Is there a legit legal argument here?

[Harpy Eagle]

Why not?

It is called "personal responsibility"

How can one responsibility for a decision that they had zero say in the matter?

Did the woman rape them? Did the woman make them have sex? I do not think so.

That doesn’t change that fact that men are still held responsible without any say in the matter.

What if the women requested to go raw dog, or lied about being on BC? This hypos can go on all day, the issue at hand is still one party holds the sole decision making ability, and the other is held responsible for it.

Bottom line, if you helped make the baby, you help pay for the baby. Any man that cannot do that much is not much of a man, they are just the scum found on the bottom of an old pond.

 

[martybegan]

It is called "personal responsibility"

So only men are required to have said responsibility?

how do you figure? Who do you think is raising the child while the man just sends cash?

If a woman doesn't want the kid, she has an "out". Men don't have that "out"

We are talking legally here, not biologically.

Please note that this is a theoretical discussion.

Yes it theoretical, I thought that was obvious. Though it’s more ethical than legal, although if someone chose to pursue this legally and somehow won...that would have some pretty big consequences.

Ethically, the man should help pay to raise their child. I cannot think of many things lower than a man that lacks that basic morals to do that.

I agree 100%, however the fact is that makes us hold men to a higher standard than women, and if one wants true equality then that is an issue.

 

[sakinago]

It is called "personal responsibility"

So only men are required to have said responsibility?

how do you figure? Who do you think is raising the child while the man just sends cash?

If a woman doesn't want the kid, she has an "out". Men don't have that "out"

We are talking legally here, not biologically.

Please note that this is a theoretical discussion.

Yes it theoretical, I thought that was obvious. Though it’s more ethical than legal, although if someone chose to pursue this legally and somehow won...that would have some pretty big consequences.

Ethically, the man should help pay to raise their child. I cannot think of many things lower than a man that lacks that basic morals to do that.

Nope, if there’s no ethical issue in a women getting an abortion, then there’s no ethical argument with a man not wanting to be responsible for a kid for the exact same reasons a women would want to get an abortion.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So only men are required to have said responsibility?

how do you figure? Who do you think is raising the child while the man just sends cash?

If a woman doesn't want the kid, she has an "out". Men don't have that "out"

We are talking legally here, not biologically.

Please note that this is a theoretical discussion.

Yes it theoretical, I thought that was obvious. Though it’s more ethical than legal, although if someone chose to pursue this legally and somehow won...that would have some pretty big consequences.

Ethically, the man should help pay to raise their child. I cannot think of many things lower than a man that lacks that basic morals to do that.

Nope, if there’s no ethical issue in a women getting an abortion, then there’s no ethical argument with a man not wanting to be responsible for a kid for the exact same reasons a women would want to get an abortion.

I guess that is why I am against abortion also

 

[hadit]

The bottom line is this:. Biology wins. We can complain and strain all day long that men and women are completely equal in every way, but biology wins. We can say that a woman who says she's a man can compete in male sports, but biology wins. We can say that a man who says he's a woman can use a bathroom with little girls, but biology wins.

No, it's not equal.

 

[Crepitus]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

 

[martybegan]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Why can't we say to a woman "be a woman and live up to your responsibility"?

 

[Crepitus]

Why not?

It is called "personal responsibility"

So only men are required to have said responsibility?

how do you figure? Who do you think is raising the child while the man just sends cash?

I'm raising my children and I get child support from the mom. Well, ok the alimony is reduced by the amount of the child support so I still pay her but.....

 

[martybegan]

The bottom line is this:. Biology wins. We can complain and strain all day long that men and women are completely equal in every way, but biology wins. We can say that a woman who says she's a man can compete in male sports, but biology wins. We can say that a man who says he's a woman can use a bathroom with little girls, by biology wins.

No, it's not equal.

But in this case there is a biological out for the woman, and thus a legal out for her, but no legal out for the man.

Practicality would demand the man make his intentions known, say be week 10 or so, so the woman can decide to abort if the man wants nothing to do with the kid.

 

[Crepitus]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Why can't we say to a woman "be a woman and live up to your responsibility"?

That's what she did when she refused the abortion.

 

[Claudette]

Is there an argument to be made for a man to not have to pay child support, if he can prove he encouraged the mother to get an abortion, and she went against his wishes?

No.

 

[martybegan]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Why can't we say to a woman "be a woman and live up to your responsibility"?

That's what she did when she refused the abortion.

and that is her choice. why can't men have a choice as well?

If both are truly equal, why does one have an "out", and the other does not?

 

[hadit]

The bottom line is this:. Biology wins. We can complain and strain all day long that men and women are completely equal in every way, but biology wins. We can say that a woman who says she's a man can compete in male sports, but biology wins. We can say that a man who says he's a woman can use a bathroom with little girls, by biology wins.

