Is The Cost of College Worth Debt?

[topspin]

we start petrolium engineers at $80,000. Most educated people would rather do something like that than clean toilets.

 

[Skull Pilot]

we start petrolium engineers at $80,000. Most educated people would rather do something like that than clean toilets.

Snob.

How many petroleum engineer positions are there that pay that the first year? Not too many I'll venture and the average engineer salary when i was in school was way less than that.

And I told you, I wasn't cleaning. i had crews cleaning for me. If you can't understand that then you are only capable of working for someone else.

 

[boedicca]

The value of education is not measured by income.

Then going into massive amounts of debt for it is rather silly.

 

[boedicca]

One off examples are a dime a dozen.

And such one off examples are worth orders of magnitude more than your silly little opinions.

 

[Richard-H]

Since the 1970s there has been a massive over-evaluation of college education by employers and a massive under-evaluation of labor.

Most college educated do not produce in real terms nearly what they are paid, while labor, especially skilled labor produces the majority of the world's wealth.

It seems that social engineering is the reason for this situation.

Education should be a goal unto itself - not a ticket to hire income. Productive work should be the determinant of income.

What's worse is the overall belief that college is the only way that people get educated.

Truly educated people educate themselves - and continue to educate themselves throughout their lives. Many college grads limit their education to just the minimum needed to get their degrees - and in fact remain wholly uneducated.

 

[topspin]

I am a snob cleaning toilets is beneath me and most college grads.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I am a snob cleaning toilets is beneath me and most college grads.

So who cleans yours?

For someone so educated you really have a hard time understanding the difference between being an employee, a self employed employee and a business owner.

As an employee someone owns your job and you have absolutely no control over anything related to that job.

As a self employed person, you own your job. You have complete control and on average you can make the same as you would working for someone else.

As a business owner, you own the jobs of others and multiply your efforts. Your earning potential is limitless where in the other two options your income is bound by how many hours you alone can work or how many hours a boss lets you work.

A business owner can make money if he himself does not work. I could clean 4 big houses a day when I was doing all the work I averaged 200 a day ( 25 years ago) After my first year I ran 2 crews that cleaned 10 houses a day even after paying them I more than doubled my income even though i was not cleaning anymore. After 4 years I had 4 crews that cleaned 20 houses a day and 5 office buildings a night my income tripled and I never cleaned a toilet.

If you can't see that an owner of a cleaning business can leverage the efforts of others to make more than one engineer working for someone else then you are destined to be a wage slave. May your chains lie lightly upon you.

 

[topspin]

I have an MBA and can run circles around you in business knowledge janitor.

 

[rdean]

Too bad they didn't go into the military. At that young age, they still could.

Shit, rdean, that's a damn intelligent statement.......see how much a few days of rest, and taking your meds helps!!

I didn't take my meds. I took YOUR meds. Which is why I needed the time to recover.

 

[rdean]

Screw college, be a plumber.

That's right, graduate high school and get yourself an apprentice job. Work your way up and eventually start your own shop.

The work might be digusting at times but it pays well, and not nearly as disgusting as sitting on your ass all day in a cubicle staring at a damn computer screen and dealing with office politics.

And as an added benefit, you'll never be outsourced.

Yes and no. I've been to the sales department and it's exactly as you say. You are basically passing on information like a baton. You never get to start the race and you never get to finish the race. For some, it's enough. For others, it's carpal tunnel syndrome.

As a design engineer, you get to design "stuff". It's like "project runway". Seeing people building what you design. Seeing it go from computer to shop floor. Seeing it "turned on" for the first time. Seeing it in brochures. Seeing it crated and out the door. Seeing the first 100 milestone. Knowing that it's filling the paychecks of hundreds of people.

We've lost that in this country. People want only average. The easy way. The "lottery".

A new guy working on the assembly line once asked me, "What do you do here?" I said, "See that equipment your building? I designed it". He said, "You expect me to believe that?" I said, "Why would I lie about something that you could ask anyone for the truth?" And wouldn't you know it. As soon as the last presidential election started making news, he was telling everyone, "Vote Republican" and saying he wished Bush could run again. I was not at all surprised.

