Zone1 is the Vatican in the bible?

[Clyde 154]

Genesis 16:3, "3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife." Is that big enough for you to SEE? When Abram did this, they became on flesh also. Not one person. Sarai and Abram were separate and distinct personages. So, were Hagar and Abraham. But, they were one flesh or one in purpose to each other. The key here is there is no adultery. Abram was blessed and his name changed to Abraham. Through Abraham would Israel come to be. One of the sons of Israel was Levi. Moses was a descendant of Levi. Moses wrote the law of Moses many years after Abraham died. Thus, why are you trying to force Abraham to live the law of Moses? I laughed when I saw that error. When it was given that in the last days that it would be the days of the restitution of all things, all things of God that was given to man from Adam to Jesus Christ to Paul and John. One of the "All" things is polygamy that was given to Abraham. And, it was given to Joseph Smith to institute for a time. End of story. You were wrong.

You also assume too much in the words as well. You said that if you have too many wives your heart will be turned away. You assumed that meant from God when it was meant that your heart would turn away from your 1st wife. It's our understanding that the 1st wife, like Saria, makes the decisions of when her husband can sleep with other wives. And, if the 1st wife decides there is a problem with another wife of her husband, that she can demand a divorce as well. Sarah demanded this of Hagar. Hagar and Ismael were sent away. So, if the 1st wife believes that her husband's heart is turned away from her and possibly from the Lord, then she can demand the divorce and separation. End of story about that.

Now, to the binding of the New Testament Covenant. There are those who at the time were not able to enter into a polygamist marriage. Bishops, Elders, Priests and I believe Deacons. They were to have but one wife. However, the New Testament also says that in the last days there will be a restitution of all things. Not just New Testament stuff either. To keep that, the Lord had to reinstitute polygamy to the world. At least for a short time. We are restricted at this time because the Lord allowed the Church to grow and expand when it was necessary for Utah to join the U.S. and be protected from religious bigots like yourself. We are now a worldwide Church. It is you that is stuck on believing that the Bible is the end of New Covenants and hearing directly from God through apostles and prophets. That's your problem, not ours. We have temple covenants that you do not have that can lead to living in the highest degree of glory in the 3rd Heaven that Paul saw. The Celestial Law of Eternal Marriage and Increase in Joy. We don't live by man's degrees of law. We have a prophet that is told by God what our laws in TODAY'S world will be. Sorry you have to live only in the past. Like the Jews did when they had a higher law given to them by Jesus and they rejected that law. You are like the Jews rejecting today's higher law.

Your lies are easily numbered. 1. No where did God declare that Abram, Sarai, and Hagar became ONE FLESH.....your math does not calculate, as Jesus declared that a righteous marriage was between One Man and One Woman and has been since the beginning of time (Again you are attempting to justify your cults obvious history of unrighteousness by presenting a History that is not condoned by the God of Creation. (Matthew 19)

2. Your cult has fallen from grace when you attempt to justify your history of Polygamy by defending it from the Old Law and the prophets. (Gal. 5:4))


3. Since when did one of the concubines of Abraham qualify as God in determining sin, God had a plan for Sarai to conceive, not Hagar, Sarai begin to doubt the word of the Lord because she thought she was to old to give Abram a child. 4.Show me the passage that declares there was no adultery taking place when Abraham made Hagar an adulterous fornicator? Show me where God condoned and declared this act of polygamy righteous. You can not because there is no such passage of scripture. FYI: there is no passage that declares Abraham, Sarai, and Hagar become one flesh simply because Abraham took another woman for fornication and child birth.

Fact: Sarai, Abraham's actual WIFE knew that what she had allowed was unrighteous. "And Sarai said unto Abraham, "MY WRONG BE UPON THEE.........I have given (Sarai, not God) MY MAID unto thy bosom.............THE LORD JUDGE BETWEEN ME AND THEE.

In fact: God appeared to Abram once again concerning His promise to Abram......the Lord God informed Abram that the promise to become the father of many nations would come through Abram's actual wife Sarai........not through Abraham's copulation with Hagar. (Gen. 17:16-19, 18:10).

And to claim that God renamed Abram to Abraham because of his fornication with Sarai's handmaid.....it is simply an outright misrepresentation of the Holy Scriptures.
The Covenant between God and Abram is not recorded until after Abram fornicated with Hagar. The conditions of that Covenant between Abram and the God of creation? Abram was from that time forward to "......Serve Me (God) faithfully and live a blameless life and I (God) will make a covenant (contract) with you by which I will guarantee to give you countless descendants..............God promised to make Abram the father of a multitude of nations.....and renamed Abram, Abraham because you will be the father of many nations. Of course it was not Abraham's concubine Hagar that God blessed and made the mother of many nation....with Kings among those nations.......God looked upon Sarai with favor and allowed her to become with child at the age of 90. God changed Sarai's name to Sarah.

