Is it a mosque or "cultural center"?

[manu1959]

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has claimed that the new Islamic center project “would be like putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum.” Referencing that quote, Scarborough expressed angry disdain at Gingrich’s intolerance. “I don’t know where to begin,” Scarborough said. “To suggest that someone trying to build a tolerance center for moderate Muslims in New York is the equivalent of killing six million Jews is stunning to me.”

I think Mckinnon makes a pretty good point here.

McKinnon said he believed President Obama has “done the right thing in stepping forward at this time on this issue.” He added, “Tolerance means tolerating things you don’t like, especially when you don’t like them. … I respect the President for making this move.” Watch it:

Think Progress Former Bush Adviser Mark McKinnon Rips GOP?s Stance On Mosque: ?We?re Reinforcing Al Qaeda?s Message?

Freedom of religion is what seperates us from our enemies.

The greatest ally AQ has is the Republican Party.

Certainly they are their best recruiter.

obama and co are still killing .... seems they are doing pretty well.....

 

[Chris]

I think Mckinnon makes a pretty good point here.



Think Progress Former Bush Adviser Mark McKinnon Rips GOP?s Stance On Mosque: ?We?re Reinforcing Al Qaeda?s Message?

Freedom of religion is what seperates us from our enemies.

The greatest ally AQ has is the Republican Party.

Certainly they are their best recruiter.

obama and co are still killing .... seems they are doing pretty well.....

Not really.

In 2005, 41% of the people in Pakistan supported the Taliban.

In 2009 that number had fallen to 5%.

 

[manu1959]

Freedom of religion is what seperates us from our enemies.

The greatest ally AQ has is the Republican Party.

Certainly they are their best recruiter.

obama and co are still killing .... seems they are doing pretty well.....

Not really.

In 2005, 41% of the people in Pakistan supported the Taliban.

In 2009 that number had fallen to 5%.

why is obama still killing civilians then.....

 

[frazzledgear]

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich has claimed that the new Islamic center project “would be like putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum.” Referencing that quote, Scarborough expressed angry disdain at Gingrich’s intolerance. “I don’t know where to begin,” Scarborough said. “To suggest that someone trying to build a tolerance center for moderate Muslims in New York is the equivalent of killing six million Jews is stunning to me.”

I think Mckinnon makes a pretty good point here.

McKinnon then chimed in, arguing that the debate surrounding the Cordoba House project is contrary to his party’s principles. “We may get our membership [by the GOP] revoked,” McKinnon joked. “Screw ‘em,” Scarborough responded. McKinnon then said that the GOP’s stance is “reinforcing al Qaeda’s message”:

McKINNON: Usually Republicans are forthright in defending the Constitution. And here we are, reinforcing al Qaeda’s message that we’re at war with Muslims. So we’ve got this issue; then we’ve got the 14th Amendment issue, where Republicans are saying you’re not welcome here, when we were the architects of the 14th Amendment. So, I see a bad pattern where we’re headed as a Republican Party.

McKinnon said he believed President Obama has “done the right thing in stepping forward at this time on this issue.” He added, “Tolerance means tolerating things you don’t like, especially when you don’t like them. … I respect the President for making this move.” Watch it:

Think Progress Former Bush Adviser Mark McKinnon Rips GOP?s Stance On Mosque: ?We?re Reinforcing Al Qaeda?s Message?

No Republican is saying they don't have the right to build there and that is NOT what this controversy is about. No one is talking about passing a law forbidding them from building at this site. They are saying they SHOULDN'T build it there. How that in ANY way reinforces Al Qaeda's message is only the minds of the perverted, twisted MORONS who don't know what Al Qaeda's message was in the first place. Wanting a mosque at this particular site is absolutely something Al Qaeda would want because it would be seen as a tribute to the mass murderers who carried out the act in the name of Islam. Pretending its construction would somehow subvert Al Qaeda's message is sheer wishful thinking at best -and deliberate perversion and deception at worst.

