Zone1 Is God a sadist?

[expat_panama]

Sure. Except the "our problem is that we" part. Maybe you should consider why it is that you speak in the plural. To me it means that you think of yourself as royalty...

That's where I stopped reading because it's an important pivotal point.

Somehow I thought we already went thru this but the only reason I'm chatting w/ u is that my understanding is that u & I are working together to better understand reality. That's my goal. That's why I say things like "we should" w/ the hopes that u & I could improve our exchange of info. If ur response is "you can but I won't" then I can expect something else, like a lack of cooperation.

A lot of folks on these threads are only interested in engaging in an adversarial relationship and they're always confronting or contending. I'm not interested in those kinds of interchanges. My assumption is that ur willing to work w/ me and set confrontation off to one side. If I'm right we can get back to what ever we're doing here and if I'm wrong & I'll be on my way.

 

[hobelim]

That's where I stopped reading because it's an important pivotal point.

Why lie? You read the whole post. Obviously "we" were offended by something, whatever 'we' is. Doesn't that make you wonder what is pulling your strings and feeding on your life force like a parasite trying to inhabit and control your body while lurking in the redacted areas of your mind?

What was the trigger?

"Be an individual that reflects the image and likeness of a holy God" or, "be one as God is one"?

Somehow I thought we already went thru this but the only reason I'm chatting w/ u is that my understanding is that u & I are working together to better understand reality. That's my goal.

LOL...You thought, "we already went through this"? See what I mean? No? Well, here 'we' go again. I have no problem understanding reality. You do. Blind people don't receive their sight back with Jesus spit, except if its blindness of perception. Dead people do not crawl out of their graves and walk, ever, except if their death is a metaphor. This is reality. So worry about yourself. I'm cool.

 

[BreezeWood]

That's where I stopped reading because it's an important pivotal point.

Somehow I thought we already went thru this but the only reason I'm chatting w/ u is that my understanding is that u & I are working together to better understand reality. That's my goal. That's why I say things like "we should" w/ the hopes that u & I could improve our exchange of info. If ur response is "you can but I won't" then I can expect something else, like a lack of cooperation.

A lot of folks on these threads are only interested in engaging in an adversarial relationship and they're always confronting or contending. I'm not interested in those kinds of interchanges. My assumption is that ur willing to work w/ me and set confrontation off to one side. If I'm right we can get back to what ever we're doing here and if I'm wrong & I'll be on my way.

I try to make it a point to believe only what's in the Bible ...

there is a state infirmary down the road in florida known simply as - chattahoochie ... the desert is strong there.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Well, after being tortured by God, Job was rewarded

He should have been rewarded regardless

He wasn't tortured by God. Get your facts straight

 

[rightwinger]

He wasn't tortured by God. Get your facts straight

Yea…read the story

That is torture both mental and physical

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Yea…read the story

That is torture both mental and physical

You need to read the HISTORY. God did not torture him.

 

[Clyde 154]

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You make a lot of unnecessary assumptions in your post. First, you assume that if there is a deity, it will be a person or individual conscious entity. Why? You also assume that the Jewish and Christian scriptures are divinely inspired, again why? More, you assert that the natural world somehow implicitly points to the existence of your Christian god without presenting any evidence for that.

How can you genuinly, without being forced, commit yourself to a divine being who threatens you with eternal torment and torture in hell? Your dedication to such a deity isn't really a free choice or based on love but on fear of being eternally damned by this divine entity.

Lets get this logical fallacy out of the way. You can attack and assuse the Holy Scriptures and attempt to prosecute them by the things which are contained within them.........but the scriptures are not allowed to use those same contents to defend themself? That sound's like Fascist Communism to me............the opposite of being innocent until proven guilty by those who would attempt to prosecute the truth therein......no?


I "assume" nothing............My faith is based upon logic and reason, its not blind. Its PRIMA FACIE truth. (we, as Christians are commanded to TEST ALL THINGS and believe nothing blindly) -- 1 Thess. 5:21 The evidence for an "invisible creator" is clearly demonstrated by the THINGS that are made/created (Romans 1:20)....... there is no method for the supposed "genius" of mankind to define his origins via the laws of physics that are undeniable. It is "YOU" that claim to be working with SCIENCE yet can't produce the facts of CREATION. Theories are nothing but "IDEAS" based upon the assumption that the cosmos has remained static over billions of years with no demonstrable changes........which in itself denies the basic laws of physics.