FYI: The illegitimate son of Abram and Hagar.....Ishmael was banished to the desert after the birth of Issac. In fact an "angel of the Lord" declared to Hagar, "This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed wild donkey (jackass)...........(Genesis 16:12) God would later have favor upon Ishmael because he was the son of Abraham....the angel of the Lord reappeared to Hagar and stated that she need not worry, Ishmael would survive and even prosper. (Gen. 21:12-13) Ishmael lived to the age of 137 (Gen. 25:17), and actually attended the funeral of his estranged father Abraham (Gen. 25:9)

The real reason that Sarai decided to allow Hagar to be Abrams concubine? God had promised Abram that he would have a son and his descendants would become like the stars in the sky (uncountable) -- Genesis 15:4. It was Sarai that attempted to interfere with God's plan because she assumed that she was to old to conceive ............this was not God's plan............nor did God condone the arrangement...as declared by the angel of the Lord (Gen. 16:12)

 

[Cougarbear]

Your lies are easily numbered. 1. No where did God declare that Abram, Sarai, and Hagar become ONE FLESH.....your math does not calculate, as Jesus declared that a righteous marriage was between One Man and One Woman and has been since the beginning of time (Again you are attempting to justify your cults obvious history of unrighteousness by presenting a History that is not condoned by the God of Creation. (Matthew 19)

2. Your cult has fallen from grace when you attempt to justify your history of Polygamy by defending it from the Old Law and the prophets. (Gal. 5:4))


3. Since when did one of the concubines of Abraham qualify as God in determining sin, God had a plan for Sarai to conceive, not Hagar, Sarai begin to doubt the word of the Lord because she thought she was to old to give Abram a child. 4.Show me the passage that declares there was no adultery taking place when Abraham made Hagar an adulterous fornicator? Show me where God condoned and declared this act of polygamy righteous. You can not because there is no such passage of scripture. FYI: there is no passage that declares Abraham, Sarai, and Hagar become one flesh simply because Abraham took another woman for fornication and child birth.

Fact: Sarai, Abraham's actual WIFE knew that what she had allowed was unrighteous. "And Sarai said unto Abraham, "MY WRONG BE UPON THEE.........I have given (Sarai, not God) MY MAID unto thy bosom.............THE LORD JUDGE BETWEEN ME AND THEE.

In fact: God appeared to Abram once again concerning His promise to Abram......the Lord God informed Abram that the promise to become the father of many nations would come through Abram's actual wife Sarai........not through Abraham's copulation with Hagar. (Gen. 17:16-19, 18:10).

And to claim that God renamed Abram to Abraham because of his fornication with Sarai's handmaid.....it is simply an outright misrepresentation of the Holy Scriptures.
The Covenant between God and Abram is not recorded until after Abram fornicated with Hagar. The conditions of that Covenant between Abram and the God of creation? Abram was from that time forward to "......Serve Me (God) faithfully and live a blameless life and I (God) will make a covenant (contract) with you by which I will guarantee to give you countless descendants..............God promised to make Abram the father of a multitude of nations.....and rename Abram, Abraham because you will the father of many nations. Of course it was not Abraham's concubine that God blessed and made the mother of many nation....with Kings among those nations.......God looked upon Sarai with favor and allowed her to become with child at the age of 90. God changed Sarai's name to Sarah.

FYI: The illegitimate son of Abram and Hagar.....Ishmael was banished to the desert after the birth of Issac. In fact an "angel of the Lord" declared to Hagar, "This son of yours will be a wild man, as untamed wild donkey (jackass)...........(Genesis 16:12)

The real reason that Sarai decided to allow Hagar to be Abrams concubine? God had promised Abram that he would have a son and his descendants would become like the stars in the sky (uncountable) -- Genesis 15:4. It was Sarai that attempted to interfere with God's plan because she assumed that she was to old to conceive ............this was not God's plan............nor did God condone the arrangement...as declared by the angel of the Lord (Gen. 16:12)

You do know that Moses Wife was through Ishmael? Jethro was of Ishmael. Oops! You lose that argument that the many nations included Ishmael. Ishmael wasn’t banished because of an illegitimate son. He was banished for fighting with Isaac and not excepting Isaac. Hagar as well was jealous. And, God did not punish Sarah. In fact, for being faithful, she was blessed with Isaac. So, there goes all that out the window. You aren’t doing very well. God did bless Abraham for being obedient and taking on wives. Hagar wasn’t the only one. You are so ignorant.

 

[Clyde 154]

You do know that Moses Wife was through Ishmael? Jethro was of Ishmael. Oops! You lose that argument that the many nations included Ishmael. Ishmael wasn’t banished because of an illegitimate son. He was banished for fighting with Isaac and not excepting Isaac. Hagar as well was jealous. And, God did not punish Sarah. In fact, for being faithful, she was blessed with Isaac. So, there goes all that out the window. You aren’t doing very well. God did bless Abraham for being obedient and taking on wives. Hagar wasn’t the only one. You are so ignorant.

And? This changes the actual content of the Holy Scriptures and the truth they represent? Polygamy was never condoned by the God of creation....such actions are due to the unrighteous decisions of mankind. Again you were asked to preform a simple act: Show me the book, chapter and verse where God commanded any of the men and women from the Old Testament to take more than "1" wife or "1" husband.

