Is it "bigotry" to think a religion is stupid, silly or evil?

[del]

Joseph SMith made up stories to con less smart people out of their money and screw teenage girls. That's just a bit more malicious, don't you think? And, yes, I want to know if Romney really thinks that's true.

The point that you are clearly missing is that Mormonism has whacky ideas and so does Christianity and so does every other religion. People selectively choose what they want to believe in religion, so holding some religious people to one standard and other religious people to others - "All Mormons believe all the whacky Mormon stuff while all Christians do not" - is a blatant and nonsensical double standard.

Bigotry is not disagreeing with someone. Bigotry is assuming that all members of a group act a specific way and being intolerant of all the individuals in the group because of your own preconceived views. Making lists of people whom you know are duplicitous and not doing business with them is not bigotry. Making lists of people whom you assume are duplicitous because they are Mormons and not doing business with them is bigotry.

Wow, deftly avoided my point again. AMAZING!

It isn't JUST that the ideas are 'whacky', but that they are LIES.

Joseph Smith is a LIAR.

Mormons are perpetrating LIES.

What part of LIES don't you get?

It's a lie. I have no use for people who believe in them, I have no use for people who help perpetrate them.

maybe we'd find it easier to believe if we could actually see you stamping your feet, instead of just imagining it.



bigotboi seems angry

 

[alan1]

Let me give you one agnostics view of "silly" religions, Joe...

If believing in something brings comfort to others? I don't have a problem with that. If it causes others to want to kill me because I don't believe in what they do then I do have a problem. I would have had a problem with Catholicism during the Spanish Inquisition...I have no problem with them now. I have no idea at all why you're so anti-Mormon.

Springboarding off the part in red.

I'm an atheist. I have no problem with my religious friends of all faiths because they have their religion for themselves. They use their religion to help themselves and yes, for comfort at times. The vast majority of religious people use their religion as an aid to better their lives, not as a crutch to lean on or a weapon to wield.

 

[Cammmpbell]

No, obvious to anyone with a lick of sense.

I'm assuming you're not a Mormon, so you don't think Joseph Smith was talking to God, either.

So why do you pretend that people who think he was deserve some kind of respect for believing a falsehood?

because the last time i checked, i wasn't joseph smith or god, and i don't judge others because of their beliefs or lack thereof.

obviously

bigot

Sophistry.

here's the thing. The only reason why you defend Romney's silly beliefs is you think he's going to do things you want done if the country has a collective brain fart and elects him.

You are willing to make a Faustian bargain because you don't like what Obama's doing.

I'm not.

If someone is a whacked out cultist with insane beliefs, I don't want him anywhere near the button that launches the nukes.

Yeah...he has his magic underwear and the rest of us have to do the best we can.

 

[JoeB131]

I like having the ability to fire people who don't perform up to my standards as well. So do you...or at least you should. It has nothing to do with pushing people around and everything to do with maintaining or establishing our freedom of choice.

Well, I've never enjoyed firing vendors or employees, and I've done both. But if you really think you are going to win an argument with an insurance company, I submit you've never got into a pissing match with an insurance company before.

The former is a twist on his meaning. You assume that if he wasn't running for office he wouldn't have cared. He never said that. That is you projecting a given meaning to his comments that are not supported by his words. The latter....come on, Joe. As I said...you're no dummy. You know damn well he said there are programs in place for the poor and if they require fixing they will be fixed. But right now the middle class as a driver of the economy is the most important thing to address. Again you project callousness where none exists, or at least cannot be supported by his full statement.

I don't know, the statements sounded pretty callous to me. Maybe he didn't mean them the way they sounded. I mean, maybe he lives in some alternate universe where the safety net really is adequate. And frankly, I kind of don't take his crocadile tears for the middle class seriously because he's destroyed so many good middle class jobs and replaced them with McJobs.

Which of course, is what knocks people from the MIddle Class to the Safety net.

Look...if you invest money in someone else's business venture you want it to succeed so you can get a good return on your investment. If it becomes clear that it is not going to succeed you are going to do what you can to get your investment back and minimize your losses. That's typical. That's what happens all over this country whether it's on a large scale or a small scale. That's exactly what I would do, and I imagine if you were in that situation it's exactly what you would do.

Point on this one. I don't think this was a case of "We really tried to make this work, but it doesn't." I think that his goal from day one was to loot these places. That's what Bain did.
Vulture capitalism... Again, at the risk of making Del scream like a little girl, you should really look into his history with AmPad and what Bain did there.