 

[Samson]

I have an MBA and can run circles around you in business knowledge janitor.

^^^^

Why I'm reluctant to say I have an MBA

 

[Mr. H.]

My son is 10's of k's in debt, but he went to the college of his choice and is working in the industry of his dreams. He makes good money but lives in L.A. which equates to making half that amount and living in the midwest. Yeah it was worth it. Besides when I croak he'll inherit enuf to pay it all off.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have an MBA and can run circles around you in business knowledge janitor.

I have 2 bachelors and a masters

And I never was a janitor you fucking elitist snob. I sold that cleaning business over 20 years ago and used the money to start my next business.

And if you're so business savvy, why aren't you a business owner? How many people did you employ when you were 23 years old. I had 15 employees.

Tell me did your business grow 18% during the last 2 years despite the economy? Oh that's right I forgot you're a wage slave.

Be a good boy now and go kiss your boss's ass because we know you certainly don't have the balls to control your own destiny.

 

[psikeyhackr]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0wk4qG2mIg]YouTube - ‪Harvard Graduates Explain Seasons‬‎[/ame]

ROFLMAO

Of course the average employer doesn't care if an employee can't explain the seasons.

The MBA's don't talk about the planned obsolescence of automobiles either.

PBS Discussions :: View topic - The Algebra of Economics

Work your life away going into debt to buy garbage designed to become obsolete.

That is why we have this mess. How much has the world lost on the depreciation of crapmobiles in the last 50 years? What if half that much had been used to pay off mortgages at an accelerated rate?

psik

 

[topspin]

skull douce, not everyone has a hard on for owning a business. I had my site on becoming a millionaire by investing. I did it a decade earlier than the average millionaire takes (49 vs 59). I don't care if you have more. I don't work long hours or work hard, never have. I've lived a very comfortable country club lifestyle cause that's what I choose. I put my family above career.

 

[Skull Pilot]

skull douce, not everyone has a hard on for owning a business. I had my site on becoming a millionaire by investing. I did it a decade earlier than the average millionaire takes (49 vs 50). I don't care if you have more. I don't work long hours or work hard, never have. I've lived a very comfortable country club lifestyle cause that's what I choose. I put my family above career.

If you don't care to own a business then why tout yourself as knowing more than me Mr "I have an MBA"? Big fucking deal; the idiot who runs the Dunkin Donuts down the street from me has an MBA.

And you better check your math smart guy. 1 year is not a decade.

I don't give a flying fuck what you have or don't have or what other fucking snobs you associate with.

That look down your nose elitist attitude is my problem. So if you feel the need to measure dicks, my wife and I netted 1 million in that last 4 years alone and I would still rather hang out with the plumber, electrician and carpenter than an effete snobbish asshole like you.

And whatever you assume about my family, you're wrong. You have no clue about that or much else as far as I can tell.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Good read. I am happy I pay cash for my tuition. (Yes, I earned it myself.)

I'm very much pro-university studies, I've spent more time in advanced studies than required schooling. However, it's become the norm for nearly everyone to pick up after high school and that just doesn't seem to be working out for those coming out.

We bemoan the lack of classes for the gifted and academically challenged, yet on some level seem to have bought into the idea that all are academically qualified to go to university. Is it any surprise that university education has been dummied down?

On the other hand, how many kids that were naturally talented in trade type skills, were made to feel wrong if they weren't so keen on going to college? How well were they going to do in those required courses of British Lit? Probably as well as the average liberal arts student was in the required Trig courses, but that was one or two course out of two years required.

Actually today's economy is for the first time in my lifetime that parents are listening to kids who say they want to try something else, before going onto college. Nearly everyone knows of someone under 25 who has a university degree but can't find an entry level job with benefits, at least one they consider entry level. Young people are trying to gain skills in what are traditionally the 'trades', though the unions aren't really hiring apprentices. The kids are picking them up off the union track. Electrical, plumbing, roofing, brick laying, all are skills and services needed. Car repairs is another. These are not jobs that China or India can be outsourced to.

I'm guessing in a few years there will be major uproars in a state like IL, that requires union workers and wages for all work. Lots of things are changing, it will be interesting indeed to see where it all goes.