THIS controversy is no different from the controversy Carmelite nuns started when they wanted to build a convent adjoining Auschwitz. It caused outrage around the world and the strongest objections came from Jews. That controversy wasn't about whether they had the right to build there either -it was about whether they SHOULD build there. When the nuns explanation about why they wanted to build on that particular plot of land did not reduce the objections -they did the right thing and built their convent a few miles away instead. The left applauded when the nuns moved their construction site even though the teachings and religious scripture of Catholicism did not spawn those who designed the Holocaust. But NOW want a building at this site that will be used only by Muslims and for the sole benefit of Muslims at the site where those who were spawned by this religion carried out an act of mass murder? WTF?

I find it both hilarious and obscene that the left sides with this radical imam, yammering on about religious freedom when they have bent over backwards to insult and denigrate Christianity at every possible turn -but NOW want to side with a religion that actually STONES RAPED WOMEN to death as adulterers in several Muslim countries when you NEVER hear any American Muslim group ever speak out against these barbaric acts like that? Says a lot about the left's true mentality here and it also means the left must believe siding with the radical imam on this actually serves their larger agenda -because their support hasn't a damn thing to with religious freedom whatsoever. And this issue hasn't a damn thing to do with religious freedom either because religious freedom doesn't come with a right to build a house of worship on a PARTICULAR piece of land as opposed to some other one. No one is talking about passing a law to forbid the construction and absolutely no one is insisting Muslims can't build mosques in other locations around the city. People don't object to them building any mosque anywhere. They ONLY object to it being built HERE and insisting they build it somewhere else instead is NOT a violation of anyone's religious freedoms. Just like Jews didn't object to Carmelite nuns building any convent -they only objected to it being built at Auschwitz. Demanding the nuns build their convent somewhere else was NOT a violation of their religious freedoms either because they weren't pressured into not building a convent at all -just not building one at THAT particular site. Same thing here. Demanding those who have already been horribly victimized to show "sensitivity" is actually a demand they lay down and play victim some more instead of realizing the party that should be showing sensitivity here is those with the religion that spawned the 9 mass murderers who slaughtered unarmed and unprepared CIVILIANS in the name of their religion. An act by the way that the vast majority of the world's Muslims did NOT condemn in case you forgot! Its like demanding a rape victim show more "sensitivity" to her rapist's family while that family defends the rapist and insists the victim was asking for it anyway! This imam has not, did not and will not condemn what the mass murderers did -and in fact just 18 days after 9/11 said WE BROUGHT IT ON OURSELVES. Oh sure Bloomberg, let's all pretend this guy isn't trying to put an "IN YOUR FACE AMERICA" mosque at ground zero when everyone knows in their gut that is exactly why this guy wants to build a mosque right there and is demanding the families of the victims just STFU and SUBMIT.

When did common sense and common decency become SO perverted in this country that there are actually people who think the party that carries the burden of showing "sensitivity" are those who have already horribly suffered and have repeatedly insisted that a mosque at that site would be a never ending source of pain and do nothing but keep their wound open and raw? When did the burden for showing sensitivity shift to the victim in this country? You will never be able to just FORCE them to stop feeling what they do -so going ahead with its construction is actually a deliberate act and deliberate infliction of additional pain that could be totally avoided by just building it a few blocks away. Something this imam has said he will NOT do and will not even consider -which means he doesn't give a SHIT about their pain and is actually saying FUCK YOU to them all. It is far more important to him to build a mosque he KNOWS will be viewed by them (and most of the nation as well) as an IN YOUR FACE tribute to the mass murderers. So just who is actually guilty of being insensitive here and so much so that it reveals this imam's real motive for demanding it be built at this particular site. It is STUNNING that these people are actually condemning those who were victimized for not showing more sensitivity to a guy who wants an IN YOUR FACE mosque. Wow.

I KNOW the motive of those who want it built somewhere else and would have no complaint about a mosque being built anywhere else but this place. But what do you REALLY think the motive is for the imam who demands it be built at Ground Zero knowing exactly how these people really feel about it? Anyone with a shred of humanity wouldn't dream of putting it there out of respect for the very real emotional pain it will inflict. The fact this man demands it be built there screams volumes about his true character. His total lack of decency and humanity is just one more example of just how revoltingly intolerant and disrespectful too many who practice Islam really are towards non-Muslims. And proud of it.

