IMF study: U.S. tariffs on China hurting Americans most

[McRocket]

I agree with you 100%!!!

It had to happen eventually.

Chipotle had to raise the price of a taco by five cents

Burritos, and only if tariff's become permanent. So don't worry about it, no tariffs are permanent and a nickle is a small price to pay for securing the border.

I'm sure the tariffs are going to affect more than Chipotle. But, we can pretend differently.

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

The Real Reason American Jobs Are Going to China

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months.


And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Who is claiming that the initial bailouts of the auto industry were under Obama? He wasn't even President. He put up the first 16 or 15B of the total $80B.

Obama used to brag about bailing out the auto industry, now he wants to pretend that was all Bush too?

As Obama Takes Victory Lap Over Auto Industry Rescue, Here Are ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/.../obamas-takes-victory-lap-over-auto-industry-rescue/
Jan 20, 2016 - Free marketeers and free traders who like to stand on principle will never be convinced that the U.S. Treasury's bailout of the U.S. auto industry ...

You: 'Obama bailed out GM to avoid bankruptcy court, but GM wound up there anyway.'
You mentioned NOTHING of GWB who actually bailed out the two. Obama just agreed to buy the company...different ball game.

And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout

 

[McRocket]

I agree with you 100%!!!

It had to happen eventually.

Chipotle had to raise the price of a taco by five cents

Burritos, and only if tariff's become permanent. So don't worry about it, no tariffs are permanent and a nickle is a small price to pay for securing the border.

I'm sure the tariffs are going to affect more than Chipotle. But, we can pretend differently.

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

You

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months....

I understand that is your prediction, we can look at this again once the data is in. Certainly it has gone great so far. An additional $6B or so in GDP and $3B or so in tariffs and nice stable prices for consumers. Show me anyone but Trump that predicted it would all go this well.

We were assured that this would be an unmitigated disaster, and now that it obviously isn't, we are getting "But it will later!" That's just taking the unknown and filling it with your imagination, not unlike the map makers of old who pointed to the unexplored areas and wrote: "Thar there be Dragons!"

That is not added to the GDP. Most of that tariff money comes from American consumers/companies...so it is not added to the GDP.

But okay, show me a link to unbiased, factual proof that even 1/2 of the tariff money was NOT paid for by American companies or consumers to the US government?

 

[Zorro!]

Burritos, and only if tariff's become permanent. So don't worry about it, no tariffs are permanent and a nickle is a small price to pay for securing the border.

I'm sure the tariffs are going to affect more than Chipotle. But, we can pretend differently.

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

The Real Reason American Jobs Are Going to China

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months.


And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Who is claiming that the initial bailouts of the auto industry were under Obama? He wasn't even President. He put up the first 16 or 15B of the total $80B.

Obama used to brag about bailing out the auto industry, now he wants to pretend that was all Bush too?

As Obama Takes Victory Lap Over Auto Industry Rescue, Here Are ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/.../obamas-takes-victory-lap-over-auto-industry-rescue/
Jan 20, 2016 - Free marketeers and free traders who like to stand on principle will never be convinced that the U.S. Treasury's bailout of the U.S. auto industry ...

You: 'Obama bailed out GM to avoid bankruptcy court, but GM wound up there anyway.'
You mentioned NOTHING of GWB who actually bailed out the two. Obama just agreed to buy the company...different ball game.

And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout

FALSE.

If Bush's $17.4B was enough to save them, then $62.6B more from Obama wouldn't have been necessary.

 

[Zorro!]

Burritos, and only if tariff's become permanent. So don't worry about it, no tariffs are permanent and a nickle is a small price to pay for securing the border.

I'm sure the tariffs are going to affect more than Chipotle. But, we can pretend differently.

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

You

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months....

I understand that is your prediction, we can look at this again once the data is in. Certainly it has gone great so far. An additional $6B or so in GDP and $3B or so in tariffs and nice stable prices for consumers. Show me anyone but Trump that predicted it would all go this well.