I have noticed over time that "do-it-yourself" skills, which were once common, have virtually vanished from native-born Americans. Where I live, if you need home remodeling work of any type done, chances are excellent that you're hiring a Mexican-American, or possibly an Asian-American. And I am using these hyphenations deliberately to denote someone who was not born in this country, or at most someone whose parents were not born here.

It's not just traditionally male skills, either. Domestic skills that one would once have taken for granted in most women are disappearing, too. It is a huge shocker to people that I can not only repair my own clothing when it's damaged, but I can actually make a garment from scratch. Crochet is so dirt-simple that I can do it in a darkened theater while watching a movie, but show someone a completed project, and you would think I just spun straw into gold before their eyes. Even cooking, on a basic domestic "my family needs dinner" level is becoming a rarity. You're either a serious "foodie" going on about gourmet cuisine, or you're making a lot of frozen lasagna or Hamburger Helper, it seems. Take a batch of homemade tamales to a Christmas party and you're suddenly Julia Child.

 

[topspin]

I don't care if you have 10 mill. I wouldn't clean toilets janitor. And I'll leave the guys dicks for you. I'm not gay.

 

[rightwinger]

Good read. I am happy I pay cash for my tuition. (Yes, I earned it myself.)

I'm very much pro-university studies, I've spent more time in advanced studies than required schooling. However, it's become the norm for nearly everyone to pick up after high school and that just doesn't seem to be working out for those coming out.

We bemoan the lack of classes for the gifted and academically challenged, yet on some level seem to have bought into the idea that all are academically qualified to go to university. Is it any surprise that university education has been dummied down?

On the other hand, how many kids that were naturally talented in trade type skills, were made to feel wrong if they weren't so keen on going to college? How well were they going to do in those required courses of British Lit? Probably as well as the average liberal arts student was in the required Trig courses, but that was one or two course out of two years required.

Actually today's economy is for the first time in my lifetime that parents are listening to kids who say they want to try something else, before going onto college. Nearly everyone knows of someone under 25 who has a university degree but can't find an entry level job with benefits, at least one they consider entry level. Young people are trying to gain skills in what are traditionally the 'trades', though the unions aren't really hiring apprentices. The kids are picking them up off the union track. Electrical, plumbing, roofing, brick laying, all are skills and services needed. Car repairs is another. These are not jobs that China or India can be outsourced to.

I'm guessing in a few years there will be major uproars in a state like IL, that requires union workers and wages for all work. Lots of things are changing, it will be interesting indeed to see where it all goes.

I have noticed over time that "do-it-yourself" skills, which were once common, have virtually vanished from native-born Americans. Where I live, if you need home remodeling work of any type done, chances are excellent that you're hiring a Mexican-American, or possibly an Asian-American. And I am using these hyphenations deliberately to denote someone who was not born in this country, or at most someone whose parents were not born here.

It's not just traditionally male skills, either. Domestic skills that one would once have taken for granted in most women are disappearing, too. It is a huge shocker to people that I can not only repair my own clothing when it's damaged, but I can actually make a garment from scratch. Crochet is so dirt-simple that I can do it in a darkened theater while watching a movie, but show someone a completed project, and you would think I just spun straw into gold before their eyes. Even cooking, on a basic domestic "my family needs dinner" level is becoming a rarity. You're either a serious "foodie" going on about gourmet cuisine, or you're making a lot of frozen lasagna or Hamburger Helper, it seems. Take a batch of homemade tamales to a Christmas party and you're suddenly Julia Child.

You are so right. Cooking skills are a lost art. People will spend $40,000 on a professional quality kitchen and not know how to crack an egg.

I live in a neighborhood where most of the original owners are in their 50s. We have small quarter acre lots and all the original owners use push mowers to cut the grass (it takes 20 min). The new owners in their 20's who all work out in the gym either buy an expensive lawn tractor or hire Mexicans to cut their grass.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't care if you have 10 mill. I wouldn't clean toilets janitor. And I'll leave the guys dicks for you. I'm not gay.

We all know you're too fucking stupid to be anything but a wage slave. You're the one who thinks that the difference between 49 and 50 is a decade. Tell me do you multiply everything by 10 so you can delude yourself that you actually are worth something?
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