Many Democrats are on the wrong side here and keep wanting to pretend the controversy is about whether they have the right to build there when that is not the issue. 65% of Americans agree they have the right to build there -but 64% of Americans also insist they SHOULDN'T build there.

I am absolutely DISGUSTED with politicians like Bloomberg who insist it is the families of the victims who need show sensitivity here when in fact it is MUSLIMS who should be showing sensitivity. How DARE people like Bloomberg insist the burden of "sensitivity" here lies with those who have already been victimized instead of being APPALLED that this imam is demanding going ahead with the construction of a mosque at this site, knowing full well the pain it will inflict on those who already suffered so much. Which begs the REAL question why this imam is so intent on doing just that.

You don't demand the victims to show "sensitivity" on this. You demand those of the religion that bred these barbarians show sensitivity towards those who were already victimized by the act that took place here and have repeatedly said a mosque at just THIS particular site would be a never ending source of pain -that it would not be if built just a few blocks away. Demanding to go ahead with it anyway knowing full well how disrespectful, offensive and painful the vast majority of Americans it to be -is nothing but a FUCK YOU statement to the entire country. Apparently one the left wants to join in on -which is also a pretty blunt statement about THEIR humanity and decency as well.

 

[syrenn]

Damn! Ive been merged!

 

[Big Fitz]

I don't fear Islam any more than I fear Gunny.

Suck it up you pussies.

Remember that when your face down on the beheading block for questioning Islam and exercising the freedom you threw away in your own stupidity of being 'tolerant and accepting' of barbarism.

 

[Ravi]

Frazz...if a mosque shouldn't be built two blocks away from ground zero do you also think Muslims shouldn't be within two blocks of ground zero?

 

[Article 15]

I don't fear Islam any more than I fear Gunny.

Suck it up you pussies.

Remember that when your face down on the beheading block for questioning Islam and exercising the freedom you threw away in your own stupidity of being 'tolerant and accepting' of barbarism.

Tell me about it!

It's only Wednesday and I've had five near beheadings at the hands of crazed Muslims already this week!

 

[Big Fitz]

75 years ago, nobody believed that Social security would be anything more than a minor little tax on the very rich to help protect the very poor. 45 years ago, Medicare was only going to cost 1 billion dollars at most. Now these two things have effectively wrecked our government with their unconstitutional scope creep. Why? Radicals pushed it to do more and more things, and get more and more money. They move a little, let you scream, and then wait for you to calm down and then move again. You guys have been doing this for your progressofascist social engineering since FDR.

Now that's a secular version. Look at what's happening in europe where they are rioting in the streets over the government forbidding Burkhas. They are killing people for 'insults to Mohammad'. These are the people pushing for Sharia Law world wide. These are the ones supporting this mosque. There are 100 mosques in NYC, why is this one so important AND to dedicate it on 9/11/11? You area blind fool to not see why.

The mosque is not an instant flip over. It is a single step from a hungry bear across the room. And you and your foolhardy compatriots are playing 'come here, boy' just because it pisses off your political enemies and thinking that because you invited it in, it won't eat you at all, when it really will kill you first as a culture.

So you can laugh and say "oh look at you, you silly reactionary" all you damn well want. You are ignorin what has been happening world wide when radical islamists are given an inch. Ultimately, they take your foot off.

 

[Ravi]

75 years ago, nobody believed that Social security would be anything more than a minor little tax on the very rich to help protect the very poor. 45 years ago, Medicare was only going to cost 1 billion dollars at most. Now these two things have effectively wrecked our government with their unconstitutional scope creep. Why? Radicals pushed it to do more and more things, and get more and more money. They move a little, let you scream, and then wait for you to calm down and then move again. You guys have been doing this for your progressofascist social engineering since FDR.

Now that's a secular version. Look at what's happening in europe where they are rioting in the streets over the government forbidding Burkhas. They are killing people for 'insults to Mohammad'. These are the people pushing for Sharia Law world wide. These are the ones supporting this mosque. There are 100 mosques in NYC, why is this one so important AND to dedicate it on 9/11/11? You area blind fool to not see why.

The mosque is not an instant flip over. It is a single step from a hungry bear across the room. And you and your foolhardy compatriots are playing 'come here, boy' just because it pisses off your political enemies and thinking that because you invited it in, it won't eat you at all, when it really will kill you first as a culture.

