Is man a spiritual being?

[ding]

Well then this shows you how stupid Christians are. They've been repeating that lie for centuries. Every Christian I know believes Mary was a virgin and God impregnated her.

I don't want to hear your 21st century new modern enterpretations of the bible. What you said Chistianity was for the last 2000 years is what it is. No changing with the times. No evolving.

It's not that they're stupid. It's just what they've been taught in the Church.

And really, unless people are spending time comparing the old Greek (that's really hard, too) and Hebrew, they'd never even know this stuff is mistranslated, purposeful or not. Not unless they're studying the Bible. By studying the Bible, I mean it's history.

Of all the bibles I've read, the KJV comes closest to what we have as original texts. We don't have original texts, but compered to the earliest Greek texts we do have, the KJV comes closest.

But reading the KJV even, nobody talked like that back then. I think they added around 500 new words to it, really poetic stuff, but it's not even a direct translation, it's a mix of Latin and Greek. The NT was pretty much a back door deal to make both the Protestants and the Catholics content and they still fought about it, remember when the Protestants tried to blow up King James because they thought he was siding wit hthe Catholics? lol.

I love this new spin that Mary wasn't a virgin. Finally after 2000 years you guys can't tell that lie any more some you are re translating that story? Interesting. Because this is what almost all Christians believe:

The virgin birth of Jesus is the New Testament teaching that Jesus was conceived in the womb of his mother Mary through the Holy Spirit without the agency of a human father and born while Mary was still a virgin.

Why is it so few of you know she wasn't really a virgin?

Look up poor William Tyndale. The Roman Catholics strangled him for changing words and phrases they didn't agree with. Then they burned him to make sure he was dead. Gosh. Bible linguistics were serious business.

William Tyndale - Wikipedia

So you are blaming religion which is nothing more than a tool instead of man, imperfect man who is never free of defects?

Well it's imperfect man who lied to your great great grandparents and brainwashed them. Then they passed that brainwashing down to you.

Imperfect man is why I don't buy man made religions.

And I couldn’t be happier for you.

But I don’t hold the same opinion. I hope you won’t form a mob to force me to believe as you do.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Was it destroyed?

Constantine destroyed most of the early writings and burned people at the stake for heresy.

In this case it was omitted. Do you know what the Gospel of Thomas is, ding?

Yes, I have even read the pop up book version.

Okay, what did you take from it? Because of all of the 45 books or so that were omitted, I shared that one with you specifically and specifically for you. It's a specific book which speaks directly to things that science cannot teach us yet we can learn it from the book. Yet the Bishops chose to omit it.

 

[ding]

It's not that they're stupid. It's just what they've been taught in the Church.

And really, unless people are spending time comparing the old Greek (that's really hard, too) and Hebrew, they'd never even know this stuff is mistranslated, purposeful or not. Not unless they're studying the Bible. By studying the Bible, I mean it's history.

Of all the bibles I've read, the KJV comes closest to what we have as original texts. We don't have original texts, but compered to the earliest Greek texts we do have, the KJV comes closest.

But reading the KJV even, nobody talked like that back then. I think they added around 500 new words to it, really poetic stuff, but it's not even a direct translation, it's a mix of Latin and Greek. The NT was pretty much a back door deal to make both the Protestants and the Catholics content and they still fought about it, remember when the Protestants tried to blow up King James because they thought he was siding wit hthe Catholics? lol.

I love this new spin that Mary wasn't a virgin. Finally after 2000 years you guys can't tell that lie any more some you are re translating that story? Interesting. Because this is what almost all Christians believe:

The virgin birth of Jesus is the New Testament teaching that Jesus was conceived in the womb of his mother Mary through the Holy Spirit without the agency of a human father and born while Mary was still a virgin.

Why is it so few of you know she wasn't really a virgin?

Look up poor William Tyndale. The Roman Catholics strangled him for changing words and phrases they didn't agree with. Then they burned him to make sure he was dead. Gosh. Bible linguistics were serious business.

William Tyndale - Wikipedia

Funny you mention William Tyndale. I worked at a Christian university named William Tyndale.

In 2001, Congressman Joe Knollenberg worked with Tyndale's President James C. McHann to secure almost $1.5 million in federal funding for the college. Prior to its closing, Tyndale was held afloat financially by Regent University for a short time, beginning in 2003.

In 2001, former President McHann and former Vice President W. Howard Burkeen and other school officials acquired a branch of Computer Learning Centers, Inc. and renamed it the NorthStar Institute of Technology. In November 2001, the school was raided under charges that NorthStar improperly provided federal aid to their student through Tyndale. At the conclusion of the case in 2005, Burkeen was ordered to repay the U.S. Department of Education over $300,000. McHann was acquitted of all charges.

I worked for McHann. He was a scumbag criminal. He should not have been acquitted.

You should consider forming a mob.

I got out before any money was owed to me. Some of his IT staff went into the classrooms and took hardware out of the computers in order to sell them so they could get the money he owed them and he was never going to pay them.

