Is Tom Brady the Greatest Ever?

[sealybobo]

Seriously, what the hell happened to Kaepernick? Three years ago he was a beast, now he looks like he forgot how to play.

Remember tebo won a few games and even won a playoff game? Eventually they figured him out

 

[rightwinger]

Brady by far..........Different receiving corps almost every yr. How many more would be have won with a Jerry Rice.....

Look at how many HOF offensive players surrounded Brady....Just Randy Moss for two years

Montana had the greatest receiver of all time in Jerry Rice and John Taylor who belongs

 

[rightwinger]

There are 3 greatest quarterbacks of all time with 4 Superbowls each Brady, Montana and Bradshaw. If he wins this one, Brady is number one.

Don't people give jim kelly a lot of credit just for making it to 4 superbowls and losing them? OK, now consider if Brady loses that will be 3 times he lost a Superbowl?

So wouldn't you say a QB who made it to 3 superbowls and lost them was pretty damn good? So even if you took away bradys 4 superbowl wins you would admit he's pretty damn good. How many men have been to 3 superbowls? Not many. He's either going to be 4 wins 3 loses or 5 wins 2 loses. Either way that's a lot more winning than anyone else. I'd rather have bradys career than anyone elses

Brady is going to his seventh Superbowl and has been to eleven AFC Championship games and 33 total playoff games

Quite a career

 

[yiostheoy]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

 

[gipper]

When you consider Brady's inability to run or even avoid the rush, plus the fact that for many years he did not have great receivers like Jerry Rice or Lynn Swan to throw to or a great running back like Franco Harris or Roger Craig to hand off to, I think he has to be considered the best of all time. He did it on his smarts, arm, and determination.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm sure everyone already knows how I voted . . . YES!

 

[ChrisL]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

Obviously you are someone who knows nothing about the game of football. I don't know why you haters insist on posting on these threads because it's pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[yiostheoy]

I think Terry Bradshaw is still the all time greatest.

Brady and Montana have tied him but not exceeded him yet.

I am hoping Matt Ryan will squash Brady once and for all.

 

[yiostheoy]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

Obviously you are someone who knows nothing about the game of football. I don't know why you haters insist on posting on these threads because it's pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Simple -- Brady sucks -- that's why.

 

[ChrisL]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

Obviously you are someone who knows nothing about the game of football. I don't know why you haters insist on posting on these threads because it's pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Simple -- Brady sucks -- that's why.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[gipper]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

Obviously you are someone who knows nothing about the game of football. I don't know why you haters insist on posting on these threads because it's pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Simple -- Brady sucks -- that's why.

Brady might be an asshole, but that doesn't mean anything

 

[candycorn]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

I agree.

 

[ChrisL]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

Obviously you are someone who knows nothing about the game of football. I don't know why you haters insist on posting on these threads because it's pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Simple -- Brady sucks -- that's why.

Brady might be an asshole, but that doesn't mean anything

How is he an asshole? He certainly is quiet and doesn't have an ugly big mouth like a lot of other players and teams.

 

[gipper]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

Obviously you are someone who knows nothing about the game of football. I don't know why you haters insist on posting on these threads because it's pretty clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Simple -- Brady sucks -- that's why.

Brady might be an asshole, but that doesn't mean anything

How is he an asshole? He certainly is quiet and doesn't have an ugly big mouth like a lot of other players and teams.

Agreed. I did post 'might be' I don't think he is, but some people do.

He came out early as a Trump supporter, so he deserves kudos for that.

 

[gipper]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

I agree.

Well Candycane you don't know much about politics, history, liberty, government, or the Constitution, but you do know football.

 

[rightwinger]

In both the Super bowls Brady lost to the Giants, he marched his team to go-ahead TDs with under two minutes left. It was the Patriots Defense that lost the games
Even in the win against Seattle, Brady marched them to a go-ahead score within two minutes and Seattle only got the ball in scoring position with a miraculous catch while the receiver was laying on the ground and the ball bounced off his foot

 

[CrusaderFrank]

With a fully inflated ball, it's Montana; deflated ball, Brady's the best

 

[Alex.]

I used to think Joe Montana was the greatest ever, but I'm wondering if Tom Brady is the best.

What do you think?

After they started cheating? Or before?

And how do you count the Seahawks game when NE was beaten but the Seattle coach choked?

After they started cheating?


That needs to be figured in.... too many incidents of cheating...

 

[candycorn]

There are 3 greatest quarterbacks of all time with 4 Superbowls each Brady, Montana and Bradshaw. If he wins this one, Brady is number one.

Don't people give jim kelly a lot of credit just for making it to 4 superbowls and losing them? OK, now consider if Brady loses that will be 3 times he lost a Superbowl?

So wouldn't you say a QB who made it to 3 superbowls and lost them was pretty damn good? So even if you took away bradys 4 superbowl wins you would admit he's pretty damn good. How many men have been to 3 superbowls? Not many. He's either going to be 4 wins 3 loses or 5 wins 2 loses. Either way that's a lot more winning than anyone else. I'd rather have bradys career than anyone elses

Brady is going to his seventh Superbowl and has been to eleven AFC Championship games and 33 total playoff games

Quite a career

You’re right. He’s not responsible for it but if he had started his career in 1980 instead of 2000, he’d be facing the following:

Defensive backs who could get away with MUCH more in terms of coverage, stick-um, and defensive units that had much more freedom to decapitate the QB. Consider this. In 1980, the total number of passes was 13,705. And there was 627 interceptions.
In 2016, there was nearly 5,000 more pass attempts made by NFL quarterbacks but over 200 fewer interceptions.
Some of this increase in passing is due to expansion and new/replacement teams in Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston and Cleveland but it would stand to reason that the dilution of QBs (it being a far more complex position) would lead to more interceptions, not fewer. Also, it would stand to reason that the field being the same size, the athletes being bagger, stronger, and faster would mean more interceptions etc…

Year PA INT
2016 18298 415
2006 16389 520
1996 15966 542
1986 14469 581
1980 13705 627

Put another way, In 1980, when Joe Montana started making his name…there were 28 teams. The Raiders had 35 interceptions as a team. The Saints had the fewest with 12. In the pass happy 2016 season with about 5,000 more passes, the KC Chiefs lead the league with 18 INTs…6 teams had 10 or fewer grabs.