So you can laugh and say "oh look at you, you silly reactionary" all you damn well want. You are ignorin what has been happening world wide when radical islamists are given an inch. Ultimately, they take your foot off.

Link?

 

[Big Fitz]

75 years ago, nobody believed that Social security would be anything more than a minor little tax on the very rich to help protect the very poor. 45 years ago, Medicare was only going to cost 1 billion dollars at most. Now these two things have effectively wrecked our government with their unconstitutional scope creep. Why? Radicals pushed it to do more and more things, and get more and more money. They move a little, let you scream, and then wait for you to calm down and then move again. You guys have been doing this for your progressofascist social engineering since FDR.

Now that's a secular version. Look at what's happening in europe where they are rioting in the streets over the government forbidding Burkhas. They are killing people for 'insults to Mohammad'. These are the people pushing for Sharia Law world wide. These are the ones supporting this mosque. There are 100 mosques in NYC, why is this one so important AND to dedicate it on 9/11/11? You area blind fool to not see why.

The mosque is not an instant flip over. It is a single step from a hungry bear across the room. And you and your foolhardy compatriots are playing 'come here, boy' just because it pisses off your political enemies and thinking that because you invited it in, it won't eat you at all, when it really will kill you first as a culture.

So you can laugh and say "oh look at you, you silly reactionary" all you damn well want. You are ignorin what has been happening world wide when radical islamists are given an inch. Ultimately, they take your foot off.

Link?

Mosque madness at Ground Zero - NYPOST.com

Just one report on it. Lots in the blogosphere, but for the time I'm willing to spend searching for now, this was the biggest news source I found.

 

[Luissa]

Why was this merged?

 

[Luissa]

Isn't there a Strip Club right by Ground Zero? Is that honoring the victims?

 

[boedicca]

Strippers didn't fly jets in the WTC causing Muslims around the world to dance in the streets celebrating the death of nearly 3,000 people. Nor have Strip Clubs been built (for centuries) as monuments to victory over the infidels.

 

[Luissa]

Strippers didn't fly jets in the WTC causing Muslims around the world to dance in the streets celebrating the death of nearly 3,000 people.

Did the people building the community center fly the planes into the towers?

Are you like every other Christian in the world? How about the guy who tried to shoot up a college Police Station yesterday. If he is a Christian, is every Christian like him?

This Mosque is in New York City, where many Muslims live, and where many Muslims lost their lives on 9/11. It is their neighborhood too.

 

[Ravi]

75 years ago, nobody believed that Social security would be anything more than a minor little tax on the very rich to help protect the very poor. 45 years ago, Medicare was only going to cost 1 billion dollars at most. Now these two things have effectively wrecked our government with their unconstitutional scope creep. Why? Radicals pushed it to do more and more things, and get more and more money. They move a little, let you scream, and then wait for you to calm down and then move again. You guys have been doing this for your progressofascist social engineering since FDR.

Now that's a secular version. Look at what's happening in europe where they are rioting in the streets over the government forbidding Burkhas. They are killing people for 'insults to Mohammad'. These are the people pushing for Sharia Law world wide. These are the ones supporting this mosque. There are 100 mosques in NYC, why is this one so important AND to dedicate it on 9/11/11? You area blind fool to not see why.

The mosque is not an instant flip over. It is a single step from a hungry bear across the room. And you and your foolhardy compatriots are playing 'come here, boy' just because it pisses off your political enemies and thinking that because you invited it in, it won't eat you at all, when it really will kill you first as a culture.

So you can laugh and say "oh look at you, you silly reactionary" all you damn well want. You are ignorin what has been happening world wide when radical islamists are given an inch. Ultimately, they take your foot off.

Link?

Mosque madness at Ground Zero - NYPOST.com

Just one report on it. Lots in the blogosphere, but for the time I'm willing to spend searching for now, this was the biggest news source I found.

Thanks for the effort. The next time I believe something written in the NY Post will be the first.

 

[Big Fitz]

yep. Acting as I expected.

 

[Big Fitz]

Did the people building the community center fly the planes into the towers?

Isn't there a Strip Club right by Ground Zero? Is that honoring the victims?