We were assured that this would be an unmitigated disaster, and now that it obviously isn't, we are getting "But it will later!" That's just taking the unknown and filling it with your imagination, not unlike the map makers of old who pointed to the unexplored areas and wrote: "Thar there be Dragons!"

That is not added to the GDP. Most of that tariff money comes from American consumers/companies...so it is not added to the GDP.

But okay, show me a link to unbiased, factual proof that even 1/2 of the tariff money was NOT paid for by American companies or consumers to the US government?

It reduces the amount subtracted, dollar for dollar. As for your other claim, the complete lack of price inflation is a strong evidence that the tariffs are not being passed onto US Consumers.

As for producers, I don't see price pressure there either:

 

[McRocket]

I'm sure the tariffs are going to affect more than Chipotle. But, we can pretend differently.

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

The Real Reason American Jobs Are Going to China

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months.


And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Who is claiming that the initial bailouts of the auto industry were under Obama? He wasn't even President. He put up the first 16 or 15B of the total $80B.

Obama used to brag about bailing out the auto industry, now he wants to pretend that was all Bush too?

As Obama Takes Victory Lap Over Auto Industry Rescue, Here Are ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/.../obamas-takes-victory-lap-over-auto-industry-rescue/
Jan 20, 2016 - Free marketeers and free traders who like to stand on principle will never be convinced that the U.S. Treasury's bailout of the U.S. auto industry ...

You: 'Obama bailed out GM to avoid bankruptcy court, but GM wound up there anyway.'
You mentioned NOTHING of GWB who actually bailed out the two. Obama just agreed to buy the company...different ball game.

And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout

FALSE.

If Bush's $17.4B was enough to save them, then $62.6B more from Obama wouldn't have been necessary.

They did 'save' Chrysler AND it did (temporarily) save GM. And there is no factual proof that GM would not have survived (in some form) without 'Government Motors'.
Prove using an unbiased link, that it is 100% certain that GM would have completely failed had Government Motors not happened (BTW - you cannot)? Without that, you cannot accurately say that Government Motors saved GM.

Now who made the initial bailouts to Chrysler and GM...GWB or Obama?

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-announces-174-billion-auto-bailout-016740

 

[McRocket]

I'm sure the tariffs are going to affect more than Chipotle. But, we can pretend differently.

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

You

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months....

I understand that is your prediction, we can look at this again once the data is in. Certainly it has gone great so far. An additional $6B or so in GDP and $3B or so in tariffs and nice stable prices for consumers. Show me anyone but Trump that predicted it would all go this well.

We were assured that this would be an unmitigated disaster, and now that it obviously isn't, we are getting "But it will later!" That's just taking the unknown and filling it with your imagination, not unlike the map makers of old who pointed to the unexplored areas and wrote: "Thar there be Dragons!"

That is not added to the GDP. Most of that tariff money comes from American consumers/companies...so it is not added to the GDP.

But okay, show me a link to unbiased, factual proof that even 1/2 of the tariff money was NOT paid for by American companies or consumers to the US government?

It reduces the amount subtracted, dollar for dollar. As for you other claim, the complete lack of price inflation is a strong evidence that the tariffs are not being passed onto US Consumers.

As for producers, I don't see price pressure there either:

Once again, show us an unbiased link that proved that even 50% of the Chinese tariffs paid so far came from China?

Or your words mean NOTHING on this.


Sorry....but you are urinating in the wind as you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Explainer: Who pays Trump's tariffs - China and other exporters or U.S. customers?

...

'PAID AT CUSTOMS
A tariff is a tax on imports. The CBP typically requires importers to pay the duties within 10 days of their shipments clearing customs.

So the tariffs are paid to the U.S. government by importing companies. Most importers of Chinese-made goods are U.S. companies, or the U.S.-registered units of foreign companies that import goods from China.