What a dick that Christian was. He was willing to risk our money to make his school successful but he didn't make us partners. At least Microsoft gave employees in the beginning stock in the company in exchange for their sacrifices. This guy lied to us and hired me knowing he couldn't afford me.

Sounds like an excellent reason to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water if you ask me.

I can tell your disbelief is really working for you seeing how you don’t evangelize your non-belief.

 

[sealybobo]

I believe she was born without original sin, lived a perfect life and was chosen as the vessel for Jesus Christ before she was born.

You are an apostate so I wouldn’t expect you to accept or believe any of those things.

Ding, I didn’t know you were Catholic. I don’t know any Christians who believe that Mary lived a perfect life. (Only Jesus did.) Was she a faithful and humble believer? Yes. But that doesn’t mean she lived a perfect life.

Was she a virgin when she had Jesus?

Yes. Doesn’t that make you happy to know I believe this?

Buttercup says you have misinterpreted the bible Ding. Let the debate begin.

If you guys can't even agree on the story why should any of us take either of you seriously?

Because everyone doesn’t need to agree. God loves diversity. He created it.

Are you telling me you want everyone to be a drone in your world?

Oh brother. Listen idiots. Either Mary was a virgin or she was not. This guy Natural Citizen has the balls to come here and claim Mary wasn't a virgin and that you all got that part of the story wrong. And of course you don't mind him being wrong because in your religion, it doesn't matter what the fuck you believe. Just believe Jesus is the lord and savior and you're in the club. All the rest is just nonsense anyways. The differences between Catholics and Protestants don't matter.

So you aren't going to challenge him on his comment that Mary wasn't really a virgin? Can he truly be considered a Christian if he believes that's not true? I don't think so. He's a cherry picker.

God this is frustrating. You guys don't even actually care if Mary was actually a virgin or if Jesus actually walked on water. Pathetic religion. You just don't see it because you are involved in it.

And we know you can argue anything Ding. Even the most ridiculous things you can argue.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm sorry it was Natural Citizen who says you guys are wrong about the virgin thing. Debate him.

I'm not really debating. Just sharing passing thoughts on it is all.

I guess you just swallowed and repeated that bullshit without really having the testicular fortitude to back it up and say proudly that this is what you believe.

Earlier you were talking like you were the expert and all these other Christians were just ignorant. Now you seem to be backpeddling. I don't think you want to try to defend that comment that you don't think Mary was really a virgin. That would be like saying you believe Jesus was just a really good dude. Do you know who believes that? Muslims and Jews.

In your defense, I don't think Mary was a virgin either.

 

[sealybobo]

Show me one guy in the middle east who would be ok with his virgin wife getting pregnant and telling him god did it.

She wasn't a virgin. That whole virgin birth thing is a total farce. They replaced the Greek term almah with the Latin term virgo.

Except the Greek term almah means young woman. Not virgin. In fact, there's nothing at all sexual about it.

So you were just talking out of your ass here. Thank you for admitting you really don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Some person probably told you this and it sounded good to you so you are repeating it here.

So if that's an allegory, is Jesus an allegory?

 

[ding]

I'm sorry it was Natural Citizen who says you guys are wrong about the virgin thing. Debate him.

I'm not really debating. Just sharing passing thoughts on it is all.

Then you are full of shit if you are not willing to explain to these fellow christians that Mary wasn't actually a virgin. I think they would laugh at you if you tried. I think it's funny

I don’t laugh at you so why would I laugh at him.

 

[ding]

I'm sorry it was Natural Citizen who says you guys are wrong about the virgin thing. Debate him.

I'm not really debating. Just sharing passing thoughts on it is all.

I guess you just swallowed and repeated that bullshit without really having the testicular fortitude to back it up and say proudly that this is what you believe.

Earlier you were talking like you were the expert and all these other Christians were just ignorant. Now you seem to be backpeddling. I don't think you want to try to defend that comment that you don't think Mary was really a virgin. That would be like saying you believe Jesus was just a really good dude. Do you know who believes that? Muslims and Jews.

In your defense, I don't think Mary was a virgin either.

Calm down, bro. Everything will work itself out. Have a little faith.

 

[Natural Citizen]

So you are blaming religion which is nothing more than a tool instead of man, imperfect man who is never free of defects?

Well, religion is merely the practice of one's religion.

All I'm saying is that there's the teaching of Jesus and there are the teachings of the Church. The Church teaches history in a way that's solely representative of their vested interests.

They burned the writings they didn't like and they burned its authors at the stake.

What was the Church establishment so afraid of that they felt they had to do that? Were they that afraid of losing control of society? Gosh.

 

[ding]

Was it destroyed?

Constantine destroyed most of the early writings and burned people at the stake for heresy.

In this case it was omitted. Do you know what the Gospel of Thomas is, ding?

Yes, I have even read the pop up book version.

Okay, what did you take from it? Because of all of the 45 books or so that were omitted, I shared that one with you specifically and specifically for you. It's a specific book which speaks directly to things that science cannot teach us yet we can learn it from the book. Yet the Bishops chose to omit it.

It is a compilation of quotes made by Jesus.

