CDZ Is it time for Socialism in the U.S.?

TGN

Pacifist Egalitarian
Apr 11, 2014
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Between Kshama Sawant's reelection to the Seattle council and the phenomenal popularity of the Sanders campaign it seems many in the U.S. electorate are now more opened minded to the idea of overtly socialists candidates. What can we expect in the future? Also there seems to be some dispute over what socialism is. Some might define it as state control over production and distribution while others describe it as either social or workers' control. Whichever, how do you define it and what developments do you expect for the future?

George Orwell gave his own first-hand observation of socialism in action during the Spanish Civil War description:

"I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life-snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.-had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master...One had breathed the air of equality. I am well aware that it is now the fashion to deny that Socialism has anything to do with equality. In every country in the world a huge tribe of party-hacks and sleek little professors are busy 'proving' that Socialism means no more than a planned state-capitalism with the grab-motive left intact. But fortunately there also exists a vision of Socialism quite different from this." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia
 
The free stuff would be flowing, and all the short term memory folks would be in hog heaven talking about how great it is that we finally have president who is helping the people. Sanders would be a hero of unheard of proportions. After a while, Silently, big business would be leaving America as the tax burden placed on them would not allow them to make a profit and or keep top notch people on the payroll and eventually they would have massive layoffs and move the whole operations to business friendly countries.

Meanwhile, one day Americans would wake up to bread lines, massive crime, and if people still had their guns (which they will) fiefdoms popping up all over the countryside. Starvation, disease, just to name a few would be the norm. All because the government was corrupted by eggheaded fools who care not for posterity. Goodbye USA.
 
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"Is it time for Socialism in the U.S.?"

One cannot expect ‘clean debate’ when the thread premise fails as a loaded question fallacy.

One can expect clean debate in the clean debate zone. Rule breaking is for the liberals.
 
Socialism already permeates American society. This has been discussed countless times, and the reaction is usually "the military and the highways and public libraries and police and fire departments...and...and...and...are not socialism!" with no effort to explain why.
 
If you ask anyone who's been living under socialism for a decent span of time, or has studied history, they'd tell you 'no'.

If you ask anyone who has never experienced it, and doesn't study history at all they would tell you 'yes'.

There's a reason Soviet Russia prevented/prevents anyone from leaving the country. If they allowed people to leave, there would be very few people left for the government to treat as property. There's a reason people aren't allowed to talk about it there, it's because if you asked any Russians, they would tell you how awful it is. No, it is never time for Socialism. That's like asking "is it time for cancer?".
 
@ C_Clayton_Jones

"'One cannot expect ‘clean debate’ when the thread premise fails as a loaded question fallacy.'"

Or maybe in your case one just isn't equipped to deal with the subject realistically and in depth and would rather resort to flippant, meaningless dismissals or in miketx's case overwrought polemics and crude generalizations.
 
Socialism is unconstitutional and it's adherents be re-educated. 'Nuff said.
No, not "'Nuff said", you still have to qualify that. How is employee ownership unconstitutional and the democratic process via We The People, unconstitutional? Do you even know what socialism is beyond right-wing disinfo?
 
NO. It's time for America to give up on this ridiculous idea that EVERYONE deserves a vote no matter how stupid, disinterested, univested, and un-American they may be. It's time to rewrite the voting provisions in the US Constitution to allow ONLY land-owning, educated (high school grad), and competent (yearly exam required) CITIZENS to vote
 
No, not "'Nuff said", you still have to qualify that. How is employee ownership unconstitutional and the democratic process via We The People, unconstitutional? Do you even know what socialism is beyond right-wing disinfo?
Russia does, and wishes they didn't. Well, except the government, since they own everyone and everything.
 
polemics and crude generalizations = telling the truth to some.
 
We've had all things that Orwell warned of of Nineteen Eighty-Four since 2002. It's not like there are any boogeymen left to scare people with. It will happen gradually.
 
Socialism for the top 1% has been so wildly successful ever since Lincoln and the Republicans imposed it on the nation that it's only natural for the other 99% to want it for themselves, so why not? they've made it look pretty good. Big business likes it; just look at the amount of investment they've poured into Red China, viet Nam, Mexico, and other socialist countries.
 
Socialism already permeates American society. This has been discussed countless times, and the reaction is usually "the military and the highways and public libraries and police and fire departments...and...and...and...are not socialism!" with no effort to explain why.
Some, like libertarian socialists, might equate those with statism or state ownership rather popular or social ownership.s
 
Socialism is the means to control the majority, by a few, promising a Utopia that doesn't exist. If the US wants to follow that path then by all means knock yourselves out.
 
Socialism for the top 1% has been so wildly successful ever since Lincoln and the Republicans imposed it on the nation that it's only natural for the other 99% to want it for themselves, so why not? they've made it look pretty good. Big business likes it; just look at the amount of investment they've poured into Red China, viet Nam, Mexico, and other socialist countries.
Ohhh, you're a Bernie Sanders supporter. That explains everything. Yes, Sanders did say that, and as usual, he's a delusional old man. He also said that Verizon didn't pay taxes... then they released their tax records. He also references the "Hands up, don't shoot" myth, and the Man Made Climate Change myth.
 
Socialism for the top 1% has been so wildly successful ever since Lincoln and the Republicans imposed it on the nation that it's only natural for the other 99% to want it for themselves, so why not? they've made it look pretty good. Big business likes it; just look at the amount of investment they've poured into Red China, viet Nam, Mexico, and other socialist countries.
Ohhh, you're a Bernie Sanders supporter. That explains everything. Yes, Sanders did say that, and as usual, he's a delusional old man. He also said that Verizon didn't pay taxes... then they released their tax records. He also references the "Hands up, don't shoot" myth, and the Man Made Climate Change myth.

No, I'm not; I was being a little sarcastic. But the wealthy benefit from a lot of socialist policies written just for them, whether the 'right' wants to admit it or not. 'The Corporate Personhood' scam is a major example.
 

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