Yeah.......its me that AIN'T DOING very well. Each and every time you present one lie......you must make up another. You can attempt to justify your cults unrighteous history of lies, fornication, adultery, polygamy, plagiarism and paganist doctrine that claims men can become gods..............by pointing to the Old Scriptures, but there is no ambiguity when the Apostle states that you have fallen from grace when you attempt to justify your doctrine from the Law and Prophets (Gal. 5:4)

 

[Cougarbear]

And? This changes the actual content of the Holy Scriptures and the truth they represent? Polygamy was never condoned by the God of creations....such actions are due to the unrighteous decisions of mankind.

Sure it was condoned and instituted by God. Your Church doesn’t have the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Starting with Apostles and Prophets to receive and straighten out misconceptions of the Gospel. The stick of Joseph did this and one with the Bible we know the truth. Until you ask God with real intent and your faith not wavering and without a double mind that the Book of Mormon is true, and receive the influence of the Holy Ghost to know it is true, you will be floundering about lacking understanding of the Bible.

 

[Clyde 154]

Sure it was condoned and instituted by God. Your Church doesn’t have the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Starting with Apostles and Prophets to receive and straighten out misconceptions of the Gospel. The stick of Joseph did this and one with the Bible we know the truth. Until you ask God with real intent and your faith not wavering and without a double mind that the Book of Mormon is true, and receive the influence of the Holy Ghost to know it is true, you will be floundering about lacking understanding of the Bible.

If the practice of Polygamy was instituted by the God of Creation. Enlighten us, show us the Book, Chapter and Verse where God instituted multiple marriages/polygamy. It does not exist. There is a passage that proclaims that God does not condone the practice of polygamy by those who turn away from God, but......because this practice came from the hard heart of men.......God chose to regulate the practice in order to make sure (just as Jesus stated in relation to marriage/divorce, Moses allowed this practice due to the hardened heart of the men, thus he attempted to regulate the practice (Matthew 19:8).........God chose to regulate practice of multiple marriages in order that the Bastard Children produced from these marriages received fair treatment from the estate of the father. (Deut 17). God has a history of regulating things that were instituted by men that He might consider unrighteous.........slavery for example, multiple marriages are the same. These practices existed because of men......tradition, not from any authority granted by God.

Question? If the latter day saints.........condoned multiple wives.........why couldn't Mormon women have more than 1 husband? Is there a history of any female having multiple husbands in the cult of Mormonism? If not........why not?

To prove Mormonism is a Lawless Cult........consider how you have attempted to defend your history of breaking the government's law of having only 1 spouse. What do the scriptures declare about obeying the civil authorities? "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God; Therefore whosoever resists the authorities.......RESISTS WHAT GOD HAS APPOINTED......." Romans 13:1-8 When did the supposed church of supposed latter day saints end the practice of polygamy? Mormonism practiced polygamy against the civil authority for over 1/2 century from 1852-1900.

From the Old Testament.....THE LAW, "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself; that his heart not turn away......" -- Deut. 17:17 When you have more than 1 spouse your heart turns away from your legal and righteous spouse....just as exampled in the history of the Old Testament.

More Old Testament.........Law and the Prophets, If a man has 2 wives, one shall be beloved and the other hated.........(Deut. 21:15) The example of this is found within the history of Abraham and Sarah in the book of Genesis........Sarah, then Sarai......devised a plan against the will of God to give her hand maid permission to bear a child to Abram, because she thought God was slow in keeping His promise to Abram in making Abram the father of many nations. Thus, the son of Hagar the handmaid was driven into the desert to act just like a wild animal because Sarai hated Hagar for bearing a son to Abram. (Genesis 16-18)

And from the New Testament Covenant........THE COVENANT THAT BINDS YOU IF YOU PROFESS TO BE A CHRISTIAN, which declares that if you attempt to justify your doctrine/faith by the terms of the Old Law, you have committed spiritual adultery and have fallen from the Grace provided by Christ's sacrificial blood (Romans 7, Gal. 5:4)

To hold the office of Bishop........might less the office of an Apostle, ".........must be the husband of ONE WIFE......." -- 1 Tim.3:2 The same for the office of Deacon -- 1 Tim. 3:12
More from the Covenant of Jesus Christ; clear and unambiguous, "..........to AVOID FORNICATION, LET EVERY MAN HAVE HIS OWN WIFE, AND LET EVERY WOMAN HAVE HER OWN HUSBAND." -- 1 Cor. 7:2

Jesus Christ had this to declare, "Whosoever putteth away his wife, divorce.... (singular) and marriages another...........commits adultery" -- Luke 16:18

The apostle repeats the advise spoken by Jesus Christ, "For this cause (marriage) a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined with his wife (singular) and they THE TWO (not the 3, not the 4, not the 700 as was the example of one king -- 1 King 11:3) SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH." -- Eph. 5:31