It doesn’t contain the context of when the quote was made. It is the context that allows the quote to be understood. Furthermore, the context itself contains valuable information.

It seems to me that you believe a conspiracy exists in the selection of texts that were canonized. Can you tell me what they conspired to do?

 

[ding]

So you are blaming religion which is nothing more than a tool instead of man, imperfect man who is never free of defects?

Well, religion is merely the practice of one's religion.

All I'm saying is that there's the teaching of Jesus and there are the teachings of the Church. The Church teaches history in a way that's solely representative of their vested interests.

They burned the writings they didn't like and they burned its authors at the stake.

What was the Church establishment so afraid of that they felt they had to do that? Were they that afraid of losing control of society? Gosh.

Can you be more specific about what interests they were protecting? And I mean really specific like they did not include this text because it would have shown this and they wanted it to show that?

 

[ding]

Ding, I didn’t know you were Catholic. I don’t know any Christians who believe that Mary lived a perfect life. (Only Jesus did.) Was she a faithful and humble believer? Yes. But that doesn’t mean she lived a perfect life.

Was she a virgin when she had Jesus?

Yes. Doesn’t that make you happy to know I believe this?

Buttercup says you have misinterpreted the bible Ding. Let the debate begin.

If you guys can't even agree on the story why should any of us take either of you seriously?

Because everyone doesn’t need to agree. God loves diversity. He created it.

Are you telling me you want everyone to be a drone in your world?

Oh brother. Listen idiots. Either Mary was a virgin or she was not. This guy Natural Citizen has the balls to come here and claim Mary wasn't a virgin and that you all got that part of the story wrong. And of course you don't mind him being wrong because in your religion, it doesn't matter what the fuck you believe. Just believe Jesus is the lord and savior and you're in the club. All the rest is just nonsense anyways. The differences between Catholics and Protestants don't matter.

So you aren't going to challenge him on his comment that Mary wasn't really a virgin? Can he truly be considered a Christian if he believes that's not true? I don't think so. He's a cherry picker.

God this is frustrating. You guys don't even actually care if Mary was actually a virgin or if Jesus actually walked on water. Pathetic religion. You just don't see it because you are involved in it.

And we know you can argue anything Ding. Even the most ridiculous things you can argue.

What part of I am happy for others to believe what they want did you not understand?

Diversity of thought is a good thing.

I have said this so many times I would have figured you would have actually believed i believed it by now.

 

[ding]

So you are blaming religion which is nothing more than a tool instead of man, imperfect man who is never free of defects?

Well, religion is merely the practice of one's religion.

All I'm saying is that there's the teaching of Jesus and there are the teachings of the Church. The Church teaches history in a way that's solely representative of their vested interests.

They burned the writings they didn't like and they burned its authors at the stake.

What was the Church establishment so afraid of that they felt they had to do that? Were they that afraid of losing control of society? Gosh.

Do you know much about the inquisition?

 

[ding]

Was it destroyed?

Constantine destroyed most of the early writings and burned people at the stake for heresy.

In this case it was omitted. Do you know what the Gospel of Thomas is, ding?

Yes, I have even read the pop up book version.

Okay, what did you take from it? Because of all of the 45 books or so that were omitted, I shared that one with you specifically and specifically for you. It's a specific book which speaks directly to things that science cannot teach us yet we can learn it from the book. Yet the Bishops chose to omit it.

To make my point about context, do you know the parable of the Good Samaritan?

 

[Natural Citizen]

I guess you just swallowed and repeated that bullshit without really having the testicular fortitude to back it up and say proudly that this is what you believe.

Earlier you were talking like you were the expert and all these other Christians were just ignorant. Now you seem to be backpeddling. I don't think you want to try to defend that comment that you don't think Mary was really a virgin. That would be like saying you believe Jesus was just a really good dude. Do you know who believes that? Muslims and Jews.

In your defense, I don't think Mary was a virgin either.

Well, the discussion is very fragmented. When discussing chronological accounts like these there really does need to be a starting point.

In terms of Mary, did I not provide the correct Greek and Latin translations? Did you check me? I think you'll find that I'm correct.

 

[buttercup]

sealybobo, I get where you’re coming from. I was a nonbeliever too, for many, many years.

I understand that from your perspective, only gullible or foolish people believe certain stories in the Bible about miracles, or other things that seem impossible or crazy.

But I think what many nonbelievers have not have considered is that God purposely chose to do things a certain way - in a way that would require faith, a child-like faith and trust. (Matt 18:3)

Why would God do that? This scripture sums up the answer, in my view.

“But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and he chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.” 1 Corinthians 1:27​

I did a blog post on this topic. If you want to read it here it is: Why Did God Choose the Foolish and the Weak?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Do you know much about the inquisition?

I can likely hold a conversation.

 

[Natural Citizen]

To make my point about context, do you know the parable of the Good Samaritan?

Yeah. Why?

 

[ding]

Do you know much about the inquisition?

I can likely hold a conversation.

Ok, can you tell me what led to it and why it happened? In a nutshell?

 

[Natural Citizen]

That brings up a good point, ding. Nobody represents the people anymore.