The rational person will always draw conclusions based upon the facts in evidence. The evidence for the "natural" relam of reality indicates that for every "effect" (such as the creation of the Cosmic ball of energy called the Big Bang) there must be an adequate and antecedent (equal to or greater than) than the CAUSE of the effect. This is called the logical Law known as the law of cause and effect and its never been broken in all the history of mankind as demonstrated in the laws of physics.

If that which we call reality were indeed "natural" as opposed to Super (superior) Natural (to nature) then the origins of this reality.....i.e., the "effect" known as the Universe would be easily defined by the scientific method when the known laws of physics were applied.

There is no such experiment that provides the pre-requisities that concludes in FACTS of APPLIED SCIENCE. If such is not logical nor reasonable...........simply provide the concluded FACTS IN EVIDENCE that explain the CAUSE of the effect known as the physical universe, provide the objective, observable, reproducible, and consistent conclusions based upon the Laws of Physics that can explain the CAUSE of the energy that was required to produce the physical universe..........even Stephen Hawkin had to Conclude that the Universe was a product of NOTHING. Now that's a belief in magic. He hated God so much that he refused to accept the reality..........the Universe and everything natural has a superior Cause....i.e., a SuperNatural Cause. Even "Einstein" had to admit that the Beginning of Creation is beyond the capacity of mankind and sciene to ever comprehend. Why? Because that is where the Laws of Physics fail to define their own origins.

To believe that the Universe is a self creating effect..........having created itself from nothing, one would have to dismiss serveral laws of physics that prove the universe as been and is anything but STATIC, in fact its decaying, slowly dying through the consumption of the available energy. All things phsycial are created with an expriation date.......even this physical universe.

What about God? Does God require a cause? Logically, based upon what has been revealed in scripture in a very logical method.........no, God is superior to nature and the laws do not apply to a spiritual realm. (The Universe and mankind....all exist within the God of Creation -- Acts 17:24-28).

God is not a finate physical being........He is a Spirit, with no beginning and no ending. Thus, unless you have a "Super-0-Natural" meter in your hip pocket that is superior to the laws of physics........you are incable of dismissing the miracles found in scripture by attempting to apply the laws of physics (inferior to the Supernatural), miracles that are recorded based upon the eyewitnesses accounting of some 38 human beings, all in total agreement from Genesis to revelation. Its described in scripture (2 Peter 1:10-21)........in which YOU nor anyone has any physical objective, observable, reproducible, consistent evidences that makes the statments of these eyewitnesses.....false.

Now why don't you present your logical fallacies and circular logic and attempt to explain everything through your PHILOSOPHY better known as THEORY. You have no proof of anything....its all based upon Assumption, Conjecture, and Speculation in the HOPE that one day your theories will be demonstrable through the laws of physics, i.e., APPLIED SCIENCE as opposed to Theorethical Science or Pseudo Science that exists only between the ears of its FAITHFUL. That's blind faith.

 

[expat_panama]

...I have no problem understanding reality. You do..

Ah, that answers everything, cheers!

 

[expat_panama]

there is a state infirmary down the road in florida known simply as - chattahoochie ... the desert is strong there.

?

 

[BreezeWood]

?

I try to make it a point to believe only what's in the Bible and I take my own preferences w/ a grain of salt.

howabout the etched tablets from the heavens with the "10 commandments" ... do you believe them.

- faith not required.

 

[expat_panama]

howabout the etched tablets from the heavens with the "10 commandments" ... do you believe them.

- faith not required.

Believe it or not while my first guess is that you consider yourself an atheist, that there's some important aspects of reality I really would like to learn from u. otoh my second guess is that you've decided that you are at war w/ me and ur prepared to disagree w/ whatever I said no matter what --making any kind of information inquiry impossible.

So we're stuck, that it appears while I'm looking for information about the cosmos, u what to fight. If things are as they appear to me than cheers and I'll be on my way. otoh if ur willing to reconsider your approach then let's talk.

Your call.

 

[BreezeWood]

Believe it or not while my first guess is that you consider yourself an atheist, that there's some important aspects of reality I really would like to learn from u. otoh my second guess is that you've decided that you are at war w/ me and ur prepared to disagree w/ whatever I said no matter what --making any kind of information inquiry impossible.

So we're stuck, that it appears while I'm looking for information about the cosmos, u what to fight. If things are as they appear to me than cheers and I'll be on my way. otoh if ur willing to reconsider your approach then let's talk.

Your call.

So we're stuck ...

no we about it ...

I try to make it a point to believe only what's in the Bible

howabout the etched tablets from the heavens with the "10 commandments" ... do you believe them.

your post was in reply to the above ... get a life. that would be something real - not the desert religions.