Zone1 Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical?

[forkintheroad7]

Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical?​

It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Jesus’ mother Mary remained a virgin for her entire life. Is this concept biblical? Before we look at specific Scriptures, it is important to understand why the Roman Catholic Church believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Roman Catholic Church views Mary as "the Mother of God" and "Queen of Heaven." Catholics believe Mary to have an exalted place in Heaven, with the closest access to Jesus and God the Father. Such a concept is nowhere taught in Scripture.

This shows how much u know about scripture.

In the first chapter of Luke it says that an angel visited Mary and told her she would be the mother of the messiah. The first thing she said

was... Wait, first of all, she was at that time betrothed to Joseph, so why would she say to the angel "How can this be...?"

She was planning on remaining a virgin even AFTER married, as these scripture passages indicate.

Only someone planning on remaining a virgin after a planned marriage would ask that question.

 

[forkintheroad7]

There is no Scriptural support for the idea of Mary remaining a virgin after Yeshua's birth.

"I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children".

Where in the Bible does it say that she did not remain a virgin? Sola scriptura is NOT in the Bible

See a post I just posted. She planned to remain a virgin WHILE married to Joseph.

The womb that holds GOD himself must be absolutely HOLY, which means "separate unto God"

and why would that womb become, shall we say, not so holy after God (Jesus) left it?

 

[hadit]

Where in the Bible does it say that she did not remain a virgin? Sola scriptura is NOT in the Bible

Where it says her children were with her.

See a post I just posted. She planned to remain a virgin WHILE married to Joseph.

Where was Joseph informed he was to be celibate for the rest of his life?

The womb that holds GOD himself must be absolutely HOLY, which means "separate unto God"

Why is that? The angels informing Mary and Joseph never said word one that her womb was to remain barren after Jesus was born.

and why would that womb become, shall we say, not so holy after God (Jesus) left it?

Marriage itself is sacred to God, children are a blessing from God, and there is nothing profane about sex between a husband and wife. In fact, it is sacred. Tell me this, did Mary continue menstruation on a regular basis after Jesus was born? If she did, you know that she became unclean by Jewish law when it happened, right?

 

[forkintheroad7]

Where it says her children were with her.

That's not in the Bible. I've read it

 

[forkintheroad7]

Where was Joseph informed he was to be celibate for the rest of his life?

Show me where it says he was NOT to be celibate?

 

[Meriweather]

Where it says her children were with her.

Answered numerous times. The word used referred to kin. Also keep in mind that on the cross, he said to his Mother and John--behold your mother, behold your son. And John took her into his care. Had there been other children, Mary would have remained in their care.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Marriage itself is sacred to God, children are a blessing from God, and there is nothing profane about sex between a husband and wife

Irrelevant. No one said otherwise, except I did say that the Womb that would hold God Himself had to be HOLY, completely set aside for GOD alone. You do realize that GOD is a little different from man?

 

[forkintheroad7]

Answered numerous times. The word used referred to kin. Also keep in mind that on the cross, he said to his Mother and John--behold your mother, behold your son. And John took her into his care. Had there been other children, Mary would have remained in their care.

thanks. I had not remembered that one.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Nice how Protestants ignore scripture when it appears that Catholics can know scripture also

 

[hadit]

Answered numerous times. The word used referred to kin.

And was also translated children. It is not definite that the word used meant relatives INSTEAD OF children.

Also keep in mind that on the cross, he said to his Mother and John--behold your mother, behold your son. And John took her into his care. Had there been other children, Mary would have remained in their care.

There's a problem you just revealed that I don't think you've considered before. IF, as you so confidently state just one sentence before, her children were not her children but extended family, they STILL would have taken care of her as a widow before John, as she was their relative and he not so much. Sorry, but you just lost one of your favorite arguments. The bottom line remains, He picked John to take care of Mary after He went to the Father. Why is not specified.

 

[hadit]

Irrelevant. No one said otherwise, except I did say that the Womb that would hold God Himself had to be HOLY, completely set aside for GOD alone. You do realize that GOD is a little different from man?

Of course I do, and I also know that marriage is sacred to God. Sex between husband and wife is not profane, in fact is holy and blessed by God. There was nothing wrong with Joseph and Mary having a robust sex life after Jesus was born. In fact, Scripture specifies that Joseph didn't touch her until after the birth, meaning he did afterward. You have to ignore the plain meaning behind that to insist he didn't.

 

[hadit]

That's not in the Bible. I've read it

Oh, it's in there. You just choose to ignore the translated word as it is most commonly used.

 

[hadit]

Show me where it says he was NOT to be celibate?

It doesn't address it, therefore God didn't think it was critical for us to worry about. Where God demands celibacy as part of a vow to Him, He states it. As far as Scripture is concerned, Mary and Joseph had a robust sex life and were blessed with several children.

 

[Foxfyre]

Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical?​

It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Jesus’ mother Mary remained a virgin for her entire life. Is this concept biblical? Before we look at specific Scriptures, it is important to understand why the Roman Catholic Church believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Roman Catholic Church views Mary as "the Mother of God" and "Queen of Heaven." Catholics believe Mary to have an exalted place in Heaven, with the closest access to Jesus and God the Father. Such a concept is nowhere taught in Scripture. Further, even if Mary did occupy such an exalted position, her having sexual intercourse would not have prevented her from gaining such a position. Sex in marriage is not sinful. Mary would have in no way defiled herself by having sexual relations with Joseph her husband. The entire concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary is based on an unbiblical teaching, Mary as Queen of Heaven, and on an unbiblical understanding of sex.