Every item imported into the United States legally has a customs code. Importers are expected to check the tariffs and other taxes and duties due on the goods they bring in, calculate what they owe, and pay it.

The CBP reviews the payments. If it discovers an underpayment, U.S. customs will send the importer a fresh bill.'

Explainer: Who pays Trump's tariffs - China and other exporters or U.S. customers? - Reuters

 

[whitehall]

IMF- "189 countries looking for global monetary cooperation". If the IMF was looking for monetary cooperation they would side with the U.S. regarding unfair trade practices by China that everyone knows about. My guess is that most of the 189 countries are out to extort money from Uncle Sam. Actually there is very little evidence that the tariffs are hurting the U.S and in the long run the U.S. stands to come out way ahead. Isn't that a good thing?

 

[Zorro!]

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

You

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months....

I understand that is your prediction, we can look at this again once the data is in. Certainly it has gone great so far. An additional $6B or so in GDP and $3B or so in tariffs and nice stable prices for consumers. Show me anyone but Trump that predicted it would all go this well.

We were assured that this would be an unmitigated disaster, and now that it obviously isn't, we are getting "But it will later!" That's just taking the unknown and filling it with your imagination, not unlike the map makers of old who pointed to the unexplored areas and wrote: "Thar there be Dragons!"

That is not added to the GDP. Most of that tariff money comes from American consumers/companies...so it is not added to the GDP.

But okay, show me a link to unbiased, factual proof that even 1/2 of the tariff money was NOT paid for by American companies or consumers to the US government?

It reduces the amount subtracted, dollar for dollar. As for you other claim, the complete lack of price inflation is a strong evidence that the tariffs are not being passed onto US Consumers.

As for producers, I don't see price pressure there either:

So...if a US consumer/company pays a tariff to the U.S. Government, this adds to the overall GDP of America?

Yes or no, please?

Of course not, it directly adds to Treasury revenue.

The formula for GDP is: GDP = C + I + G + X

C equals spending by consumers
I equals investment by businesses
G equals government spending and
X equals net exports

For countries running a surplus, X is a positive contributor.
For countries running a deficit, X is a subtraction.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The 10 cent tariffs against China didn't, on balance, result in consumer price inflation.

This nickle tariff is unlikely to either.

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

The Real Reason American Jobs Are Going to China

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months.


And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Who is claiming that the initial bailouts of the auto industry were under Obama? He wasn't even President. He put up the first 16 or 15B of the total $80B.

Obama used to brag about bailing out the auto industry, now he wants to pretend that was all Bush too?

As Obama Takes Victory Lap Over Auto Industry Rescue, Here Are ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/.../obamas-takes-victory-lap-over-auto-industry-rescue/
Jan 20, 2016 - Free marketeers and free traders who like to stand on principle will never be convinced that the U.S. Treasury's bailout of the U.S. auto industry ...

You: 'Obama bailed out GM to avoid bankruptcy court, but GM wound up there anyway.'
You mentioned NOTHING of GWB who actually bailed out the two. Obama just agreed to buy the company...different ball game.

And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout

FALSE.

If Bush's $17.4B was enough to save them, then $62.6B more from Obama wouldn't have been necessary.

They did 'save' Chrysler AND it did (temporarily) save GM. And there is no factual proof that GM would not have survived (in some form) without 'Government Motors'.
Prove using an unbiased link, that it is 100% certain that GM would have completely failed had Government Motors not happened (BTW - you cannot)? Without that, you cannot accurately say that Government Motors saved GM.

Now who made the initial bailouts to Chrysler and GM...GWB or Obama?

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-announces-174-billion-auto-bailout-016740

Of course there is American airlines was fine with no bail out and went through bankruptcy.

It was all about saving the GM Union pension funds

 

[Ambivalent1]

Barry quadrupled the bailout money.

 

[Zorro!]

