Is America To Blame?

[Dr Grump]

Take all the emotion out of the argument and let's get to the basic premise. What do you guys think of American hegemony, or 'imperialism' for want of a better word - whether it be economical or militarily?

I find it weird/bizarre/strange that a lot of the extreme right in America (and on this board) are all about "freedom", "pursuit of happiness", "freedom of speech" yadda, yadda, yadda, yet your country has absolutely no problems interferring in the inner mechanisms of other countries - overtly (Iraq/Afghanistan/Panama), or covertly (Chile/Central America)..

How do you marry both trains of thought and not expect some kind of payback?

Just wonderin'.....

 

[Charles_Main]

lol

 

[Dr Grump]

It's a serious question....

 

[Charles_Main]

A question that has been done over and over. Frankly I tire of the Debate.

Suffice to say that if we do not fill the roll of the worlds Main power. Someone else will.

 

[Dr Grump]

A question that has been done over and over. Frankly I tire of the Debate.

Suffice to say that if we do not fill the roll of the worlds Main power. Someone else will.

Why not just mind your own business? Can't hurt....

 

[Trajan]

Definition of IMPERIALISM
1
: imperial government, authority, or system
2
: the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence <union imperialism>

Imperialism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

imperialism [&#618;m&#712;p&#618;&#601;r&#618;&#601;&#716;l&#618;z&#601;m]
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the policy or practice of extending a state's rule over other territories
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an instance or policy of aggressive behaviour by one state against another
3. the extension or attempted extension of authority, influence, power, etc., by any person, country, institution, etc. cultural imperialism
4. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a system of imperial government or rule by an emperor
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the spirit, character, authority, etc., of an empire
6. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) advocacy of or support for any form of imperialism

imperialism - definition of imperialism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[lizzie]

I find it weird/bizarre/strange that a lot of the extreme right in America (and on this board) are all about "freedom", "pursuit of happiness", "freedom of speech" yadda, yadda, yadda, yet your country has absolutely no problems interferring in the inner mechanisms of other countries - overtly (Iraq/Afghanistan/Panama), or covertly (Chile/Central America)..

How do you marry both trains of thought and not expect some kind of payback?

Just wonderin'.....

I'm probably not what you would call extreme right, but I am right-leaning with a strong libertarian political stance. I don't like the US meddling in foreign affairs at all, with the exception of doing legitimate business. As for Iraq/Afghanistan, I say leave them alone and let them live their lives the way they see fit. Our presence probably makes them hate us all the more. They see us as a moral cesspool (and that's easy for me to understand), and they don't want our influence. I feel the same way about any part of South or Central America as well. I'm not really sure where you were going with the "payback" question.

 

[Dr Grump]

Definition of IMPERIALISM
1
: imperial government, authority, or system
2
: the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence <union imperialism>

Imperialism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

imperialism [&#618;m&#712;p&#618;&#601;r&#618;&#601;&#716;l&#618;z&#601;m]
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the policy or practice of extending a state's rule over other territories
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an instance or policy of aggressive behaviour by one state against another
3. the extension or attempted extension of authority, influence, power, etc., by any person, country, institution, etc. cultural imperialism
4. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a system of imperial government or rule by an emperor
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the spirit, character, authority, etc., of an empire
6. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) advocacy of or support for any form of imperialism

imperialism - definition of imperialism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Well, I did put the word in speech marks for a reason. That being said does the US meet any of the explanations:

1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the policy or practice of extending a state's rule over other territories: Yep
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) an instance or policy of aggressive behaviour by one state against another Yep
3. the extension or attempted extension of authority, influence, power, etc., by any person, country, institution, etc. cultural imperialism Yep
4. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a system of imperial government or rule by an emperor No
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the spirit, character, authority, etc., of an empire Maybe
6. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) advocacy of or support for any form of imperialism Maybe

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It's called blowback, and it's real. I think it's funny that Petraeus sees the Koran being burned as incentivizing extremists to attack us, but not our military occupations, embargoes, or bombings.

Is America to blame? No. Is the U.S. government? They certainly deserve much of the blame.

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm probably not what you would call extreme right, but I am right-leaning with a strong libertarian political stance. I don't like the US meddling in foreign affairs at all, with the exception of doing legitimate business. As for Iraq/Afghanistan, I say leave them alone and let them live their lives the way they see fit. Our presence probably makes them hate us all the more. They see us as a moral cesspool (and that's easy for me to understand), and they don't want our influence. I feel the same way about any part of South or Central America as well. I'm not really sure where you were going with the "payback" question.

Well, there was a perceived shock at 9-11 occurring by members of the US public. I'm not talking shock at the ACTUAL event - that is a given, but the kind "I can't believe this happened to us" and "why" did it happen.

Of all the thoughts that went through my mind that day, not ONCE did I think those two thoughts. I was not surprised at all that it happened, nor why it happened. So I guess that is the 'payback' element of the OP...

 

[ekrem]

Well, there was a perceived shock at 9-11 occurring by members of the US public. I'm not talking shock at the ACTUAL event - that is a given, but the kind "I can't believe this happened to us" and "why" did it happen.

Of all the thoughts that went through my mind that day, not ONCE did I think those two thoughts. I was not surprised at all that it happened, nor why it happened. So I guess that is the 'payback' element of the OP...

