hang on this guy....so more credence is given to his story than hers.

I've talked to women who had abusers who would encourage them to drink or do drugs...when the woman would demur, her partner would become enraged, scream "Oh so you're too good to party with me???" and then when they were both wasted, beat the shit out of her. By then she's under the influence and unable to effectively communicate or even come across as sympathetic.

Women often will TRIGGER the violent episodes, because they get tired of walking on eggshells. They know it's coming, they've been through it before, and they will initiate a confrontation to get it over.

These are all common behaviors of batters and victims. It's convoluted and ugly, and that's why there's absolutely no wiggle room. It is NEVER okay to hit somebody. Ever. You don't hit them for blowing smoke in your face. You don't hit them for calling you names. You don't hit them for screaming at you. DON'T HIT.

 

[koshergrl]

There's no such thing as verbal violence.

There is verbal ABUSE. Not the same thing.

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

 

[TrinityPower]

There's no such thing as verbal violence.

There is verbal ABUSE. Not the same thing.

Oh, now you are totally talking out your ass.

Give me an example of verbal violence, idiot.

This is right up there with verbal rape. I can't wait.

Hmmm...you just called someone a name...that isn't verbal violence?