Is Jesus Christ a Socialist?

[alang1216]

Jesus had no economic theory beyond his saying we should give away all our material possessions. He expected the end times to be imminent so economics didn't matter.

Really? That’s what you believe he meant?

What else would an apocalyptic Jew mean?

He put the man to a test. Otherwise you’d have to ignore the hundreds of references in the OT and NT to wealth. You can’t parse the Bible to suit your purposes.

The question was only about Jesus. There are many voices in the OT and NT, not just one.

You can’t separate the OT and the NT. Besides, there are plenty of examples in the NT which describe the same thing.

Maybe you can't separate the OT and the NT but I have no trouble seeing there are numerous voices there. You may like to think that since it is all the word of one God it is a consistent message, I don't believe that. I see it as a work of many men that spoke many languages, lived in different times and places, and believed many different things.

 

[alang1216]

The Bible teaches that charity should come from the family, church and the heart, not the friggin Roman government.

The people that wrote the New Testament hated the government.

Yet both the Jews and Christians opted for a theocracy whenever they could.

 

[BlindBoo]

No. He doesn't exist on earth today, so how could he be?

What are you saying? Thousands named Jesus cross the border every day and all seem to be socialist.

But that's Jesus De la Cruz Rodriguez..... not Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[BlindBoo]

assuming the Bible has an accurate depiction of what He said?

I don't think about it much anymore. I'll go with something else.

Was Jesus A Socialist, Capitalist, Or Something Else?

 

[ding]

Really? That’s what you believe he meant?

What else would an apocalyptic Jew mean?

He put the man to a test. Otherwise you’d have to ignore the hundreds of references in the OT and NT to wealth. You can’t parse the Bible to suit your purposes.

The question was only about Jesus. There are many voices in the OT and NT, not just one.

You can’t separate the OT and the NT. Besides, there are plenty of examples in the NT which describe the same thing.

Maybe you can't separate the OT and the NT but I have no trouble seeing there are numerous voices there. You may like to think that since it is all the word of one God it is a consistent message, I don't believe that. I see it as a work of many men that spoke many languages, lived in different times and places, and believed many different things.

You think I think God wrote the Bible?

as harmonica would say...

hahahahahahahahahaha ha.

 

[DGS49]

Jesus taught his disciples that material goods should be shared within the community. "Sell all your possessions and give [the proceeds] to the poor."

But this is a far cry from "socialism." His version applies to a small community, all of whose members are included voluntarily, and may leave at any time. It is analogous to a convent or a monastery today, or to "order" priests who take the traditional vows of Poverty Chastity, and Obedience, and get their sustenance from the order.

When a Sovereign imposes "socialism" it CONFISCATES private property by force, and holds it in the name of the government, according to the wishes of leadership, not the community.

Jesus was not a socialist in the sense that the term is used today.

 

[alang1216]

What else would an apocalyptic Jew mean?

He put the man to a test. Otherwise you’d have to ignore the hundreds of references in the OT and NT to wealth. You can’t parse the Bible to suit your purposes.

The question was only about Jesus. There are many voices in the OT and NT, not just one.

You can’t separate the OT and the NT. Besides, there are plenty of examples in the NT which describe the same thing.

Maybe you can't separate the OT and the NT but I have no trouble seeing there are numerous voices there. You may like to think that since it is all the word of one God it is a consistent message, I don't believe that. I see it as a work of many men that spoke many languages, lived in different times and places, and believed many different things.

You think I think God wrote the Bible?

as harmonica would say...

hahahahahahahahahaha ha.

My bad. Who then wrote the Bible?

 

[BreezeWood]

how about robin hood ...

was he a savior or a criminal, the 1st century version portrayed by the religious itinerant has been a message from time immemorial or at least since that century to the present - never much more than a fleeting wave stepped on repeatedly by the self coined righteous religious zealots.

the version they, the desert religions can not live without ...

 

[ding]

He put the man to a test. Otherwise you’d have to ignore the hundreds of references in the OT and NT to wealth. You can’t parse the Bible to suit your purposes.

The question was only about Jesus. There are many voices in the OT and NT, not just one.

You can’t separate the OT and the NT. Besides, there are plenty of examples in the NT which describe the same thing.

Maybe you can't separate the OT and the NT but I have no trouble seeing there are numerous voices there. You may like to think that since it is all the word of one God it is a consistent message, I don't believe that. I see it as a work of many men that spoke many languages, lived in different times and places, and believed many different things.

