Imagine if capitalism was left unfettered and free of government intervention or regulation

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not the GSEs MBSs which are guaranteed against default.

And that guarantee only required $187 billion in TARP bailouts and a government takeover.

Yeah, and it required $182 billion to bail out the private insurer AIG. And another $350 billion to bail out the rest of the banks. Not to mention the nearly $2 trillion in quantitative easing to prop up the entire private banking system.

Yeah, and it required $182 billion to bail out the private insurer AIG. And another $350 billion to bail out the rest of the banks.

Yup. So now that we agree that the agencies played a large role in the crisis...….

So now that we agree that the agencies played a large role in the crisis...….
We can stop pretending it was entirely the fault of the agencies.

Who ever claimed that it was?
But when you add that much demand for crap......a supply springs up, that's for damn sure.

A poster in this thread suggested the GSEs were to blame.

Well, they did hold $1.2 trillion in crap mortgages by 2002.
That's a huge chunk of the crap market.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

People are dumb. Reason Amazon can pay workers less is because those workers readily accept those jobs knowing the remainders will be made up by food stamps and other gov't subsidies. Make it more difficult to get these subsidies and Amazon will be forced to pay more.

It used to be wages went up when unemployment was low. That's not happening. I don't have as much confidence in your theory as I used to...

Bob Smith makes $10 an hour...he pays zero taxes, qualifies for food stamps to feed his fam and has a part time gig where he does contractor type work and makes an additional $200/week. He drives a Lexus and lives in a rent control apartment. If he makes $15/hour he loses the flex of food stamps and rent control and he may have to pay taxes so it actually mean he makes less in the end when he makes $15/hour.

 

[Tehon]

But when you add that much demand for crap......a supply springs up, that's for damn sure.

Sure, like the demand created by the private non banking sector who were offering up subprime loans in high interest tranches.

 

[Tehon]

Yeah, and it required $182 billion to bail out the private insurer AIG. And another $350 billion to bail out the rest of the banks. Not to mention the nearly $2 trillion in quantitative easing to prop up the entire private banking system.

Yeah, and it required $182 billion to bail out the private insurer AIG. And another $350 billion to bail out the rest of the banks.

Yup. So now that we agree that the agencies played a large role in the crisis...….

So now that we agree that the agencies played a large role in the crisis...….
We can stop pretending it was entirely the fault of the agencies.

Who ever claimed that it was?
But when you add that much demand for crap......a supply springs up, that's for damn sure.

A poster in this thread suggested the GSEs were to blame.

Well, they did hold $1.2 trillion in crap mortgages by 2002.
That's a huge chunk of the crap market.

Their market share declined after 2002. The private sector was driving the subprime market.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, and it required $182 billion to bail out the private insurer AIG. And another $350 billion to bail out the rest of the banks.

Yup. So now that we agree that the agencies played a large role in the crisis...….

So now that we agree that the agencies played a large role in the crisis...….
We can stop pretending it was entirely the fault of the agencies.

Who ever claimed that it was?
But when you add that much demand for crap......a supply springs up, that's for damn sure.

A poster in this thread suggested the GSEs were to blame.

Well, they did hold $1.2 trillion in crap mortgages by 2002.
That's a huge chunk of the crap market.

Their market share declined after 2002. The private sector was driving the subprime market.

And yet, their total holdings of crap didn't decline.
Of course they had to slow the growth of their balance sheet during their accounting scandal.
Damn scumbags.

 

[Tehon]

So now that we agree that the agencies played a large role in the crisis...….
We can stop pretending it was entirely the fault of the agencies.

Who ever claimed that it was?
But when you add that much demand for crap......a supply springs up, that's for damn sure.

A poster in this thread suggested the GSEs were to blame.

Well, they did hold $1.2 trillion in crap mortgages by 2002.
That's a huge chunk of the crap market.

Their market share declined after 2002. The private sector was driving the subprime market.

And yet, their total holdings of crap didn't decline.
Of course they had to slow the growth of their balance sheet during their accounting scandal.
Damn scumbags.

Well, they are capitalists after all.

 

[Billy000]

I wonder if the automobile, the telephone, television etc...etc...would of been invented yet if the world didn't go to capitalism?



.

That’s a pointless argument because what I am suggesting has nothing to do with ending capitalism. God you people are dumb.

It's no more pointless than your ridiculous question. The government will NEVER take its hand out of the cookie jar.

And you will never stop relying on the government as much as you choose to deny it.

 

[Brain357]

People are dumb. Reason Amazon can pay workers less is because those workers readily accept those jobs knowing the remainders will be made up by food stamps and other gov't subsidies. Make it more difficult to get these subsidies and Amazon will be forced to pay more.

It used to be wages went up when unemployment was low. That's not happening. I don't have as much confidence in your theory as I used to...

Bob Smith makes $10 an hour...he pays zero taxes, qualifies for food stamps to feed his fam and has a part time gig where he does contractor type work and makes an additional $200/week. He drives a Lexus and lives in a rent control apartment. If he makes $15/hour he loses the flex of food stamps and rent control and he may have to pay taxes so it actually mean he makes less in the end when he makes $15/hour.