You can't have it both ways. You imply we cannot hold those who believe in the same goals as the terrorists cannot be held accountable for their philosophy or in the same contempt. Yet you want to say it's inappropriate for those who were not involved in the disaster to be held to accountability? Or are you saying that if they were strippers who caused the disaster they should be prevented from having a strip club nearby.

Nice double/triple standard going on.

BTW, are you supporting the rebuilding of St. Nicolas in the form they desired: a traditional greek orthodox church, next door on their property to ground zero?

 

[frazzledgear]

Frazz...if a mosque shouldn't be built two blocks away from ground zero do you also think Muslims shouldn't be within two blocks of ground zero?

Don't be ridiculous. PEOPLE are not a building Ravi. Did I suggest that non-Jews have no business visiting Auschwitz? No, but I absolutely agree that the Carmelite nuns should not have built a convent there and applaud them for showing sensitivity towards those who objected to its construction there and I applaud them for doing the right thing and building it somewhere else instead. If this imam changes his mind and decides to build elsewhere given the strong feelings of those who object, I would applaud him for that too. But unlike the nuns, he has been broadcasting loud and clear a totally different message toward those who have said a mosque at this site would be a never ending source of pain and keep their wounds open and raw. These are people who also have a 1st Amendment right too -of free speech and they are insisting that their feelings be taken into account here and have stated their objections to the construction of a mosque at this particular site alone. Not the construction of a mosque anywhere, but just here. AS IS THEIR RIGHT TOO. They have the right to object as often and as loudly as they want -and intend to do so. And I applaud THEM for it. I would NEVER insist it is the victim who bears the burden of showing "sensitivity" towards those who want to build what the world's Muslims would absolutely view as a tribute to the mass murderers of 9/11.

I am not kidding about tradition in Islam of building a mosque whenever possible at sites of important events, conquests and victories believed to have furthered the interests of Islam occurred. Just because other religions do not have that tradition doesn't mean I have to pretend Islam doesn't either -when it absolutely does. Nearly every one of their most well known mosques are at such sites. This IS the reason this imam is demanding to build here knowing full well the pain it will cause. He doesn't care about their pain, he cares about the real statement a mosque at this site would mean to Muslims around the world. Can we move past those who object to its construction and agree we can all understand why they would object -and move on to asking why, in the face of these painful objections, this imam INSISTS on going forward with it at that very location instead of just a few blocks away?

And let's not forget something else here -the ONLY house of worship that was destroyed on 9/11 was a Greek Orthodox Church. It was destroyed when the South Tower collapsed on it. The Port Authority has laid down so much red tape that they have essentially denied it the right to rebuild. anywhere in the area. WTF is going on here? No mosque was destroyed on 9/11 but this imam was given swift permission to build what the world's Muslims would definitely consider a tribute to the mass murderers. He got permission in a matter of MONTHS. But the only house of worship that was actually destroyed that day can't get permission to rebuild at all even 9 years later? You sure don't hear that imam insisting IT should be rebuilt -and you never will.

And I want to vomit after hearing Pelosi just today. She wants a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION -not into exactly WHO is funding the building of this mosque which is STILL a huge secret that is being hidden from the public. But into who is funding the opposition to its construction. Oh yeah, as if it requires funding to oppose the construction and without that everyone would actually applaud the construction of a mosque at Ground Zero, right? OMG this woman has a major screw loose if she thinks it is impossible for the overwhelming rejection to the proposal of a mosque being built at this site without a massive conspiracy behind it. But it DOES go to show just how much liberals really do believe people are little more than stupid cows who exist to be manipulated by others and so stupid they can't possibly have an opinion of their own. This belief that most people are just stupid cows is at the very heart and founding principle of liberalism -and Nancy never hesitates to reveal her utter contempt for people in general and how deeply she believes this to be true. HELLO NANCY -that "conspiracy" is called the "WILL OF THE PEOPLE" who are getting pretty pissed off about people like YOU ignoring them over and over again and belittling them and trying to marginalize and even punish them any time their opinions differ from YOURS. OMG This woman doesn't occupy space in reality.

 

[chanel]

The federal government has secretly declared war on the American people. How many examples do we need?