IMF- "189 countries looking for global monetary cooperation". If the IMF was looking for monetary cooperation they would side with the U.S. regarding unfair trade practices by China that everyone knows about. My guess is that most of the 189 countries are out to extort money from Uncle Sam. Actually there is very little evidence that the tariffs are hurting the U.S and in the long run the U.S. stands to come out way ahead. Isn't that a good thing?

If you support American Workers, yes.

 

[Zorro!]

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

The Real Reason American Jobs Are Going to China

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months.


And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Who is claiming that the initial bailouts of the auto industry were under Obama? He wasn't even President. He put up the first 16 or 15B of the total $80B.

Obama used to brag about bailing out the auto industry, now he wants to pretend that was all Bush too?

As Obama Takes Victory Lap Over Auto Industry Rescue, Here Are ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/.../obamas-takes-victory-lap-over-auto-industry-rescue/
Jan 20, 2016 - Free marketeers and free traders who like to stand on principle will never be convinced that the U.S. Treasury's bailout of the U.S. auto industry ...

You: 'Obama bailed out GM to avoid bankruptcy court, but GM wound up there anyway.'
You mentioned NOTHING of GWB who actually bailed out the two. Obama just agreed to buy the company...different ball game.

And I will ask you again:

The initial bailouts that 'saved' GM and Chrysler were under Bush?

True or False, please?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout

FALSE.

If Bush's $17.4B was enough to save them, then $62.6B more from Obama wouldn't have been necessary.

They did 'save' Chrysler AND it did (temporarily) save GM. And there is no factual proof that GM would not have survived (in some form) without 'Government Motors'.
Prove using an unbiased link, that it is 100% certain that GM would have completely failed had Government Motors not happened (BTW - you cannot)? Without that, you cannot accurately say that Government Motors saved GM.

Now who made the initial bailouts to Chrysler and GM...GWB or Obama?

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/12/bush-announces-174-billion-auto-bailout-016740

Of course there is American airlines was fine with no bail out and went through bankruptcy.

It was all about saving the GM Union pension funds

YUP. Using our money to buy votes.

 

[McRocket]

You

Are you serious?

How can 10% of only a part of about 2% of the entire economy going to send inflation skyrocketing?

Wait until the tariffs are FULLY in place and have been so for many months....

I understand that is your prediction, we can look at this again once the data is in. Certainly it has gone great so far. An additional $6B or so in GDP and $3B or so in tariffs and nice stable prices for consumers. Show me anyone but Trump that predicted it would all go this well.

We were assured that this would be an unmitigated disaster, and now that it obviously isn't, we are getting "But it will later!" That's just taking the unknown and filling it with your imagination, not unlike the map makers of old who pointed to the unexplored areas and wrote: "Thar there be Dragons!"

That is not added to the GDP. Most of that tariff money comes from American consumers/companies...so it is not added to the GDP.

But okay, show me a link to unbiased, factual proof that even 1/2 of the tariff money was NOT paid for by American companies or consumers to the US government?

It reduces the amount subtracted, dollar for dollar. As for you other claim, the complete lack of price inflation is a strong evidence that the tariffs are not being passed onto US Consumers.

As for producers, I don't see price pressure there either:

So...if a US consumer/company pays a tariff to the U.S. Government, this adds to the overall GDP of America?

Yes or no, please?

Of course not, it directly adds to Treasury revenue.

The formula for GDP is: GDP = C + I + G + X

C equals spending by consumers
I equals investment by businesses
G equals government spending and
X equals net exports

For countries running a surplus, X is a positive contributor.
For countries running a deficit, X is a subtraction.

Sorry....but you are urinating in the wind as you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Explainer: Who pays Trump's tariffs - China and other exporters or U.S. customers?

...

'PAID AT CUSTOMS
A tariff is a tax on imports. The CBP typically requires importers to pay the duties within 10 days of their shipments clearing customs.

So the tariffs are paid to the U.S. government by importing companies. Most importers of Chinese-made goods are U.S. companies, or the U.S.-registered units of foreign companies that import goods from China.