You think I think God wrote the Bible?

as harmonica would say...

hahahahahahahahahaha ha.

My bad. Who then wrote the Bible?

Lots of different writers. Isn’t that something you can google?

 

[alang1216]

My bad. Who then wrote the Bible?

Lots of different writers. Isn’t that something you can google?

No need since we agree. I guess what I'm asking you is, what part did God play?

 

[ding]

My bad. Who then wrote the Bible?

Lots of different writers. Isn’t that something you can google?

No need since we agree. I guess what I'm asking you is, what part did God play?

Good question. Revelation. If we start with the premise that spirit created the material world and created laws of nature which not only predestined beings that know and create to arise but also to mold or evolve their level of consciousness, then it is not a giant leap to believe that besides the constant feedback we receive from the universe that either correct or reinforce our behaviors that we would also receive revelations from the spirit which connects but is not a part of the material world.

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

So it is for good reason that we should keep an open mind about the possibility of the creator of space and time communicating with his creatures outside of the laws of nature which act as compensating and reinforcing laws of behavior. It would be illogical to believe that the intelligence behind creation of space and time would not provide some level of instruction or guidance. The question is what would that actually look like. And for that answer we must look at our own experiences as a guide to the answer.

From my own personal experiences I have had revelations that when they popped into my head I instantly recognized that they were true. Mind you I am not describing religious revelations, but ordinary everyday kind of things about my ordinary everyday issues that I am confronted with. Usually they happen in the morning when I am in that halfway state of being asleep and being awake. There is only one time when we are not conscious of self and that is when we are asleep. So it makes perfect sense to me that that is the time I am most receptive to the spirit which binds us but is not a part of the material world. This is how I believe revelations work. And this is how I believe ancient man received his revelations. Not a burning bush, or an angel appearing, but ordinary men being in a state of mind receptive to the spirit that binds us but is not a part of the material world. In this light, I can imagine ancient man having an image of how creation of space and time unfolded. Not having the scientific knowledge that we have today, he captured the allegorical account of creation in his own way. So while others may nit pick the exact details or sequence because it does not satisfy their modern view of the world, they miss out on the bigger picture which is that ancient man pretty much nailed what we know today. Specifically, that the universe did have a beginning and that man is a product of the universe.

And lastly, let's not forget or diminish the importance of ancient man believing so highly in these accounts that he passed them down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years. I can't think of anything which is comparable. It seems to me that it would be a travesty to dismiss these accounts as fairy tales.

 

[alang1216]

My bad. Who then wrote the Bible?

Lots of different writers. Isn’t that something you can google?

No need since we agree. I guess what I'm asking you is, what part did God play?

Good question. Revelation. If we start with the premise that spirit created the material world and created laws of nature which not only predestined beings that know and create to arise but also to mold or evolve their level of consciousness, then it is not a giant leap to believe that besides the constant feedback we receive from the universe that either correct or reinforce our behaviors that we would also receive revelations from the spirit which connects but is not a part of the material world.

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

So it is for good reason that we should keep an open mind about the possibility of the creator of space and time communicating with his creatures outside of the laws of nature which act as compensating and reinforcing laws of behavior. It would be illogical to believe that the intelligence behind creation of space and time would not provide some level of instruction or guidance. The question is what would that actually look like. And for that answer we must look at our own experiences as a guide to the answer.

From my own personal experiences I have had revelations that when they popped into my head I instantly recognized that they were true. Mind you I am not describing religious revelations, but ordinary everyday kind of things about my ordinary everyday issues that I am confronted with. Usually they happen in the morning when I am in that halfway state of being asleep and being awake. There is only one time when we are not conscious of self and that is when we are asleep. So it makes perfect sense to me that that is the time I am most receptive to the spirit which binds us but is not a part of the material world. This is how I believe revelations work. And this is how I believe ancient man received his revelations. Not a burning bush, or an angel appearing, but ordinary men being in a state of mind receptive to the spirit that binds us but is not a part of the material world. In this light, I can imagine ancient man having an image of how creation of space and time unfolded. Not having the scientific knowledge that we have today, he captured the allegorical account of creation in his own way. So while others may nit pick the exact details or sequence because it does not satisfy their modern view of the world, they miss out on the bigger picture which is that ancient man pretty much nailed what we know today. Specifically, that the universe did have a beginning and that man is a product of the universe.