IN THE BEGINNING OF CREATION GOD HAD THIS TO DECLARE, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, AND SHALL CLEVE UNTO HIS WIFE; AND THEY (the 2) SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

 

[Cougarbear]

If the practice of Polygamy was instituted by the God of Creation. Enlighten us, show us the Book, Chapter and Verse where God instituted multiple marriages/polygamy. It does not exist. There is a passage that proclaims that God does not condone the practice of polygamy by those who turn away from God, but......because this practice came from the hard heart of men.......God chose to regulate the practice in order to make sure (just as Jesus stated in relation to marriage/divorce, Moses allowed this practice due to the hardened heart of the men, thus he attempted to regulate the practice (Matthew 19:8).........God chose to regulate practice of multiple marriages in order that the Bastard Children produced from these marriages received fair treatment from the estate of the father. (Deut 17). God has a history of regulating things that were instituted by men that He might consider unrighteous.........slavery for example, multiple marriages are the same. These practices existed because of men......tradition, not from any authority granted by God.

Question? If the latter day saints.........condoned multiple wives.........why couldn't Mormon women have more than 1 husband? Is there a history of any female having multiple husbands in the cult of Mormonism? If not........why not?

To prove Mormonism is a Lawless Cult........consider how you have attempted to defend your history of breaking the government's law of having only 1 spouse. What do the scriptures declare about obeying the civil authorities? "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God; Therefore whosoever resists the authorities.......RESISTS WHAT GOD HAS APPOINTED......." Romans 13:1-8 When did the supposed church of supposed latter day saints end the practice of polygamy? Mormonism practiced polygamy against the civil authority for over 1/2 century from 1852-1900.

From the Old Testament.....THE LAW, "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself; that his heart not turn away......" -- Deut. 17:17 When you have more than 1 spouse your heart turns away from your legal and righteous spouse....just as exampled in the history of the Old Testament.

More Old Testament.........Law and the Prophets, If a man has 2 wives, one shall be beloved and the other hated.........(Deut. 21:15) The example of this is found within the history of Abraham and Sarah in the book of Genesis........Sarah, then Sarai......devised a plan against the will of God to give her hand maid permission to bear a child to Abram, because she thought God was slow in keeping His promise to Abram in making Abram the father of many nations. Thus, the son of Hagar the handmaid was driven into the desert to act just like a wild animal because Sarai hated Hagar for bearing a son to Abram. (Genesis 16-18)

And from the New Testament Covenant........THE COVENANT THAT BINDS YOU IF YOU PROFESS TO BE A CHRISTIAN, which declares that if you attempt to justify your doctrine/faith by the terms of the Old Law, you have committed spiritual adultery and have fallen from the Grace provided by Christ's sacrificial blood (Romans 7, Gal. 5:4)

To hold the office of Bishop........might less the office of an Apostle, ".........must be the husband of ONE WIFE......." -- 1 Tim.3:2 The same for the office of Deacon -- 1 Tim. 3:12
More from the Covenant of Jesus Christ; clear and unambiguous, "..........to AVOID FORNICATION, LET EVERY MAN HAVE HIS OWN WIFE, AND LET EVERY WOMAN HAVE HER OWN HUSBAND." -- 1 Cor. 7:2

Jesus Christ had this to declare, "Whosoever putteth away his wife, divorce.... (singular) and marriages another...........commits adultery" -- Luke 16:18

The apostle repeats the advise spoken by Jesus Christ, "For this cause (marriage) a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined with his wife (singular) and they THE TWO (not the 3, not the 4, not the 700 as was the example of one king -- 1 King 11:3) SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH." -- Eph. 5:31

IN THE BEGINNING OF CREATION GOD HAD THIS TO DECLARE, "Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, AND SHALL CLEVE UNTO HIS WIFE; AND THEY (the 2) SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.

You said Moses regulated polygamy, something that was given freely to Abraham. You can read. You can see that Abraham married Hagar. He had others as well did many others like David. David had many wives and concubines. But, it wasn't that that sunk him. It was the murder of Bathsheba's husband. Anyway, Moses didn't regulate anything. God told Moses what to do. Moses did what God said to do.

Now, you rant away as usual making little sense. Using scriptures that teach not what you are trying to convey. LIke Jesus declaring whosoever putteth away his wife AND DIVORCES her is adultery. Convenient how you leave that out. Abraham, Moses, Joseph Smith and others did not divorce their wives. That ends that nonsense of yours. Also, I already stated the information about Bishops, Priests....So, why act like you are so smart? Idiot. The guy who thinks the Catholic Church wasn't lead into Apostasy. Just look at Poop Sixtus IV who had anywhere from 30,000 to 300,000 Jews and Muslims slaughtered during the Spanish Inquisition. And, there were other Inquisitions throughout the last 1400 years of the existence of the RCC. Total apostasy! Poops that killed and killed other Poops. I'm speaking of Sergius III who killed the Pope prior to him, but he also killed the pope before that. He then used his power to set up his son, Pope John XI, fathered by his 15 year-old prostitute mistress, to be Pope twenty years after him. Ya, I think the RCC is an abominable Church that aposticized a long time ago.