The USA mainly deals with non-state actors these days. Yet, it has kicked a foot in a lot of Countries' comfort zone in its relatively young history. In world history, you're a newcomer. Times, where population in world has exploded and actions are very well documented by modern technology and mass-availability of information. This will not be like e.g. Huns sweeping over Eurasia, and no one has a memory over this.
Let's see how it plays out, once you're not anymore Nr-1. I think, the US is not a type of nation that will bounce back, like for example Brits or Germans have demonstrated in their long history of ups and downs. There are only a small amount of nations, who have constantly influenced the world. You can proove me wrong, it's not a distant future where this opportunity will be given to you.

 

[The Infidel]

 

[lizzie]

Well, there was a perceived shock at 9-11 occurring by members of the US public. I'm not talking shock at the ACTUAL event - that is a given, but the kind "I can't believe this happened to us" and "why" did it happen.

Of all the thoughts that went through my mind that day, not ONCE did I think those two thoughts. I was not surprised at all that it happened, nor why it happened. So I guess that is the 'payback' element of the OP...

Ahh- okay. From that standpoint, no, I don't think we deserved any kind of "payback". At that point, we were not yet in Iraq or Afghanistan. What do you think they were paying us back for?

 

[California Girl]

Take all the emotion out of the argument and let's get to the basic premise. What do you guys think of American hegemony, or 'imperialism' for want of a better word - whether it be economical or militarily?

I find it weird/bizarre/strange that a lot of the extreme right in America (and on this board) are all about "freedom", "pursuit of happiness", "freedom of speech" yadda, yadda, yadda, yet your country has absolutely no problems interferring in the inner mechanisms of other countries - overtly (Iraq/Afghanistan/Panama), or covertly (Chile/Central America)..

How do you marry both trains of thought and not expect some kind of payback?

Just wonderin'.....

Every fucking time there is a problem - anywhere in the world - everybody looks at us and says 'fix it'. And we do. We may not always do it the way the world wants but thems the breaks.

You want us to stop? Fine. Fix it your fucking selves.

Seems when we are wanted, we're everybody's best friend. When we do it because WE need to, we're the worst country on the planet. There are only so many times we will bail the asses of the world out and get slammed for it. One of these days, you'll need us and we'll say 'fuck it, you broke it, you fix it'... See how you like that.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Take all the emotion out of the argument and let's get to the basic premise. What do you guys think of American hegemony, or 'imperialism' for want of a better word - whether it be economical or militarily?

I find it weird/bizarre/strange that a lot of the extreme right in America (and on this board) are all about "freedom", "pursuit of happiness", "freedom of speech" yadda, yadda, yadda, yet your country has absolutely no problems interferring in the inner mechanisms of other countries - overtly (Iraq/Afghanistan/Panama), or covertly (Chile/Central America)..

How do you marry both trains of thought and not expect some kind of payback?

Just wonderin'.....

I completely understand payback. I understand exactly why someone in the ME or Latin America would hate us. It's perfectly understandable, and human nature.

The extreme right are utterly hopeless in this respect.

 

[lizzie]

Let's see how it plays out, once you're not anymore Nr-1. I think, the US is not a type of nation that will bounce back, like for example Brits or Germans have demonstrated in their long history of ups and downs. .

I think you are mistaken. I think we have a bit further down to go, and we will be tested mightily, but a portion of our general population has alot more grit than alot of people realize.

 

[boedicca]

Take all the emotion out of the argument and let's get to the basic premise. What do you guys think of American hegemony, or 'imperialism' for want of a better word - whether it be economical or militarily?

I find it weird/bizarre/strange that a lot of the extreme right in America (and on this board) are all about "freedom", "pursuit of happiness", "freedom of speech" yadda, yadda, yadda, yet your country has absolutely no problems interferring in the inner mechanisms of other countries - overtly (Iraq/Afghanistan/Panama), or covertly (Chile/Central America)..

How do you marry both trains of thought and not expect some kind of payback?

Just wonderin'.....

Every fucking time there is a problem - anywhere in the world - everybody looks at us and says 'fix it'. And we do. We may not always do it the way the world wants but thems the breaks.

You want us to stop? Fine. Fix it your fucking selves.

Seems when we are wanted, we're everybody's best friend. When we do it because WE need to, we're the worst country on the planet. There are only so many times we will bail the asses of the world out and get slammed for it. One of these days, you'll need us and we'll say 'fuck it, you broke it, you fix it'... See how you like that.

And we rarely are thanked for the help we provide. Instead, we get guilt tripped that we didn't do enough.

 

[Trajan]

we can start with the easy one;

1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the policy or practice of extending a state's rule over other territories: Yep

explain please?

 

[ekrem]

(...)
You want us to stop? Fine. Fix it your fucking selves.
(...)

Now the rhetorical question needs to be asked, which part of world wanted you to "police" Iraq. And who exactly said to you "fix it".

 

[jillian]

Every fucking time there is a problem - anywhere in the world - everybody looks at us and says 'fix it'. And we do. We may not always do it the way the world wants but thems the breaks.

You want us to stop? Fine. Fix it your fucking selves.

Seems when we are wanted, we're everybody's best friend. When we do it because WE need to, we're the worst country on the planet. There are only so many times we will bail the asses of the world out and get slammed for it. One of these days, you'll need us and we'll say 'fuck it, you broke it, you fix it'... See how you like that.

the unnecessary anger aside, are you sure you're not a jewish mother in another life?

what? you want i should cook for you and clean for you but i can't tell you who to date? oy! i'm going to kill myself.

just sayin'

and you don't see a difference between legitimate cooperation with other countries and when their interests co-exist with ours (which is the ONLY time we intervene at the request of other countries) and bullying our way in and deposing a sovereign leader (e.g., saddam) for no reason; or interfering in people's chosen governments because we don't like those governments (e.g., chile or iran-contra)?

you really saying that looks the same to you?