 

[Newby]

There are aspects of every religion that are rather far fetched...I was raised in the Congregational sect of the Protestant church which believes that sin can't be forgiven and if one commits a bad enough sin that you will be going to Hell for it. Catholics on the other hand believe that sin can be absolved through confession. So which of those two is "batshit"...the one the believes that you are damned to hell no matter what or the one that believes that you have a "get out of jail free card" by confessing your sins?

I judge Mormons by how they act in the world not by some obscure religious tenent that they probably find amusing themselves.

Actually, I would say that the Catholic version is more batshit, to be honest. I think if there was a God, some sins ARE unforgivable (rape and murder being the obvious ones).

The thing about Mormons is that they don't have the option of thinking their own beliefs are quaint or odd. Most catholics I know ignore the Church on Birth control or think Transubstantiation is silly.

Mormonism is a cult. They don't have that option of picking their beliefs like they are in a Cafeteria. You reject the beliefs, you are out and your own family is supposed to shun you. When I stopped being Catholic 30 years ago, my family still maintained ties. They aren't happy with my decision, but they respect it.

And I guess this is where I have to give Catholicism it's props. They've figured out it's a business, and the purpose is getting the chumps to give up their money.

That makes them better than you then.

 

[Newby]

When I point out the truly stupid beliefs of the dumber Abrahamic religions, I get the typical jerks who can't really defend the point screaming "bigot" because I don't respect their silly beliefs.

The two biggest offenders being Mormons and Catholics.

I find the latter kind of Hilarious because I was raised Catholic, most of my relatives are practicing Catholics, and members of my family have worked in Church related enterprises for three generations.

But to the point, is pointing out the silliness of a belief offensive.

If you told me that you believed in Martians or Bigfoot or Santa Claus, and I responded with science and reason why these are silly beliefs, you probably wouldn't try to call me a bigot for not respecting your beliefs. You might even be inclined to say, "Yeah, when you put it that way, those things are kind of silly."

But if you believe a man in a dress is talking to God, or that that God told Joseph Smith to go out and have sex with dozens of women, and I point out that is really stupid or silly.

BIGOT!!!!

When I point out that there are things in the history of these religions that indicate that there really isn't anything holy about them...

BIGOT!!!

To make it quite simple. Silly things do not become less silly if you dress them up in vestments and call them a religion..

Sorry, still silly no matter how you dress it up.

Pointing out a 'silly belief' is quite different from labeling the person who believes it as being stupid. Intelligent people have held incorrect beliefs from the dawn of man. And you really can't prove anything about the correctness or incorrectness of a person's religious beliefs. Until you can, you should consider yourself a bigot any time you label a person stupid based upon what you, yourself, merely believe but cannot prove.

That isn't true. A person's belief that the Earth is 6,000 years old (cuz it sez so in duh bibble) can be proven wrong. And yeah a person who believes in Genesis as literally told would be a stupid person. I have no problems being a bigot to stupidity. Dumb ideas shouldn't get special protection just because they're cloaked as a religion.

The Bible never states the age of the Earth.

 

[Cammmpbell]

Pointing out a 'silly belief' is quite different from labeling the person who believes it as being stupid. Intelligent people have held incorrect beliefs from the dawn of man. And you really can't prove anything about the correctness or incorrectness of a person's religious beliefs. Until you can, you should consider yourself a bigot any time you label a person stupid based upon what you, yourself, merely believe but cannot prove.

That isn't true. A person's belief that the Earth is 6,000 years old (cuz it sez so in duh bibble) can be proven wrong. And yeah a person who believes in Genesis as literally told would be a stupid person. I have no problems being a bigot to stupidity. Dumb ideas shouldn't get special protection just because they're cloaked as a religion.

The Bible never states the age of the Earth.

To state that simply evades and avoids the obvious facts associated with the known development of mankind and his civili ation. 'Course that's what those who accept the foolishness of ancient god worship do anyway.

I love this guy...yes, the fact that he was one of the most intelligent humans who ever lived does cause me to pay extra attention.

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature." ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

 

[HUGGY]

Is it "bigotry" to think a religion is stupid, silly or evil?

No. It is a public service to think it and to speak it.

 

[Newby]

That isn't true. A person's belief that the Earth is 6,000 years old (cuz it sez so in duh bibble) can be proven wrong. And yeah a person who believes in Genesis as literally told would be a stupid person. I have no problems being a bigot to stupidity. Dumb ideas shouldn't get special protection just because they're cloaked as a religion.

The Bible never states the age of the Earth.

To state that simply evades and avoids the obvious facts associated with the known development of mankind and his civili ation. 'Course that's what those who accept the foolishness of ancient god worship do anyway.