Every item imported into the United States legally has a customs code. Importers are expected to check the tariffs and other taxes and duties due on the goods they bring in, calculate what they owe, and pay it.

The CBP reviews the payments. If it discovers an underpayment, U.S. customs will send the importer a fresh bill.'

Explainer: Who pays Trump's tariffs - China and other exporters or U.S. customers? - Reuters


I will not argue with you on this any more. It is COMMON KNOWLEDGE that Americans will pay the VAST majority of US import tariffs. That falls under the 'well duh' label.

You want to disagree with reality - take it up with Wall Street.

We are done on this part.


Now...back to the auto bailouts...which you keep avoiding to answer the INCREDIBLY obvious question:

Now who made the initial bailouts to Chrysler and GM...GWB or Obama?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout

 

[Zorro!]

I understand that is your prediction, we can look at this again once the data is in. Certainly it has gone great so far. An additional $6B or so in GDP and $3B or so in tariffs and nice stable prices for consumers. Show me anyone but Trump that predicted it would all go this well.

We were assured that this would be an unmitigated disaster, and now that it obviously isn't, we are getting "But it will later!" That's just taking the unknown and filling it with your imagination, not unlike the map makers of old who pointed to the unexplored areas and wrote: "Thar there be Dragons!"

That is not added to the GDP. Most of that tariff money comes from American consumers/companies...so it is not added to the GDP.

But okay, show me a link to unbiased, factual proof that even 1/2 of the tariff money was NOT paid for by American companies or consumers to the US government?

It reduces the amount subtracted, dollar for dollar. As for you other claim, the complete lack of price inflation is a strong evidence that the tariffs are not being passed onto US Consumers.

As for producers, I don't see price pressure there either:

So...if a US consumer/company pays a tariff to the U.S. Government, this adds to the overall GDP of America?

Yes or no, please?

Of course not, it directly adds to Treasury revenue.

The formula for GDP is: GDP = C + I + G + X

C equals spending by consumers
I equals investment by businesses
G equals government spending and
X equals net exports

For countries running a surplus, X is a positive contributor.
For countries running a deficit, X is a subtraction.

Sorry....but you are urinating in the wind as you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Explainer: Who pays Trump's tariffs - China and other exporters or U.S. customers?

The importer directly pays, if they don't switch to another supplier, that's up to them. They could pass it on to customers, but our very stable prices indicates that this is not occurring.

So the tariffs are paid to the U.S. government by importing companies....

This is known.

 

[McRocket]

That is not added to the GDP. Most of that tariff money comes from American consumers/companies...so it is not added to the GDP.

But okay, show me a link to unbiased, factual proof that even 1/2 of the tariff money was NOT paid for by American companies or consumers to the US government?

It reduces the amount subtracted, dollar for dollar. As for you other claim, the complete lack of price inflation is a strong evidence that the tariffs are not being passed onto US Consumers.

As for producers, I don't see price pressure there either:

So...if a US consumer/company pays a tariff to the U.S. Government, this adds to the overall GDP of America?

Yes or no, please?

Of course not, it directly adds to Treasury revenue.

The formula for GDP is: GDP = C + I + G + X

C equals spending by consumers
I equals investment by businesses
G equals government spending and
X equals net exports

For countries running a surplus, X is a positive contributor.
For countries running a deficit, X is a subtraction.

Sorry....but you are urinating in the wind as you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Explainer: Who pays Trump's tariffs - China and other exporters or U.S. customers?

The importer directly pays, if they don't switch to another supplier, that's up to them. They could pass it on to customers, but our very stable prices indicates that this is not occurring.

So the tariffs are paid to the U.S. government by importing companies....

This is known.

And again...you avoid answering the INCREDIBLY, simple question:


Now who made the initial bailouts to Chrysler and GM...GWB or Obama?

Bush announces $17.4 billion auto bailout