Clearly, the league favors passers more now than ever before; or at least in recent history.

Brady has been assisted by the expansion more than most as well. Three of the new franchises that found their way into the league are AFC teams, Houston, Cleveland and Jacksonville.

Houston is a -28 on 106 wins and 134 losses
Cleveland (who has NEVER won more than 10 games since reinstatement) is apparently -200 with 88 wins and 200 losses
Jacksonville are a -42: 155-197-0

You think Brady/NE has done well against these guys? You’re right 7 and 0 against the Jags, 6 and 1 against the Texans and 7 and 2 against the Browns (since 1999). Of course, expansion has a tendency to lower the barriers for entry. One could argue that he, a 6th round choice, benefitted from it as well. If the Jags, Panthers, and Browns not been there, 18 more players would have been on the board when Brady was selected…who is to say whether the Patriots had one of them ahead. Further…the AFC east competition for the Patriots has not exactly been a model of consistency. Miami has had 8 coaches since 2000, so has Buffalo. The Gents have had 5. Presumably, that is 21 different playbook, 21 different philosophies, lord knows how many different GMs, PPDs, and coordinators.

Again, let me stress, none of this is something that benefits Brady directly. It’s simply the environment he has prospered in and every other QB had essentially the same opportunity. Brady is great but it is hard to find another QB that has benefitted as much from the environment as TB—or one that has mercilessly dispatched his foes.

 

[rightwinger]

There are 3 greatest quarterbacks of all time with 4 Superbowls each Brady, Montana and Bradshaw. If he wins this one, Brady is number one.

Don't people give jim kelly a lot of credit just for making it to 4 superbowls and losing them? OK, now consider if Brady loses that will be 3 times he lost a Superbowl?

So wouldn't you say a QB who made it to 3 superbowls and lost them was pretty damn good? So even if you took away bradys 4 superbowl wins you would admit he's pretty damn good. How many men have been to 3 superbowls? Not many. He's either going to be 4 wins 3 loses or 5 wins 2 loses. Either way that's a lot more winning than anyone else. I'd rather have bradys career than anyone elses

Brady is going to his seventh Superbowl and has been to eleven AFC Championship games and 33 total playoff games

Quite a career

You’re right. He’s not responsible for it but if he had started his career in 1980 instead of 2000, he’d be facing the following:

Defensive backs who could get away with MUCH more in terms of coverage, stick-um, and defensive units that had much more freedom to decapitate the QB. Consider this. In 1980, the total number of passes was 13,705. And there was 627 interceptions.
In 2016, there was nearly 5,000 more pass attempts made by NFL quarterbacks but over 200 fewer interceptions.
Some of this increase in passing is due to expansion and new/replacement teams in Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston and Cleveland but it would stand to reason that the dilution of QBs (it being a far more complex position) would lead to more interceptions, not fewer. Also, it would stand to reason that the field being the same size, the athletes being bagger, stronger, and faster would mean more interceptions etc…

Year PA INT
2016 18298 415
2006 16389 520
1996 15966 542
1986 14469 581
1980 13705 627

Put another way, In 1980, when Joe Montana started making his name…there were 28 teams. The Raiders had 35 interceptions as a team. The Saints had the fewest with 12. In the pass happy 2016 season with about 5,000 more passes, the KC Chiefs lead the league with 18 INTs…6 teams had 10 or fewer grabs.

Clearly, the league favors passers more now than ever before; or at least in recent history.

Brady has been assisted by the expansion more than most as well. Three of the new franchises that found their way into the league are AFC teams, Houston, Cleveland and Jacksonville.

Houston is a -28 on 106 wins and 134 losses
Cleveland (who has NEVER won more than 10 games since reinstatement) is apparently -200 with 88 wins and 200 losses
Jacksonville are a -42: 155-197-0

You think Brady/NE has done well against these guys? You’re right 7 and 0 against the Jags, 6 and 1 against the Texans and 7 and 2 against the Browns (since 1999). Of course, expansion has a tendency to lower the barriers for entry. One could argue that he, a 6th round choice, benefitted from it as well. If the Jags, Panthers, and Browns not been there, 18 more players would have been on the board when Brady was selected…who is to say whether the Patriots had one of them ahead. Further…the AFC east competition for the Patriots has not exactly been a model of consistency. Miami has had 8 coaches since 2000, so has Buffalo. The Gents have had 5. Presumably, that is 21 different playbook, 21 different philosophies, lord knows how many different GMs, PPDs, and coordinators.

Again, let me stress, none of this is something that benefits Brady directly. It’s simply the environment he has prospered in and every other QB had essentially the same opportunity. Brady is great but it is hard to find another QB that has benefitted as much from the environment as TB—or one that has mercilessly dispatched his foes.

I try to avoid comparing statistics between era's. The game has changed significantly

I don't see any benefit from expansion. You still have to finish at the top of the heap....which Brady has done repeatedly
Montana had to beat 27 other teams, Brady had to beat 31 other teams (Vince Lombardi's Packers only had to beat 13 other teams)

So if you can't really compare statistics you have to look at:
Did they win championships?
Did they come up big in the clutch?

Both Brady and Montana did both. I give Brady a slight edge now, and hands down if he beats the Falcons