Interesting theory, you have any support for it? With wages so stagnant I think the higher paying jobs just don't exist. Now that may be caused by employers knowing it's too easy to get government support, but I'm really not sure why wages are so stagnant.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

I wonder if the automobile, the telephone, television etc...etc...would of been invented yet if the world didn't go to capitalism?

I would like to explain why this is such a nonsensical statement, but it's going to take me at least five years.

 

[caddo kid]

if we had no regulations the US would likely be more polluted than China & there would likely be no clean water to drink & only badly polluted air to breath.

Who the Hell needs clean water & clean air? Ask a Republican; they hate regulations.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I wonder if the automobile, the telephone, television etc...etc...would of been invented yet if the world didn't go to capitalism?



.

That’s a pointless argument because what I am suggesting has nothing to do with ending capitalism. God you people are dumb.

It's no more pointless than your ridiculous question. The government will NEVER take its hand out of the cookie jar.

And you will never stop relying on the government as much as you choose to deny it.

For what? Lol

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

People are dumb. Reason Amazon can pay workers less is because those workers readily accept those jobs knowing the remainders will be made up by food stamps and other gov't subsidies. Make it more difficult to get these subsidies and Amazon will be forced to pay more.

It used to be wages went up when unemployment was low. That's not happening. I don't have as much confidence in your theory as I used to...

Bob Smith makes $10 an hour...he pays zero taxes, qualifies for food stamps to feed his fam and has a part time gig where he does contractor type work and makes an additional $200/week. He drives a Lexus and lives in a rent control apartment. If he makes $15/hour he loses the flex of food stamps and rent control and he may have to pay taxes so it actually mean he makes less in the end when he makes $15/hour.

Interesting theory, you have any support for it? With wages so stagnant I think the higher paying jobs just don't exist. Now that may be caused by employers knowing it's too easy to get government support, but I'm really not sure why wages are so stagnant.

They aren't stagnant in all fields. It is supply/demand. If you are a banker and Bank of America is paying you $150k/year, you may or may not get 2-3% raises annually. If you want a true adjustment you need a promotion OR you move to Chase and they pay you $175k. Human Resources due to economic stagnation has not had to give major adjustments but now with baby boomers close to retirement and the demand almost outpacing the supply the wage growth begins with corporations. But even for the wealthy white collar persons. If under BHO I made $245k all in and was in the 35% tax bracket, me getting $255k all in causes to go into a higher tax bracket and I lose some deductions so I am actually worse off. That has been true for a long time.

So the same applies to hourly workers. So long as they make under a certain threshold, they are better off as they qualify for EIC, food stamps, rent control, more flexibility to do under the table jobs, etc. You start increasing the wage and that goes away for them.

 

[Brain357]

People are dumb. Reason Amazon can pay workers less is because those workers readily accept those jobs knowing the remainders will be made up by food stamps and other gov't subsidies. Make it more difficult to get these subsidies and Amazon will be forced to pay more.

It used to be wages went up when unemployment was low. That's not happening. I don't have as much confidence in your theory as I used to...

Bob Smith makes $10 an hour...he pays zero taxes, qualifies for food stamps to feed his fam and has a part time gig where he does contractor type work and makes an additional $200/week. He drives a Lexus and lives in a rent control apartment. If he makes $15/hour he loses the flex of food stamps and rent control and he may have to pay taxes so it actually mean he makes less in the end when he makes $15/hour.

Interesting theory, you have any support for it? With wages so stagnant I think the higher paying jobs just don't exist. Now that may be caused by employers knowing it's too easy to get government support, but I'm really not sure why wages are so stagnant.

They aren't stagnant in all fields. It is supply/demand. If you are a banker and Bank of America is paying you $150k/year, you may or may not get 2-3% raises annually. If you want a true adjustment you need a promotion OR you move to Chase and they pay you $175k. Human Resources due to economic stagnation has not had to give major adjustments but now with baby boomers close to retirement and the demand almost outpacing the supply the wage growth begins with corporations. But even for the wealthy white collar persons. If under BHO I made $245k all in and was in the 35% tax bracket, me getting $255k all in causes to go into a higher tax bracket and I lose some deductions so I am actually worse off. That has been true for a long time.

So the same applies to hourly workers. So long as they make under a certain threshold, they are better off as they qualify for EIC, food stamps, rent control, more flexibility to do under the table jobs, etc. You start increasing the wage and that goes away for them.

That has all been true for a long time, but in the past wages have still increased when we've had lower unemployment.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I wonder if the automobile, the telephone, television etc...etc...would of been invented yet if the world didn't go to capitalism?

I would like to explain why this is such a nonsensical statement, but it's going to take me at least five years.

Yea we no your a ditzy blond, but remind us what the socialist/communist country's invented/mass produced?


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

People are dumb. Reason Amazon can pay workers less is because those workers readily accept those jobs knowing the remainders will be made up by food stamps and other gov't subsidies. Make it more difficult to get these subsidies and Amazon will be forced to pay more.

It used to be wages went up when unemployment was low. That's not happening. I don't have as much confidence in your theory as I used to...