 

[surada]

is the Vatican in the bible?

Vatican as it is and the future
And their dead bodies will lie in the streets of the great city (Vatican) which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord is being crucified (daily service).
Rev 11:8 (NKJV)

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Phil 3:18 (NKJV)

how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:29 (NKJV)

You have forsaken Me," says the Lord, "You have gone backward. Therefore I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of relenting!
Jer 15:6 (NKJV)

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
For her sins have reached heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:4-5 (NKJV)

we don't hate Catholics but this system keeps Catholics under the law
about Mary
And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom, there shall be no end.
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
For with God, nothing shall be impossible.
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed

Genesis 6: 3
as in Noah, the Lord found grace
God saw grace in Mary she was highly favored
Mary's lineage was from the house of David's bloodline
she was the pure bloodline of Jesus's family

It's about Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified.

 

[surada]

is the Vatican in the bible?

Vatican as it is and the future
And their dead bodies will lie in the streets of the great city (Vatican) which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord is being crucified (daily service).
Rev 11:8 (NKJV)

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Phil 3:18 (NKJV)

how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:29 (NKJV)

You have forsaken Me," says the Lord, "You have gone backward. Therefore I will stretch out My hand against you and destroy you; I am weary of relenting!
Jer 15:6 (NKJV)

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
For her sins have reached heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:4-5 (NKJV)

we don't hate Catholics but this system keeps Catholics under the law
about Mary
And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom, there shall be no end.
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
For with God, nothing shall be impossible.
And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed

Genesis 6: 3
as in Noah, the Lord found grace
God saw grace in Mary she was highly favored
Mary's lineage was from the house of David's bloodline
she was the pure bloodline of Jesus's family

It's about Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified. Rev 11:8

 

[there4eyeM]

It's about Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified. Rev 11:8

Debatable (and infinitely so, as "Revelations" is a total mystery).

 

[surada]

Debatable (and infinitely so, as "Revelations" is a total mystery).

No it's not. It tells you plainly what happened in the first century.

 

[surada]

the future

​

From Paul VI Hall Assembly, Today there is another group of pilgrims linked up with us in the Paul VI Hall; they are pilgrims suffering from illnesses.

Blaspheme the Holy Spirit and His Children
POPE FRANCIS St. Peter's Square
Wednesday, 25 June 2014
With this weather, between the heat and the possibility of rain, it was more prudent that they stay there.
But they are linked with us via maxi screen. And thus we are together at the same audience.
And today let us all pray especially for them, for their illnesses. Thank you.

Note: Pope Francis says we the Body of Christ have an illness because of our Christian belief in having a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit and God

In the first catechesis on the Church, last Wednesday, we began with the initiative of God who wants to form a people to carry his blessing to all the nations of the earth.

He begins with Abraham and then, with great patience — and God has that; he has a great deal of that! — He prepares this people of the Old Covenant so that, in Jesus Christ, he will establish it as the sign and instrument of mankind’s communion with God and unity with one another (cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution Lumen Gentium, n. 1). Today we would like to pause on the importance for a Christian to belong to this people.

We will speak about belonging to the Church. (Meaning The Parish)

The reader and a writer, I am a true Christian, how am I a true Christian? First I read the letter of POPE FRANCIS, in his own words.

By the letter of the law, written law, by scripture, in the language, put forth from time past to the very present time!
I comment on offensive words from VATICAN, Paul VI Hall General Assembly.

1 # We read. You are not isolated, and we meaning you, are not Christians on an individual basis.

Each one on His or Her own, not by any means, by the letter of the language! (Meaning by the letter of language, (VATICAN!) if I say by my own choices I am a true Christian it’s not by yours own to say I am).

VATICAN: Our Christian identity is to belong! We are Christians because we belong to the Church. (The Parish)

(Meaning, to belong solely under the VATICAN Church, one Church under the earth, By the letter of the language! In one way of saying, not above the Heaven)

Revelation 13:6 (And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

VATICAN: It is like a last name: if the first name is “I am Christian”, the last name is “I belong to the Church”.
(Meaning I belong to a Church under the earth, not above)

VATICAN: It is so beautiful to observe how this belonging is also expressed in the name God gives to himself.
(Using the name and deity of God the Father, Abba)

VATICAN: In answer to Moses in that wonderful episode of the “burning bush”, he defines himself as the God of the fathers (cf. Ex 3:15).

(The Word does not just say I AM,” but to His adversary as well)

Exodus 3:15-17 (NKJV) states, Moreover, God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

(I underline the quote they are referring to! But in the same matter, God continues to say,

Has sent me to you.

This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.'

Exodus 3:16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, 'The LORD God of your

Exodus 3:17 fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, "I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt. Remember Egypt pass.

Note; VATICAN: The Parish is Egypt and it has not passed yet. The Vatican is referred as which spiritually as Sodom and Egypt

Revelation 11:8 (And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Cesar Bossier, did you find out why is he?

