Is there a libertarian approach to poverty that *doesn't* come down to "just stop being poor"?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. We endorse any voluntary campaign to alleviate suffering.

cool, so then if libertarians agreed that socialism alleviated suffering, libertarians would be socialists??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. There is no single "libertarian approach" to dealing with poverty. We endorse any voluntary campaign to alleviate suffering.

so should we listen to d black or CATO??
This was once a country in which Alexis de Tocqueville marveled at the spirit with which voluntary associations emerged to solve problems. A libertarian approach to poverty would seek to rekindle that spirit, rather than expand a government that sucks the oxygen out of families, private charities, and the very poor that it purports to help.Libertarianism and Poverty

 

[dblack]

. We endorse any voluntary campaign to alleviate suffering.

cool, so then if libertarians agreed that socialism alleviated suffering, libertarians would be socialists??

Ed. Please move to China. They love you there.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. We endorse any voluntary campaign to alleviate suffering.

cool, so then if libertarians agreed that socialism alleviated suffering, libertarians would be socialists??

Ed. Please move to China. They love you there.

translation: I lack the IQ for a substantive response so I"ll behave like a child

 

[ChrisL]

To answer the OP question, no. Conservatives and libertarians are under the mistaken impression that America is about corporations and not the people.

 

[Andylusion]

To answer the OP question, no. Conservatives and libertarians are under the mistaken impression that America is about corporations and not the people.

Really? Hey, can I make up complete crap that you have never said, and claim you support it?

Left-winger, Democrats, and Progressive, want to place bans on corporations, eliminate millions of jobs, and have everyone revert back to meager lives on communal farms.

Hey if you can make up crap, then everyone else can to, and we'll never debate anything, we'll just have a never-ending flame war. After all, you have set an example for us to follow ChrisL.

What is even more ironic, is that while I have never heard a Conservative or Libertarian say anything at all similar to your claim, I actually have had people support what I said. I had a guy say we've existed for thousands of years without corporations, and we can do it again. Destroy the entire economy, and live on farms.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Conservatives and libertarians are under the mistaken impression that America is about corporations and not the people.

what does that mean anyway given that corporations are groups of people who give us our jobs and the products that got us from the stone to here??

 

[ChrisL]

To answer the OP question, no. Conservatives and libertarians are under the mistaken impression that America is about corporations and not the people.

Really? Hey, can I make up complete crap that you have never said, and claim you support it?

Left-winger, Democrats, and Progressive, want to place bans on corporations, eliminate millions of jobs, and have everyone revert back to meager lives on communal farms.

Hey if you can make up crap, then everyone else can to, and we'll never debate anything, we'll just have a never-ending flame war. After all, you have set an example for us to follow ChrisL.

What is even more ironic, is that while I have never heard a Conservative or Libertarian say anything at all similar to your claim, I actually have had people support what I said. I had a guy say we've existed for thousands of years without corporations, and we can do it again. Destroy the entire economy, and live on farms.

Calm yourself. In my opinion, Conservatives and libertarians are for corpotacracy. I have heard them espouse such views many, many times. They are against minimum wage, they are for corporate tax breaks, they are against social safety nets for the people but not for corporations. See TARP.

 

[danielpalos]

. We endorse any voluntary campaign to alleviate suffering.

cool, so then if libertarians agreed that socialism alleviated suffering, libertarians would be socialists??

Ed. Please move to China. They love you there.

translation: I lack the IQ for a substantive response so I"ll behave like a child

yes, dear; why not be more adult in adult conversations.

 

[Fishlore]

Here in the USA, the term "libertarian" is used to describe policies which are, in fact, reactionary anarchism. The doctrine that government is bad because it is big, so we need to go back to the days when government was small is not only silly, it has almost nothing to do with liberty.

Absence of government restraint is the simplest, least effective sort of liberty. A castaway, starving to death on a remote desert island and suffering from a violent tooth ache is certainly free of government restraint but few would envy him his liberty.

Liberty has a positive as well as a negative side. Simply being out of jail doesn't make a person free. Human freedom requires fulfillment of basic human needs and desires. We are social animals. As Spinosa pointed out, people are more free in society than in isolation.

Outside of the USA, libertarians have much more to off than just "gummint bad!"

 

[dblack]

Here in the USA, the term "libertarian" is used to describe policies which are, in fact, reactionary anarchism.

Here in the USA, the term "libertarian" is used to describe all kinds of ridiculous nonsense - as are terms like "liberal", "conservative", "progressive", etc... But equivocating on terminology isn't really much of an argument.

It must be fun though. Lots of people do it.

 

[jillian]

I've dealt with these arguments no less than four times today. Every time it was with a libertarian. Every time their main points were that we need to abolish the minimum wage and child labor laws, that being poor and being unemployed are synonymous, and that we can therefore fight poverty by employing as many people as possible at $4.50/hour. In other words, if you're poor then it's because you're unemployed, you're unemployed because you're too lazy to look for work, and if you didn't enjoy being poor and eating steak and lobster on your annual Caribbean cruise on our dime then you would go get a job and earn your own money.

the so-called libertarians are randian ijits

funny thing is they're not even libertarian since they think that gubmint should stay out of our business except to legislate fundamentalist christianity.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

[

the so-called libertarians are randian ijits

.

total ignorant liberal illiterate! Our Founders were libertarians based on a tradition that began with Aristotle!! A liberal illiterate would have no idea whatsoever!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Here in the USA, the term "libertarian" is used to describe all kinds of ridiculous nonsense - .

and most of the ridiculous nonsense comes from dumbblack who says socialists can be libertarians!! Stupid always claims to be the quintessential libertarian but never gets around to substance because he falls flat when he tries.