Bob Smith makes $10 an hour...he pays zero taxes, qualifies for food stamps to feed his fam and has a part time gig where he does contractor type work and makes an additional $200/week. He drives a Lexus and lives in a rent control apartment. If he makes $15/hour he loses the flex of food stamps and rent control and he may have to pay taxes so it actually mean he makes less in the end when he makes $15/hour.

Interesting theory, you have any support for it? With wages so stagnant I think the higher paying jobs just don't exist. Now that may be caused by employers knowing it's too easy to get government support, but I'm really not sure why wages are so stagnant.

They aren't stagnant in all fields. It is supply/demand. If you are a banker and Bank of America is paying you $150k/year, you may or may not get 2-3% raises annually. If you want a true adjustment you need a promotion OR you move to Chase and they pay you $175k. Human Resources due to economic stagnation has not had to give major adjustments but now with baby boomers close to retirement and the demand almost outpacing the supply the wage growth begins with corporations. But even for the wealthy white collar persons. If under BHO I made $245k all in and was in the 35% tax bracket, me getting $255k all in causes to go into a higher tax bracket and I lose some deductions so I am actually worse off. That has been true for a long time.

So the same applies to hourly workers. So long as they make under a certain threshold, they are better off as they qualify for EIC, food stamps, rent control, more flexibility to do under the table jobs, etc. You start increasing the wage and that goes away for them.

That has all been true for a long time, but in the past wages have still increased when we've had lower unemployment.

Ever think that the higher priced baby boomers have been retiring and being replaced with lower pay millennials? And considering the baby boomers are retired don't you think medical/health care cost has risen and taken a huge junk out of employees benefits? Read like 30%


.

 

[Billy000]

I wonder if the automobile, the telephone, television etc...etc...would of been invented yet if the world didn't go to capitalism?



.

That’s a pointless argument because what I am suggesting has nothing to do with ending capitalism. God you people are dumb.

It's no more pointless than your ridiculous question. The government will NEVER take its hand out of the cookie jar.

And you will never stop relying on the government as much as you choose to deny it.

For what? Lol

Law enforcement, public roads, social security, national security, FDA and EPA regulations....

 

[Brain357]

It used to be wages went up when unemployment was low. That's not happening. I don't have as much confidence in your theory as I used to...

Bob Smith makes $10 an hour...he pays zero taxes, qualifies for food stamps to feed his fam and has a part time gig where he does contractor type work and makes an additional $200/week. He drives a Lexus and lives in a rent control apartment. If he makes $15/hour he loses the flex of food stamps and rent control and he may have to pay taxes so it actually mean he makes less in the end when he makes $15/hour.

Interesting theory, you have any support for it? With wages so stagnant I think the higher paying jobs just don't exist. Now that may be caused by employers knowing it's too easy to get government support, but I'm really not sure why wages are so stagnant.

They aren't stagnant in all fields. It is supply/demand. If you are a banker and Bank of America is paying you $150k/year, you may or may not get 2-3% raises annually. If you want a true adjustment you need a promotion OR you move to Chase and they pay you $175k. Human Resources due to economic stagnation has not had to give major adjustments but now with baby boomers close to retirement and the demand almost outpacing the supply the wage growth begins with corporations. But even for the wealthy white collar persons. If under BHO I made $245k all in and was in the 35% tax bracket, me getting $255k all in causes to go into a higher tax bracket and I lose some deductions so I am actually worse off. That has been true for a long time.

So the same applies to hourly workers. So long as they make under a certain threshold, they are better off as they qualify for EIC, food stamps, rent control, more flexibility to do under the table jobs, etc. You start increasing the wage and that goes away for them.

That has all been true for a long time, but in the past wages have still increased when we've had lower unemployment.

Ever think that the higher priced baby boomers have been retiring and being replaced with lower pay millennials? And considering the baby boomers are retired don't you think medical/health care cost has risen and taken a huge junk out of employees benefits? Read like 30%


.

You must have some real numbers to support your theory?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I wonder if the automobile, the telephone, television etc...etc...would of been invented yet if the world didn't go to capitalism?



.

That’s a pointless argument because what I am suggesting has nothing to do with ending capitalism. God you people are dumb.

It's no more pointless than your ridiculous question. The government will NEVER take its hand out of the cookie jar.

And you will never stop relying on the government as much as you choose to deny it.

For what? Lol

Law enforcement, public roads, social security, national security, FDA and EPA regulations....

I don't rely on them so much as I PAY FOR THEM.

Try again

 

[Billy000]

That’s a pointless argument because what I am suggesting has nothing to do with ending capitalism. God you people are dumb.

It's no more pointless than your ridiculous question. The government will NEVER take its hand out of the cookie jar.

And you will never stop relying on the government as much as you choose to deny it.

For what? Lol

Law enforcement, public roads, social security, national security, FDA and EPA regulations....

I don't rely on them so much as I PAY FOR THEM.

Try again

Yep, now shut up and stop whining about this cookie jar non sense, you mooch.

 

[Kondor3]

Unfettered capitalism =

No point giving the Robber Barons the Keys to the Kingdom...

They'll turn it into a sewer.