And lastly, let's not forget or diminish the importance of ancient man believing so highly in these accounts that he passed them down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years. I can't think of anything which is comparable. It seems to me that it would be a travesty to dismiss these accounts as fairy tales.

A fine theory, unfortunately it comes completely without evidence. Before the Bible there were plenty of oral tradditons that were passed down from generation to generation. The Iliad & Odyssey, Gilgamesh, Valhalla, Hercules, etc. Man has always craved a good story, and I see no reason to think these examples are any less real than the Bible stories.

 

[ding]

My bad. Who then wrote the Bible?

Lots of different writers. Isn’t that something you can google?

No need since we agree. I guess what I'm asking you is, what part did God play?

Good question. Revelation. If we start with the premise that spirit created the material world and created laws of nature which not only predestined beings that know and create to arise but also to mold or evolve their level of consciousness, then it is not a giant leap to believe that besides the constant feedback we receive from the universe that either correct or reinforce our behaviors that we would also receive revelations from the spirit which connects but is not a part of the material world.

The data overwhelmingly shows that man is a spiritual being. It is for good reason that David Foster Wallace said that we all worship something and the only choice in the matter is what we choose to worship. We are literally hardwired for it. Throughout history every society has overwhelmingly held the belief that man is more than just matter and that there is a higher power than man. When we look at the data today we see that more and more people are rejecting organized religion but have not abandoned their belief that they are more than just matter or that there is a force which connects or binds us all. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

So it is for good reason that we should keep an open mind about the possibility of the creator of space and time communicating with his creatures outside of the laws of nature which act as compensating and reinforcing laws of behavior. It would be illogical to believe that the intelligence behind creation of space and time would not provide some level of instruction or guidance. The question is what would that actually look like. And for that answer we must look at our own experiences as a guide to the answer.

From my own personal experiences I have had revelations that when they popped into my head I instantly recognized that they were true. Mind you I am not describing religious revelations, but ordinary everyday kind of things about my ordinary everyday issues that I am confronted with. Usually they happen in the morning when I am in that halfway state of being asleep and being awake. There is only one time when we are not conscious of self and that is when we are asleep. So it makes perfect sense to me that that is the time I am most receptive to the spirit which binds us but is not a part of the material world. This is how I believe revelations work. And this is how I believe ancient man received his revelations. Not a burning bush, or an angel appearing, but ordinary men being in a state of mind receptive to the spirit that binds us but is not a part of the material world. In this light, I can imagine ancient man having an image of how creation of space and time unfolded. Not having the scientific knowledge that we have today, he captured the allegorical account of creation in his own way. So while others may nit pick the exact details or sequence because it does not satisfy their modern view of the world, they miss out on the bigger picture which is that ancient man pretty much nailed what we know today. Specifically, that the universe did have a beginning and that man is a product of the universe.

And lastly, let's not forget or diminish the importance of ancient man believing so highly in these accounts that he passed them down orally from generation to generation for thousands of years. I can't think of anything which is comparable. It seems to me that it would be a travesty to dismiss these accounts as fairy tales.

A fine theory, unfortunately it comes completely without evidence. Before the Bible there were plenty of oral tradditons that were passed down from generation to generation. The Iliad & Odyssey, Gilgamesh, Valhalla, Hercules, etc. Man has always craved a good story, and I see no reason to think these examples are any less real than the Bible stories.

That’s why we can test it for ourselves through a relationship with the Creator. So my experiences are my evidence.

 

[alang1216]

That’s why we can test it for ourselves through a relationship with the Creator. So my experiences are my evidence.

I don't doubt your honesty or sincerity, however your experiences are not scientific or, at least to me, convincing. Would you be surprised if a Muslim gave me the exact same answer?

 

[Picaro]

Jesus taught his disciples that material goods should be shared within the community. "Sell all your possessions and give [the proceeds] to the poor."

But this is a far cry from "socialism." His version applies to a small community, all of whose members are included voluntarily, and may leave at any time. It is analogous to a convent or a monastery today, or to "order" priests who take the traditional vows of Poverty Chastity, and Obedience, and get their sustenance from the order.

When a Sovereign imposes "socialism" it CONFISCATES private property by force, and holds it in the name of the government, according to the wishes of leadership, not the community.

Jesus was not a socialist in the sense that the term is used today.