VATICAN: He doesn’t say: I am the Omnipotent One..., no: I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

My remark to this letter
This phrase: I am not! To density that is only the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. This is not to identify He not one true God, but by showing God’s the New Covenant

Abram to Abraham means Father of the Most High

Abraham's wife’s Sarai means princess the change Sarai to Sarah Mother of nations

Sarah gives the name to their son Isaac which means Laughter

Jacob to Israel means The God that Strives, and Sup-planter means having power with God

Simon’s name means God has heard

Peter's name means The Rock

These name changes to identify the one true God

VATICAN: They Identify that God Only Identify only God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

We read in Genesis 17:1-5 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.
And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly."

Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying:

"As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations.

NOTE: I am
Vatican Say: He doesn’t say: I am the Omnipotent One, this is an insult to God of Israel, this where the word of blasphemy Vatican Words

VATICAN: (The Reader: But God is Not the Father of Darkness, I quote scripture, by letter of the law.)

Note: Another Insult to the God of light, saying the God of Israel is a God of Darkness

VATICAN: In this way, He reveals himself as the God who made an alliance with our fathers and remains ever faithful to his pact and calls us to enter into this relationship that precedes us. God’s relationship with his people precedes us all, it comes from that time.

(Meaning the Saints on earth)

2# VATICAN: In this sense, one’s thought goes in the first place, with gratitude, to those who went before us and who welcomed us into the Church.

No one becomes Christian on his or her own! Is that clear? No one becomes Christian by him- or herself.

Christians are not made in a laboratory. A Christian is part of a people who come from afar.

The Church, The Parish​

The Christian belongs to a people called the Church and this Church is what makes him or her Christian, on the day of Baptism, and then in the course of catechesis, and so on. But no one, no one becomes Christian on his or her own.

If we believe, if we know how to pray, if we acknowledge the Lord and can listen to his Word, if we feel him close to us and recognize him in our brothers and sisters, it is because others, before us, lived the faith and then transmitted it to us.

We have received the faith from our fathers, from our ancestors, and they have instructed us in it. If we think about it carefully, who knows how many beloved faces pass before our eyes at this moment: it could be the face of our parents who requested our Baptism; that of our grandparents, or of some family member who taught us how to make the sign of the Cross and to recite our first prayers?

I always remember the face of the nun, who taught me the Catechism, but she always comes to mind — she is in Heaven for sure, because she was a holy woman — I always remember her and give thanks to God for this sister.

Or it could be the face of the parish priest, of another priest, or a sister or a catechist, who transmitted the contents of the faith to us and helped us to grow as Christians.... So, this is the Church: one great family, where we are welcomed and learn to live as believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus.

The Church, meaning not of the body of Christ but the Parish only​

.We are able to live this journey not only because of others but together with others. In the Church there is no “do it yourself”, there are no “free agents”.
How many times did Pope Benedict “describe the Church as an ecclesial ‘we’”! At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church...”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good.

There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct, and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations.

These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us... But the Lord entrusted his message of salvation to a few human beings, to us all, to a few witnesses; and it is in our brothers and in our sisters, with their gifts and limitations, that he comes to meet us and make himself known.

And this is what it means to belong to the Church. Remember this well: to be Christian means belonging to the Church.

The first name is “Christian”, and the last name is “belonging to the Church”. (The Parish)

let us ask the Lord, through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, Mother of the Church, for the grace never to fall into the temptation of thinking we can make it without others, that we can get along without the Church, that we can save ourselves on our own, of being Christians from the laboratory. On the contrary, you cannot love God without loving your brothers, you cannot love God outside of the Church; you cannot be in communion with God without being so in the Church, and we cannot be good Christians if we are not together with those who seek to follow the Lord Jesus, as one single people, one single body, and this is the Church. Thank you.

I offer a cordial greeting to the delegation from Bethlehem University, which this year is celebrating the 40th anniversary of its foundation, with special appreciation for its praiseworthy educational apostolate among the Palestinian people. I greet all the English-speaking pilgrims and visitors taking part in today’s Audience, including those from England and Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Greece, Australia, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, the Antilles, and the United States. Upon all of you, and upon your families, I invoke joy and peace in the Lord Jesus.

Lastly, I greet the young people, the sick and newlyweds. The echo of the Solemnity of the Body and Blood of Christ, which we recently celebrated, still resounds. Dear young people, always find in the Eucharist the nourishment for your spiritual life. Dear sick people — especially those linked with us in the Paul VI Hall — offer your suffering and your prayers to the Lord, that he may continue to spread his love in the hearts of people. And you, dear newlyweds, approach the Eucharist with renewed faith, that nourished by Christ you may be families inspired by concrete Christian testimony.

Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem not Rome or the Vatican.

 

[surada]

You do know that Moses Wife was through Ishmael? Jethro was of Ishmael. Oops! You lose that argument that the many nations included Ishmael. Ishmael wasn’t banished because of an illegitimate son. He was banished for fighting with Isaac and not excepting Isaac. Hagar as well was jealous. And, God did not punish Sarah. In fact, for being faithful, she was blessed with Isaac. So, there goes all that out the window. You aren’t doing very well. God did bless Abraham for being obedient and taking on wives. Hagar wasn’t the only one. You are so ignorant.