I love this guy...yes, the fact that he was one of the most intelligent humans who ever lived does cause me to pay extra attention.

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature." ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

No, to state "The Bible never states the age of the Earth" is fact, period. If not, please tell me the chapter and verse where it definitively states the age of the Earth.

 

[Cammmpbell]

The Bible never states the age of the Earth.

To state that simply evades and avoids the obvious facts associated with the known development of mankind and his civili ation. 'Course that's what those who accept the foolishness of ancient god worship do anyway.

I love this guy...yes, the fact that he was one of the most intelligent humans who ever lived does cause me to pay extra attention.

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature." ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

No, to state "The Bible never states the age of the Earth" is fact, period. If not, please tell me the chapter and verse where it definitively states the age of the Earth.

LOL!!!

Quote to me the verse and chapter of anything which binds the ancient god worship with reality.......ain't gonna happen

 

[del]

To state that simply evades and avoids the obvious facts associated with the known development of mankind and his civili ation. 'Course that's what those who accept the foolishness of ancient god worship do anyway.

I love this guy...yes, the fact that he was one of the most intelligent humans who ever lived does cause me to pay extra attention.

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature." ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

No, to state "The Bible never states the age of the Earth" is fact, period. If not, please tell me the chapter and verse where it definitively states the age of the Earth.

LOL!!!

Quote to me the verse and chapter of anything which binds the ancient god worship with reality.......ain't gonna happen

so, as usual, you've got nothing

 

[Toro]

Ampad!

 

[Sky Dancer]

When I point out the truly stupid beliefs of the dumber Abrahamic religions, I get the typical jerks who can't really defend the point screaming "bigot" because I don't respect their silly beliefs.

The two biggest offenders being Mormons and Catholics.

I find the latter kind of Hilarious because I was raised Catholic, most of my relatives are practicing Catholics, and members of my family have worked in Church related enterprises for three generations.

But to the point, is pointing out the silliness of a belief offensive.

If you told me that you believed in Martians or Bigfoot or Santa Claus, and I responded with science and reason why these are silly beliefs, you probably wouldn't try to call me a bigot for not respecting your beliefs. You might even be inclined to say, "Yeah, when you put it that way, those things are kind of silly."

But if you believe a man in a dress is talking to God, or that that God told Joseph Smith to go out and have sex with dozens of women, and I point out that is really stupid or silly.

BIGOT!!!!

When I point out that there are things in the history of these religions that indicate that there really isn't anything holy about them...

BIGOT!!!

To make it quite simple. Silly things do not become less silly if you dress them up in vestments and call them a religion..

Sorry, still silly no matter how you dress it up.

Why is it you want to point out other people beliefs as stupid or silly?

Some people think that Vajrayana Buddhism is stupid or silly because it involves meditational deity practice. Ever single part of a sadhana is rich with meaning and symbolism, but only if you study and practice it. If you practice the Vajrayana with joyous effort you will attain siddhis.

There are saint's and holy men and women in this world. I'm reading a book about Anandamayima, a Hindu saint who died in 1982.

My avatar is a photo of a Tibetan Buddhist holy man.

What makes him holy? His mind is completely free of defilements.

 

[JoeB131]

Why is it you want to point out other people beliefs as stupid or silly?

Some people think that Vajrayana Buddhism is stupid or silly because it involves meditational deity practice. Ever single part of a sadhana is rich with meaning and symbolism, but only if you study and practice it.

There are saint's and holy men and women in this world. I'm reading a book about Anandamayima, a Hindu saint who died in 1982.

My avatar is a photo of a Tibetan Buddhist holy man.

What makes him holy? His mind is completely free of defilements.

I really don't know enough about Buddhism to offer an opinion, one way or the other, really.

The saint of the Catholic School I went to was a woman named St. Symphorosa... Her act of saintliness was to refuse to offer sacrifices to the Roman Gods, so she and her seven sons were executed by the Romans. Supposedly. (The story itself is probably dubious.)

I guess my problem with Saintliness is that it often involves some horrid sacrifice, that frankly, doesn't seem worth it.

Throwing yourself on a grenade to save your squad? Yeah, that's noble.

Letting people execute your kids because you won't renounce a religion? Not so much.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why is it you want to point out other people beliefs as stupid or silly?

Some people think that Vajrayana Buddhism is stupid or silly because it involves meditational deity practice. Ever single part of a sadhana is rich with meaning and symbolism, but only if you study and practice it.

There are saint's and holy men and women in this world. I'm reading a book about Anandamayima, a Hindu saint who died in 1982.

