Iran's election a sham

[rhodescholar]

Ok, here is what I don't understand:

There are elections .......The wrong answer is military intervention, as some here [rhodescholar and others] would have you believe. That recommendation displays extreme short-sightedness. Military intervention against Iran would accomplish only two things- unite the country behind the regime and against the invader, and pretty much legitimize the regime's hardline international stance (i.e. everything it's been saying about the "foreign enemy"). If these protests continue, it will become obvious maybe not today or tomorrow but in the not-too-distant future that the Iranian people must and will solve this by themselves. Foreign intervention must help the democratizing forces inside the country but maintain a fair bit of distance lest the collusion itself becomes a point of contention. And well... for now we have to wait and see. Ideally, the protests would grow. But if it is indeed true that the results have delegitimized the regime in the eyes of a huge segment of the population (the majority if the opposition won, or a significant minority even if it lost), then the regime's days are counted, foreign intervention or not.And well, that's my take on the issue.

A good post, and well thought out one, but the problem for many Westerners is that we retain a level of civil decency towards one another, i.e., where we expect others who, if they see us waiting in line at a supermarket, won't push us to the floor and say "I'm next!"

Given that the iranian regime will kill every last iranian to retain power, there really is no way for the people there to enact any kind of velvet uprising/regime change, like we saw in Russian in 1991, Germany in 1989, or the Ukraine a few years back, it is just not possible in iran.

Only outside military intervention, and yes, I know, everyone hates Nazi comparions, but as in the case with Nazi Germany, there is no way that an almost completely unarmed populace can overthrow a regime committed to retaining power at any cost, and will use armed militias, police, and RG to physically attack and kill the protestors, as they did today shooting into the crowds.

Does anyone doubt that Kim Jong Il has starved millions to stay in power? Do we want to move forward knowing we could have stopped pol pot before he killed millions? I don't want this on my conscience, I have expended significant effort in my life trying to persuade superior officers to have taken actions that would have saved far more lives in the long run, but was ordered to "stay my weapon."

Here is my take on the next few weeks on a country I know quite well:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1278848-post25.html

 

[American Horse]

What a complete disappointment.

TEHRAN, Iran — Iran declared [COLOR=#038258 ! important][COLOR=#038258 ! important]President [COLOR=#038258 ! important]Mahmoud [/color][COLOR=#038258 ! important]Ahmadinejad[/color][/color][/color] the winner Saturday of an election that pitted the conservative establishment against candidate with broad backing from the country's youth. Riot police attacked opposition supporters, beating them with clubs and smashing cars.
A statement from Mousavi posted on his Web site condemned what he described as the "manipulation" of election results.
Demonstrators wearing the trademark green color of Mir Hossein Mousavi chanted slogans condemning the results that gave 62.6 percent of the vote to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Protesters set fire to tires outside the Interior Ministry in the most serious unrest in Tehran in a decade.

Iran Election Results: Ahmadinejad Declared Winner

What a joke. Why bother holding elections if they're going to manipulate the results?

If this is what they want to do, then it's time to let Israel off of its leash.

I have noticed on FNC a lot of the text on the signs the protesters are carrying has English subtitles. This is an appeal to America by this faction. Who was it that said that we stand with freedom loving people everywhere? I personally don't think there's an important difference between either of these candidates, but the public wanted to show the system up for what it is, a sham. This was the only way.

There is a theory that I heard that Ahmadinejad is set to become more powerful than the Ayatollah, or the Mullahs combined, so this may be a tipping point for their system of government.

I think Obama will be more happy with Ahmadinejad, the devil he knows rather than the devil he doesn't know, but if the theory stated above is accurate, the has something to lose in backing Ahmadinejad by being taciturn. Iran does not hesitate involving itself in our elections, and turnabout is fair play as far as a presidential statement in this case, and Obama could be more "forceful". How about offering Jimmy Carter's services and a new election?

Talk about "tacit" there is also a theory that there is a tacit agreement operating between Iran and the Administration for Iran to go easy in Iraq, and they have the capacity to create a lot of disturbances there. But as of now there are fledgling democracies on both sides of Iran, and Iran must feel very vulnerable to American influence. The student sign carriers make that clear also.