 

[dblack]

Here in the USA, the term "libertarian" is used to describe all kinds of ridiculous nonsense - .

and most of the ridiculous nonsense comes from dumbblack who says socialists can be libertarians!! Stupid always claims to be the quintessential libertarian but never gets around to substance because he falls flat when he tries.

Ed. Please don't pretend to know, or understand, what I say. You do not.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

when government was small is not only silly, it has almost nothing to do with liberty.

1000000% stupid of course since our nation is based on liberty from govt. Most of the Constitution is written to protect our liberty from govt. Did the utter fool dummy liberal think our libertarian Founders gave us freedom of speech because the Girl Scouts threatened to take it away!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Here in the USA, the term "libertarian" is used to describe all kinds of ridiculous nonsense - .

and most of the ridiculous nonsense comes from dumbblack who says socialists can be libertarians!! Stupid always claims to be the quintessential libertarian but never gets around to substance because he falls flat when he tries.

Ed. Please don't pretend to know, or understand, what I say. You do not.

145th post without substance!!

 

[Andylusion]

To answer the OP question, no. Conservatives and libertarians are under the mistaken impression that America is about corporations and not the people.

Really? Hey, can I make up complete crap that you have never said, and claim you support it?

Left-winger, Democrats, and Progressive, want to place bans on corporations, eliminate millions of jobs, and have everyone revert back to meager lives on communal farms.

Hey if you can make up crap, then everyone else can to, and we'll never debate anything, we'll just have a never-ending flame war. After all, you have set an example for us to follow ChrisL.

What is even more ironic, is that while I have never heard a Conservative or Libertarian say anything at all similar to your claim, I actually have had people support what I said. I had a guy say we've existed for thousands of years without corporations, and we can do it again. Destroy the entire economy, and live on farms.

Calm yourself. In my opinion, Conservatives and libertarians are for corpotacracy. I have heard them espouse such views many, many times. They are against minimum wage, they are for corporate tax breaks, they are against social safety nets for the people but not for corporations. See TARP.

Oh... so it's your "opinion". You realize if you had at least been that honest in the first post, I would not have been as harsh.

Nevertheless, I still have never seen a single example of any conservative or libertarian who supported corpotacracy. Never once.

They say they support different policies, but is that the same as supporting corpotacracy? No it is not. You just have your "opinion".

Ok, here's my opinion.....

The left-wing, democrats and progressive support minimum wage which as we've seen in Greece drives people out of work. As Greece's minimum wage went up year over year, employment went down, leaving people impoverished and unemployed. It wasn't until Greece CUT their minimum wage, that employment started to go up again.

And they also support higher corporate taxes, which drive investment overseas, leading to fewer jobs here in America. Corporations and executives themselves have stated that one of the primary reasons they invest outside the US, and do not bring investment back to America, is specifically because of the corporate tax rates. Thus fewer jobs are created, and more people are unemployed.

So it is my opinion that left-wingers, democrats and progressives support impoverishment and unemployment.

The difference between your opinion, and my opinion, is I actually have a facts supporting mine.

You doubt that? You brought up TARP. Let's look at it.....

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml

I'm sorry... who voted overwhelmingly in favor of TARP?

House Conservatives Introduce ‘Free Market’ Substitute for Bailout

“We believe that we can help Wall Street work out of this crisis, not force the taxpayers into a bailout,” said the RSC. “We believe that voluntary private capital, not involuntary taxpayer capital, will help the system recover.”

“House conservatives believe that any model that essentially has taxpayers bailing out Wall Street is fundamentally flawed,” said Hensarling at the press conference.​

I'm sorry... who came up with an alternative plan that didn't include government funds to banks?

Libertarians challenge 89 TARP-supporting incumbents in Congress

This November, Libertarian Party candidates are challenging 89 incumbent members of Congress who voted for the TARP bailouts in 2008. View the list here.
The list includes 27 Republicans and 62 Democrats.
​

I'm sorry.... which political group set out to challenge.... SPECIFICALLY, those people who supporting using tax payer money to bailout banks?

Democrats? No. Progressives? No. A left-wing group? No.

It was conservatives and libertarians that voted against TARP in congress. It was conservatives libertarians that proposed an alternative to TARP. It was conservative libertarians that challenged the supporters of TARP.

Not you people. You people talk a ton, and do the exact opposite, and then attack those who actually did something. We are the ones who stand for the public. Not you. Not ever.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

so we need to go back to the days when government was small is not only silly, it has almost nothing to do with liberty.

-
Welcome to your first lesson in American history!!

Thomas Jefferson:
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground".

Please notice that liberty and govt are seen as opposites.

 

[Fishlore]

so we need to go back to the days when government was small is not only silly, it has almost nothing to do with liberty.

-
Welcome to your first lesson in American history!!

Thomas Jefferson:
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground".

Please notice that liberty and govt are seen as opposites.

Your presumptive arrogance is pretending to teach me American history is pathetic. History is not written by quoting out-of-context aphorisms. Methinks you have had very few quality courses in history. Your naive assumption that Jefferson or les philosophes who dazzled his provincial English mind believed that government and liberty were opposites show that you haven't read much of Jefferson's works and have an uninformed grasp of the Enlightenment.

The leap from Jefferson's abhorrence of tyranny to the assumption that his preference was for anarchy is ridiculous. He fucked his female slaves, after all.