So, what does the Bible say about the perpetual virginity of Mary? Using the New American Bible, which is a Catholic translation, we can see that the perpetual virginity of Mary is not taught in the Bible. Matthew 1:25 NAB tells us, "He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus." He, Joseph, did not have sexual relations with her, Mary, UNTIL after she bore a son, Jesus." The meaning of this Scripture is abundantly clear. Joseph and Mary did not have sexual relations until after Jesus was born. Matthew 13:55-56 NAB declares, "Is He not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother named Mary and his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Are not His sisters all with us?" Catholics claim, correctly, that the Greek terms for "brothers" and "sisters" in these verses could also refer to male and female relatives, not necessarily literal brothers and sisters. However, the intended meaning is clear, they thought Jesus to be Joseph’s son, the son of Mary, and the brother of James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas, and the brother of the unnamed and unnumbered sisters. Father, mother, brother, sister. It is straining the meaning of the text to interpret “brothers” and “sisters” as "cousins" or "relatives" with the mentioning of Jesus’ mother and father.

Matthew 12:46 NAB tells us, "While He was still speaking to the crowds, His mother and His brothers appeared outside, wishing to speak with Him." See also Mark 3:31-34; Luke 8:19-21; John 2:12; and Acts 1:14. All mention Jesus’ mother with His brothers. If they were His cousins, or the sons of Joseph from a previous marriage, why were they mentioned with Mary so often? The idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary cannot be drawn from Scripture. It must be forced on Scripture, in contradiction to what the Scriptures clearly state.

Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical? | GotQuestions.org

Is the perpetual virginity of Mary biblical? If Mary was perpetually a virgin, how did Jesus have brothers and sisters?

www.gotquestions.org

I had a Christian teacher one time ask me if Mary was found to not have been virgin when Jesus was born, would it shake my faith in the Christmas story? At the time I thought such a 'lie' in the Bible would have consequences but since then I just accept it as written and don't concern myself with the details.

Numerous passages of scriptures refer to Jesus' brothers and sisters but in the language and customs of that period of history, these could have been Joseph's children by a prior marriage or even cousins.

To me it is unreasonable to think that Mary and Joseph never consummated their marriage and I rather think they probably did. Does it matter? To me, no.

 

[Meriweather]

And was also translated children. It is not definite that the word used meant relatives INSTEAD OF children.

I am simply pointing out what the original word used meant. Kin. Of course it could reference children, step-children, nieces, nephews, cousins. The point is, the Mary told the angel she would not know man. Jesus assigned John to care for his mother. In the early church it was said Mary remained a virgin, and some said the 'brethren' translation was misleading as some might take it to mean Mary had other children. This was laughed away as the response was, "No one is going to believe that!"

There's a problem you just revealed that I don't think you've considered before. IF, as you so confidently state just one sentence before, her children were not her children but extended family, they STILL would have taken care of her as a widow before John, as she was their relative and he not so much. Sorry, but you just lost one of your favorite arguments. The bottom line remains, He picked John to take care of Mary after He went to the Father. Why is not specified.

That is reaching. These others would have their own parents to care for and who would have come first.

Why is it so important that Mary had other children? I've studied the original words; I've studied the traditions. I'm not seeing it...except through poor translations.

 

[hadit]

I had a Christian teacher one time ask me if Mary was found to not have been virgin when Jesus was born, would it shake my faith in the Christmas story? At the time I thought such a 'lie' in the Bible would have consequences but since then I just accept it as written and don't concern myself with the details.

Numerous passages of scriptures refer to Jesus' brothers and sisters but in the language and customs of that period of history, these could have been Joseph's children by a prior marriage or even cousins.

To me it is unreasonable to think that Mary and Joseph never consummated their marriage and I rather think they probably did. Does it matter? To me, no.

It only matters when someone tries to elevate Mary above what she actually was, one of God's agents that He picked, blessed and set on a hard road. I've talked with a Catholic woman who prayed to Mary, hoping that she would hear the prayer and take it to Jesus, and that He would listen to Mary more than He would the woman who was supposed to be praying directly to Him. That, unfortunately, is a sad result of such adulation.

 

[Meriweather]

To me it is unreasonable to think that Mary and Joseph never consummated their marriage and I rather think they probably did. Does it matter? To me, no.

I wish I could remember where at one time I read there were people in that time who chose to remain virgins or become celibate. It was a remarkable vow and would have been noteworthy simply because Jews were expected (and most wanted) to have many children. People of her own time could have nodded at Mary, whispering, She is one of them....It wouldn't have been said with admiration, either.

 

[forkintheroad7]

And was also translated children. It is not definite that the word used meant relatives INSTEAD OF children.

There is no psg that says what you allege. There is a psg about how Jesus's brothers and sisters were there, where He was. But in the Aramaic and or Hebrew there is no word for Cousins. Cousins were called either brother or sister or KIN.

 

[Meriweather]

That, unfortunately, is a sad result of such adulation.

Poor Paul. He, too, asked others to pray for him. Is that an "adulation" as well? Why didn't Paul pray directly to Jesus himself?

 

[forkintheroad7]

To me it is unreasonable to think that Mary and Joseph never consummated their marriage and I rather think they probably did. Does it matter? To me, no.

Humans are always trying to bring God down to their own carnal or natural level.

It doesn't matter to you (to answer your question) but it did to God. See my other posts here about how Mary was incredulous that she would have a child. Why? She was getting ready to be married, was betrothed to J... so WHY would she ask


HOW can this be? (emphasis added)