 

[American Horse]

from WSJ Excerpts from The Fear Is Gone - Firsthand accounts from Iran:

[By Kaveh from Tabriz]
Don't Accept This Coup
"President Obama's speech was good; he says that he will support us. He also said that nations must decide the fate of their countries by themselves. I agree with him, but now we don't have any power to change the situation, so we need help and attention.
We ask the president not to accept this coup d'etat."

[By Alireza in Tehran]
Marching to Freedom Square
"When we finally arrived at Azadi Square, which can accommodate around 500,000 people, it was full. We saw smoke coming from Jenah Freeway and heard the gunshots. People were scared but continued walking forward.

Later, my sister told me that she saw four militiamen come out from a house and shoot a girl. Then they shot a young boy in his eye and the bullet came out of his ear. She said that four people were shot.

We reformists have no radio, no newspaper, and no television. All our Internet sites are filtered, as well as social networks such as Facebook. Text messaging and mobile communication were also cut off during the demonstrations. And yet we had hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

Democracy is a long way ahead. I may not be alive to see that day. With eyes full of tears in these early hours of June 16, I glorify the courage of those who have already been killed. I hope that the blood of these martyrs will make every one of us more committed to freedom, to democracy and to human rights."

[By Negin in Tehran]
Women on the Front Lines
"People want to be heard and supported by the rest of the world. They were sending messages to the West with their cameras. They were calling on Obama and Sarkozy to demand that the Free World not recognize this government. I saw a few women shouting: 'Now it's your turn to support democracy and human rights.' "

[By Soudeh in Tehran]
This Government Is a Lie
"They don't have pity on anyone. Some of the police cannot speak Farsi. I saw one of them beating a man as he cursed in Arabic. People say they are from Hezbollah.
These men barge into homes and threaten people by calling their families. And they are savage against peaceful demonstrators."

[By Setareh in Tehran]
It's Like an Invasion
"In the past few days, I've participated in several rallies. During all of the protests, plainclothes militiamen would enter the crowds and manipulate people into dispersing by telling them that if they stayed the security forces would shoot them."

 

[Big_D]

What a complete disappointment.

TEHRAN, Iran — Iran declared [COLOR=#038258 ! important][COLOR=#038258 ! important]President [COLOR=#038258 ! important]Mahmoud [/color][COLOR=#038258 ! important]Ahmadinejad[/color][/color][/color] the winner Saturday of an election that pitted the conservative establishment against candidate with broad backing from the country's youth. Riot police attacked opposition supporters, beating them with clubs and smashing cars.
A statement from Mousavi posted on his Web site condemned what he described as the "manipulation" of election results.
Demonstrators wearing the trademark green color of Mir Hossein Mousavi chanted slogans condemning the results that gave 62.6 percent of the vote to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Protesters set fire to tires outside the Interior Ministry in the most serious unrest in Tehran in a decade.

Iran Election Results: Ahmadinejad Declared Winner

What a joke. Why bother holding elections if they're going to manipulate the results?

If this is what they want to do, then it's time to let Israel off of its leash.

I agree 100%. What is truly disturbing is that Ahmadinejad thought he could get away with it while it appears as if he barely made much of an effort to rig the election. Funny how Mousavi couldnt even of won his hometown...

"It is claimed that Ahmadinejad won the city of Tabriz with 57%. His main opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, is an Azeri from Azerbaijan province, of which Tabriz is the capital."
Informed Comment: Stealing the Iranian Election

"Secret Iranian government polls reported by Newsweek earlier this month estimated that Mousavi would win 16 to 18 million votes, and Ahmadinejad just 6 to 8 million. Those polls found that even the Revolutionary Guard and Iran's "vast intelligence apparatus seem to have come around to this position: a large majority of them also plan to vote for Mousavi,""
Was Iran's election rigged? Here's what is known so far. | csmonitor.com

"Defeated challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi claims that the official result of 62.6 percent for Mr. Ahmadinejad and just 33.7 percent for him was a "dangerous charade," and has called for a new election. His newspaper, Kalameh Sabz, reported that more than 10 million votes were missing personal identification numbers that made the votes untraceable. He also says some polling stations closed prematurely, preventing some voters from casting ballots."

Was Iran's election rigged? Here's what is known so far. | csmonitor.com