My avatar is a photo of a Tibetan Buddhist holy man.

What makes him holy? His mind is completely free of defilements.

I really don't know enough about Buddhism to offer an opinion, one way or the other, really.

The saint of the Catholic School I went to was a woman named St. Symphorosa... Her act of saintliness was to refuse to offer sacrifices to the Roman Gods, so she and her seven sons were executed by the Romans. Supposedly. (The story itself is probably dubious.)

I guess my problem with Saintliness is that it often involves some horrid sacrifice, that frankly, doesn't seem worth it.

Throwing yourself on a grenade to save your squad? Yeah, that's noble.

Letting people execute your kids because you won't renounce a religion? Not so much.

The real sacrifice for saintliness is ego.

 

[Dot Com]

Is it "bigotry" to think a religion is stupid, silly or evil?

it is when you give the other associated mythologies/fables (Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, ect...) more credence when they are as equally, if not more, preposterous.

Its like saying "Racism is wrong but sexism is A-OK "



oh yeah, "Ampad"!!!

 

[Sky Dancer]

Is it "bigotry" to think a religion is stupid, silly or evil?

it is when you give the other associated mythologies (Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, ect...) more credence when they are as equally, if not more, preposterous.



oh yeah, "Ampad"!!!

It is bigotry to consider other people's religion as stupid, silly or evil, when you know little about it. On the other hand, it's ok to be bigoted.

 

[JoeB131]

Is it "bigotry" to think a religion is stupid, silly or evil?

it is when you give the other associated mythologies/fables (Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, ect...) more credence when they are as equally, if not more, preposterous.

Its like saying "Racism is wrong but sexism is A-OK "

oh yeah, "Ampad"!!!

YOu know when Romney's the nominee, you'll be whining about AmPad louder than I ever did, Lib-boy.

Of course one set is more perposterous than the other.

The Abrahamic religions are based on real history. Most of the people mentioned in the Bible were real people. the stories might have been embellished, propagandized, and so on. But the places and people were real places and people. Again. Mostly.

They have more "Credence", as you say, because they probably really happened.

Mormonism gets no such wiggle room. Joseph Smith lied, and he knew he was lying when he did it. (Unless he was crazy, which I doubt. Too well organized.)

If I live in 1300 and tell you the world is flat because I don't know any better and it certainly looks flat from my perspective, I'm a lot less culpable if I live in 2012, know the world is round but try to convince people it's flat because I'm kind of a malicious asshole.

 

[JoeB131]

Is it "bigotry" to think a religion is stupid, silly or evil?

it is when you give the other associated mythologies (Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, ect...) more credence when they are as equally, if not more, preposterous.



oh yeah, "Ampad"!!!

It is bigotry to consider other people's religion as stupid, silly or evil, when you know little about it. On the other hand, it's ok to be bigoted.

Fair enough.

I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic schools for 12 years. I was baptized, confirmed, took communion and went to confession. Got years of religious training from Nuns and priests when we used to have enough of them to do that sort of thing.

(I once asked my neice if a nun was going to come looking for me with a wooden ruler if I didn't donate to her fundraiser. She said, "Oh, no, Uncle Joe. We don't have nuns anymore. That's why we're so bad!")

So any bias I have against Catholicism is well founded.

Now MOrmonism. Another issue. Only met Mormons that one time, enough to leave a really bad impression of them. As in, Totally creeped out and pulling knives out of my back. But most of my knowledge of their religion has been through independent study. Even read section of the Book of Mormon. (Or as Mark Twain called it, "Chloroform in Printed form.")

 

[Dot Com]

Is it "bigotry" to think a religion is stupid, silly or evil?

it is when you give the other associated mythologies/fables (Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, ect...) more credence when they are as equally, if not more, preposterous.

Its like saying "Racism is wrong but sexism is A-OK "

oh yeah, "Ampad"!!!

YOu know when Romney's the nominee, you'll be whining about AmPad louder than I ever did, Lib-boy.

Of course one set is more perposterous than the other.

The Abrahamic religions are based on real history. Most of the people mentioned in the Bible were real people. the stories might have been embellished, propagandized, and so on. But the places and people were real places and people. Again. Mostly.

They have more "Credence", as you say, because they probably really happened.

Mormonism gets no such wiggle room. Joseph Smith lied, and he knew he was lying when he did it. (Unless he was crazy, which I doubt. Too well organized.)

If I live in 1300 and tell you the world is flat because I don't know any better and it certainly looks flat from my perspective, I'm a lot less culpable if I live in 2012, know the world is round but try to convince people it's flat because I'm kind of a malicious asshole.

see what I bolded LOLOL