Yes. It was voluntary, and each according to their means. A couple were even put to death for being vain and trying to gain favor by theirs, I believe, but I haven't looked it up. Paul kept working at his trade as a tentmaker as he traveled, as did other Apostles. The system they implemented so well is what impressed Constantine the most, and he directed the pagan cults to try and do better, but they failed, so he put the Christians in charge of the Empire's social services program, a secular one; he never made Christianity a state religion, just a recognized one and favored by the Emperor. The powers were purely secular origin; becoming the state religion came later, and never entirely took hold everywhere; paganism was alive and well in the rural areas in every country, right up to the present day, in fact. 'Withc burnings' and that rubbish were pagan practices and superstitions, and denounced as so by Catholic scholars and the well educated, though those were few in number, and like with Democrats and other deviants today the mobs usually ruled.

 

[Picaro]

I made a video discussing my thoughts on if Jesus is a socialist. Let me know what you think of my arguments down below, and what do you think? Is Jesus a socialist? What evidence do you have that He is or is not?

Jesus had no economic theory beyond his saying we should give away all our material possessions. He expected the end times to be imminent so economics didn't matter.

Really? That’s what you believe he meant?

What else would an apocalyptic Jew mean?

He put the man to a test. Otherwise you’d have to ignore the hundreds of references in the OT and NT to wealth. You can’t parse the Bible to suit your purposes.

One also can't even remotely begin to fulfill the duties of a church that is asked to take care of the widows, the ill, and the orphans, etc., if they were all ordered to be dumpster divers and beggars, as some of the moron 'atheist' cultists keep claiming Christians are supposed to be.

But on the right wing, the nutjobs also like to forget the verses where it says workmen are worthy of their hire." They just like the 'sweat of their brows' part, as long as it isn't their brow that's sweating and they're getting a big cut of the bennies for 'investing n stuff'.

 

[ding]

That’s why we can test it for ourselves through a relationship with the Creator. So my experiences are my evidence.

I don't doubt your honesty or sincerity, however your experiences are not scientific or, at least to me, convincing. Would you be surprised if a Muslim gave me the exact same answer?

No. Why would I? There’s only one God. I couldn’t care less what name you call him. I would actually be surprised if anyone who had a relationship with God gave you a different answer.

there is nothing more scientific than to test something. The best way to experience anything is first hand.

 

[ding]

I made a video discussing my thoughts on if Jesus is a socialist. Let me know what you think of my arguments down below, and what do you think? Is Jesus a socialist? What evidence do you have that He is or is not?

Jesus had no economic theory beyond his saying we should give away all our material possessions. He expected the end times to be imminent so economics didn't matter.

Really? That’s what you believe he meant?

What else would an apocalyptic Jew mean?

He put the man to a test. Otherwise you’d have to ignore the hundreds of references in the OT and NT to wealth. You can’t parse the Bible to suit your purposes.

One also can't even remotely begin to fulfill the duties of a church that is asked to take care of the widows, the ill, and the orphans, etc., if they were all ordered to be dumpster divers and beggars, as some of the moron 'atheist' cultists keep claiming Christians are supposed to be.

But on the right wing, the nutjobs also like to forget the verses where it says workmen are worthy of their hire." They just like the 'sweat of their brows' part, as long as it isn't their brow that's sweating and they're getting a big cut of the bennies for 'investing n stuff'.

There is no doubt in my mind that we do have an obligation. We are called to be stewards. The most effective way of helping others is through the principle of subsidiarity.

So yes, I agree with you.

 

[alang1216]

That’s why we can test it for ourselves through a relationship with the Creator. So my experiences are my evidence.

I don't doubt your honesty or sincerity, however your experiences are not scientific or, at least to me, convincing. Would you be surprised if a Muslim gave me the exact same answer?

No. Why would I? There’s only one God. I couldn’t care less what name you call him. I would actually be surprised if anyone who had a relationship with God gave you a different answer.

there is nothing more scientific than to test something. The best way to experience anything is first hand.

Think of me as the control. If we meet in heaven I'll admit you were right.

 

[ding]

That’s why we can test it for ourselves through a relationship with the Creator. So my experiences are my evidence.

I don't doubt your honesty or sincerity, however your experiences are not scientific or, at least to me, convincing. Would you be surprised if a Muslim gave me the exact same answer?

No. Why would I? There’s only one God. I couldn’t care less what name you call him. I would actually be surprised if anyone who had a relationship with God gave you a different answer.

there is nothing more scientific than to test something. The best way to experience anything is first hand.

Think of me as the control. If we meet in heaven I'll admit you were right.

To each his own. It’s not about heaven anyway. That’s a popular misconception. It’s about a way of life; a way of being.