No, it's not equal.

But in this case there is a biological out for the woman, and thus a legal out for her, but no legal out for the man.

Practicality would demand the man make his intentions known, say be week 10 or so, so the woman can decide to abort if the man wants nothing to do with the kid.

The law certainly does give the woman control over the man's reproductive freedom because she can legally prevent him from becoming a father or force him to become a father, that much is true.

It is not equal, and can't be.

 

[easyt65]

Is there an argument to be made for a man to not have to pay child support, if he can prove he encouraged the mother to get an abortion, and she went against his wishes?

No.

 

[sakinago]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Love how people actually think that I knocked someone up and am coming to USMB to try to get out of it.

If the sexes are truly equal, and there is no ethical issues in getting an abortion...then a man should have the same opportunity to opt out of responsibility for the very same reasons a women would choose to get a perfectly ethical abortion. It’s the same decision being made, but just because one has a dong, he all of a sudden turns into a monster...even though he could easily cite the exact same reasons to not take responsibility as a women wanting to get an abortion. So either abortion is unethical, the sexes are not equal legally or ethically speaking...or a man shouldn’t have to be forced to pay child support unless he didn’t want the woman to abort.

 

[Crepitus]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Why can't we say to a woman "be a woman and live up to your responsibility"?

That's what she did when she refused the abortion.

and that is her choice. why can't men have a choice as well?

If both are truly equal, why does one have an "out", and the other does not?

And here I thought you were anti-choice.

 

[martybegan]

The bottom line is this:. Biology wins. We can complain and strain all day long that men and women are completely equal in every way, but biology wins. We can say that a woman who says she's a man can compete in male sports, but biology wins. We can say that a man who says he's a woman can use a bathroom with little girls, by biology wins.

No, it's not equal.

But in this case there is a biological out for the woman, and thus a legal out for her, but no legal out for the man.

Practicality would demand the man make his intentions known, say be week 10 or so, so the woman can decide to abort if the man wants nothing to do with the kid.

The law certainly does give the woman control over the man's reproductive freedom because she can legally prevent him from becoming a father or force him to become a father, that much is true.

It is not equal, and can't be.

If one looks at it purely legally and theoretically yes.

Of course theory and practicality are two different things.

 

[Crepitus]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Love how people actually think that I knocked someone up and am coming to USMB to try to get out of it.

If the sexes are truly equal, and there is no ethical issues in getting an abortion...then a man should have the same opportunity to opt out of responsibility for the very same reasons a women would choose to get a perfectly ethical abortion. It’s the same decision being made, but just because one has a dong, he all of a sudden turns into a monster...even though he could easily cite the exact same reasons to not take responsibility as a women wanting to get an abortion. So either abortion is unethical, the sexes are not equal legally or ethically speaking...or a man shouldn’t have to be forced to pay child support unless he didn’t want the woman to abort.

Sorry kid, in this one case the woman has the upper hand. If you can't make child support payments keep it in your pants.

 

[martybegan]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Why can't we say to a woman "be a woman and live up to your responsibility"?

That's what she did when she refused the abortion.

and that is her choice. why can't men have a choice as well?

If both are truly equal, why does one have an "out", and the other does not?

And here I thought you were anti-choice.

I'm anti-Roe. To me abortion for medical reasons is a no brainer. In cases of rape its also a no brainer.

However birth control abortions suck, considering the availability of actual birth control.

My issue is Roe is terrible case law, based on nothing but the hopes and dreams of a progressive court. As I live in NY abortions will be protected, and I have no issue with it.

I also have no issue with Alabama banning it.

To me this thread's argument is about the inherent inequality of women having a legal out from parenthood that men do not have.

true equality would require either both having it, or neither having it.

 

[sakinago]

Why not?

You did the deed, now pay for your fun. Be a man, live up to your responsibility.

Love how people actually think that I knocked someone up and am coming to USMB to try to get out of it.

If the sexes are truly equal, and there is no ethical issues in getting an abortion...then a man should have the same opportunity to opt out of responsibility for the very same reasons a women would choose to get a perfectly ethical abortion. It’s the same decision being made, but just because one has a dong, he all of a sudden turns into a monster...even though he could easily cite the exact same reasons to not take responsibility as a women wanting to get an abortion. So either abortion is unethical, the sexes are not equal legally or ethically speaking...or a man shouldn’t have to be forced to pay child support unless he didn’t want the woman to abort.

Sorry kid, in this one case the woman has the upper hand. If you can't make child support payments keep it in your pants.

So the sexes are not equal and men can and should be considered victims for not having the same reproductive rights as women.