So why did Mormons give up polygamy?

 

[Cougarbear]

So why did Mormons give up polygamy?

There you go again moving goalposts when you lose the debate.
Why does it matter? Are you sad to see it go? The truth is the percentage of men in a polygamist state was very small. The lord says in the NT that these are the times of the restitution of all things. So, the state of polygamy was restored. It was done. So, by eliminating it is not defying God. It was time to do that Utah could become a state in the US. Brigham Young was inspiring to come to Salt Lake and the Utah territory for safety and for the Church to get stronger. That was more important.

 

[surada]

There you go again moving goalposts when you lose the debate.
Why does it matter? Are you sad to see it go? The truth is the percentage of men in a polygamist state was very small. The lord says in the NT that these are the times of the restitution of all things. So, the state of polygamy was restored. It was done. So, by eliminating it is not defying God. It was time to do that Utah could become a state in the US. Brigham Young was inspiring to come to Salt Lake and the Utah territory for safety and for the Church to get stronger. That was more important.

Just wondered. Moses was married to Ziporrah, wasn't he?

 

[Cougarbear]

Just wondered. Moses was married to Ziporrah, wasn't he?

Yes, daughter of Jethro the Ismaelite

 

[surada]

Yes, daughter of Jethro the Ismaelite

Jethro had seven daughters, didn't he?

 

[surada]

the future

​

From Paul VI Hall Assembly, Today there is another group of pilgrims linked up with us in the Paul VI Hall; they are pilgrims suffering from illnesses.

Blaspheme the Holy Spirit and His Children
POPE FRANCIS St. Peter's Square
Wednesday, 25 June 2014
With this weather, between the heat and the possibility of rain, it was more prudent that they stay there.
But they are linked with us via maxi screen. And thus we are together at the same audience.
And today let us all pray especially for them, for their illnesses. Thank you.

Note: Pope Francis says we the Body of Christ have an illness because of our Christian belief in having a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit and God

In the first catechesis on the Church, last Wednesday, we began with the initiative of God who wants to form a people to carry his blessing to all the nations of the earth.

He begins with Abraham and then, with great patience — and God has that; he has a great deal of that! — He prepares this people of the Old Covenant so that, in Jesus Christ, he will establish it as the sign and instrument of mankind’s communion with God and unity with one another (cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution Lumen Gentium, n. 1). Today we would like to pause on the importance for a Christian to belong to this people.

We will speak about belonging to the Church. (Meaning The Parish)

The reader and a writer, I am a true Christian, how am I a true Christian? First I read the letter of POPE FRANCIS, in his own words.

By the letter of the law, written law, by scripture, in the language, put forth from time past to the very present time!
I comment on offensive words from VATICAN, Paul VI Hall General Assembly.

1 # We read. You are not isolated, and we meaning you, are not Christians on an individual basis.

Each one on His or Her own, not by any means, by the letter of the language! (Meaning by the letter of language, (VATICAN!) if I say by my own choices I am a true Christian it’s not by yours own to say I am).

VATICAN: Our Christian identity is to belong! We are Christians because we belong to the Church. (The Parish)

(Meaning, to belong solely under the VATICAN Church, one Church under the earth, By the letter of the language! In one way of saying, not above the Heaven)

Revelation 13:6 (And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

VATICAN: It is like a last name: if the first name is “I am Christian”, the last name is “I belong to the Church”.
(Meaning I belong to a Church under the earth, not above)

VATICAN: It is so beautiful to observe how this belonging is also expressed in the name God gives to himself.
(Using the name and deity of God the Father, Abba)

VATICAN: In answer to Moses in that wonderful episode of the “burning bush”, he defines himself as the God of the fathers (cf. Ex 3:15).

(The Word does not just say I AM,” but to His adversary as well)

Exodus 3:15-17 (NKJV) states, Moreover, God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

(I underline the quote they are referring to! But in the same matter, God continues to say,

Has sent me to you.

This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.'

Exodus 3:16 Go and gather the elders of Israel together, and say to them, 'The LORD God of your

Exodus 3:17 fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared to me, saying, "I have surely visited you and seen what is done to you in Egypt. Remember Egypt pass.

Note; VATICAN: The Parish is Egypt and it has not passed yet. The Vatican is referred as which spiritually as Sodom and Egypt

Revelation 11:8 (And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Cesar Bossier, did you find out why is he?

VATICAN: He doesn’t say: I am the Omnipotent One..., no: I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

My remark to this letter
This phrase: I am not! To density that is only the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. This is not to identify He not one true God, but by showing God’s the New Covenant

Abram to Abraham means Father of the Most High

Abraham's wife’s Sarai means princess the change Sarai to Sarah Mother of nations

Sarah gives the name to their son Isaac which means Laughter

Jacob to Israel means The God that Strives, and Sup-planter means having power with God

Simon’s name means God has heard

Peter's name means The Rock

These name changes to identify the one true God

VATICAN: They Identify that God Only Identify only God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

We read in Genesis 17:1-5 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless.
And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly."

Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying:

"As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations.

NOTE: I am
Vatican Say: He doesn’t say: I am the Omnipotent One, this is an insult to God of Israel, this where the word of blasphemy Vatican Words

VATICAN: (The Reader: But God is Not the Father of Darkness, I quote scripture, by letter of the law.)

Note: Another Insult to the God of light, saying the God of Israel is a God of Darkness

VATICAN: In this way, He reveals himself as the God who made an alliance with our fathers and remains ever faithful to his pact and calls us to enter into this relationship that precedes us. God’s relationship with his people precedes us all, it comes from that time.

(Meaning the Saints on earth)

2# VATICAN: In this sense, one’s thought goes in the first place, with gratitude, to those who went before us and who welcomed us into the Church.

No one becomes Christian on his or her own! Is that clear? No one becomes Christian by him- or herself.

Christians are not made in a laboratory. A Christian is part of a people who come from afar.

The Church, The Parish​

The Christian belongs to a people called the Church and this Church is what makes him or her Christian, on the day of Baptism, and then in the course of catechesis, and so on. But no one, no one becomes Christian on his or her own.

If we believe, if we know how to pray, if we acknowledge the Lord and can listen to his Word, if we feel him close to us and recognize him in our brothers and sisters, it is because others, before us, lived the faith and then transmitted it to us.

We have received the faith from our fathers, from our ancestors, and they have instructed us in it. If we think about it carefully, who knows how many beloved faces pass before our eyes at this moment: it could be the face of our parents who requested our Baptism; that of our grandparents, or of some family member who taught us how to make the sign of the Cross and to recite our first prayers?

I always remember the face of the nun, who taught me the Catechism, but she always comes to mind — she is in Heaven for sure, because she was a holy woman — I always remember her and give thanks to God for this sister.

Or it could be the face of the parish priest, of another priest, or a sister or a catechist, who transmitted the contents of the faith to us and helped us to grow as Christians.... So, this is the Church: one great family, where we are welcomed and learn to live as believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus.

The Church, meaning not of the body of Christ but the Parish only​

.We are able to live this journey not only because of others but together with others. In the Church there is no “do it yourself”, there are no “free agents”.
How many times did Pope Benedict “describe the Church as an ecclesial ‘we’”! At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church...”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good.

There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct, and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations.

These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us... But the Lord entrusted his message of salvation to a few human beings, to us all, to a few witnesses; and it is in our brothers and in our sisters, with their gifts and limitations, that he comes to meet us and make himself known.

And this is what it means to belong to the Church. Remember this well: to be Christian means belonging to the Church.

The first name is “Christian”, and the last name is “belonging to the Church”. (The Parish)

let us ask the Lord, through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, Mother of the Church, for the grace never to fall into the temptation of thinking we can make it without others, that we can get along without the Church, that we can save ourselves on our own, of being Christians from the laboratory. On the contrary, you cannot love God without loving your brothers, you cannot love God outside of the Church; you cannot be in communion with God without being so in the Church, and we cannot be good Christians if we are not together with those who seek to follow the Lord Jesus, as one single people, one single body, and this is the Church. Thank you.

I offer a cordial greeting to the delegation from Bethlehem University, which this year is celebrating the 40th anniversary of its foundation, with special appreciation for its praiseworthy educational apostolate among the Palestinian people. I greet all the English-speaking pilgrims and visitors taking part in today’s Audience, including those from England and Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Greece, Australia, Taiwan, Vietnam, India, the Antilles, and the United States. Upon all of you, and upon your families, I invoke joy and peace in the Lord Jesus.

Lastly, I greet the young people, the sick and newlyweds. The echo of the Solemnity of the Body and Blood of Christ, which we recently celebrated, still resounds. Dear young people, always find in the Eucharist the nourishment for your spiritual life. Dear sick people — especially those linked with us in the Paul VI Hall — offer your suffering and your prayers to the Lord, that he may continue to spread his love in the hearts of people. And you, dear newlyweds, approach the Eucharist with renewed faith, that nourished by Christ you may be families inspired by concrete Christian testimony.

I see the problem. You got Rev 11 wrong.

Revelation 11:8. ESV and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

 

[Cougarbear]

Jethro had seven daughters, didn't he?

According to the Book of Genesis, the Midianites were descended from Midian, who was the son of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham by the latter's second wife, Keturah.

 

[the other mike]

This is a stretch, even for a "conspiracy theorist" like me. .....but it is my personal guess that there is more gold in the Vatican than in any other one location.

Including Beijing , Moscow , Fort Knox , London , Saudi Arabia , Switzerland or anywhere else.

 

[surada]

According to the Book of Genesis, the Midianites were descended from Midian, who was the son of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham by the latter's second wife, Keturah.

Yes. I think Keturah had six sons.