CDZ If you were a Founding Father...

[2aguy]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

This is what Thomas Jefferson actually did....

Thomas Jefferson's goal: Ending slavery? - WND - WND

Barton told Beck that Jefferson’s attempts to gradually eliminate slavery were a consistent part of his career.

“When he came in as a young legislator in Virginia, first thing he did was introduce laws to start ending slavery,” Barton said.

Barton also explained that Jefferson was unable to free his slaves because of Virginia law at that time.

“He owned slaves, he inherited nearly 200 slaves,” Barton told Beck. “When he was 14 years old, he inherited his first group of slaves that were given to him. And so under Virginia law you’re not allowed to free what you inherit. Any slaves, the dowry slaves is what they call them, you can’t free inherited slaves.”

Barton argued Jefferson’s first foray into abolitionism was a disaster.

“He’s got all this stuff with Virginia law, and so he introduces a law in the legislature to get it banned, and they just tear him up,” Barton observed. “He and Richard Bland, Richard Bland was the senior legislator.”

But rather than backing down, Barton said Jefferson continued his abolitionist efforts all through his career.


“When he enters the Continental Congress, he introduces a law to ban slavery in all the colonies,” Barton said. “Every one of them. It failed by one vote.”

He said Jefferson regretted that failure until the end of his life.

Beck noted George Washington freed his slaves upon his death and asked Barton why Jefferson did not follow Washington’s example. Barton explained the American Revolution and the egalitarian ideals led to changes in the law, which made it easier to emancipate slaves. However, Thomas Jefferson had another problem – debt.

“They also had a law that said if you’re in debt you can’t free any slaves,” Barton said. “Jefferson, by today’s standards about two and a half million dollars in debt, is not able to free his slaves, and they changed the laws. He said this: ‘The laws will not allow me to turn them loose.'”

Still, Beck observed that while Jefferson cannot be excused for owning slaves, he not only tried to end slavery in the U.S. but worked to end the institution in other nations, including France. Barton also noted Jefferson paid his slaves, which he didn’t have to do.

Despite Jefferson owning slaves, he was remembered until recently as one of the great anti-slavery crusaders by men such as Frederick Douglass. Barton also recounted the tributes paid to Jefferson by John Quincy Adams, who was called the “hellhound of abolition.” A speech by Adams “praised Jefferson for the lead role he took in trying to end slavery,” Barton said.

 

[2aguy]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

More on Thomas Jefferson and his actual attempts to end slavery....

Thomas Jefferson and slavery - Wikipedia

In 1778, with Jefferson's leadership, slave importation was banned in Virginia, one of the first jurisdictions worldwide to do so. Jefferson was a lifelong advocate of ending the trade and as president led the effort to criminalize the international slave trade that passed Congress and he signed in 1807, shortly before Britain passed a similar law.[5]

In 1779, as a practical solution to end the legal enslavement of humans, Jefferson supported gradual emancipation, training, and colonization of African-American slaves rather than unconditional manumission, believing that releasing unprepared people with no place to go and no means to support themselves would only bring them misfortune. In 1784, Jefferson proposed federal legislation banning slavery in the New Territories of the North and South after 1800, which failed to pass Congress by one vote.[6][7] In his Notes on the State of Virginia, published in 1785, Jefferson expressed the beliefs that slavery corrupted both masters and slaves alike, supported colonization of freed slaves, promoted the idea that African-Americans were inferior in intelligence, and that emancipating large numbers of slaves made slave uprisings more likely.[8] In 1794 and 1796, Jefferson manumitted by deed two of males he had kept as slaves; they had been trained and were qualified to hold employment.

 

[JoeMoma]

There is no way to say how a person would think back then, you and everyone would think differently back then, because they would be raised differently and influenced differently.


Now, are you saying, if we are time travelers knowing what we know now? Going back in time?

Sometimes I have to laugh when some starts out saying " If I were you I would....." Sometimes I will tell that person that if he were me then he would do exactly what I would do, otherwise he would not be me, he would be someone who is not me.

If I were that time traveler that became a founding father, I would be on the side of the abolitionists. That being said, I would not want to create any negative time paradoxes by changing history.

 

[OldLady]

There was no way to get the Southern states to sign on if slavery were outlawed, but I probably would not have bragged about "All men are created equal" back in 1776, knowing that we were holding humans in slavery and keeping it legal.

That was a Declaration against the British aristocracy that even abolitionists signed. It is easy to criticize people who were dealing with irresolvable issues 250 years ago.

I know what it was and I agree if the Founding Fathers wanted a country to "Found," they had to accept slavery, at least for the time being. I was simply responding to the OP's question.

 

[OldLady]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

More on Thomas Jefferson and his actual attempts to end slavery....

Thomas Jefferson and slavery - Wikipedia

In 1778, with Jefferson's leadership, slave importation was banned in Virginia, one of the first jurisdictions worldwide to do so. Jefferson was a lifelong advocate of ending the trade and as president led the effort to criminalize the international slave trade that passed Congress and he signed in 1807, shortly before Britain passed a similar law.[5]

In 1779, as a practical solution to end the legal enslavement of humans, Jefferson supported gradual emancipation, training, and colonization of African-American slaves rather than unconditional manumission, believing that releasing unprepared people with no place to go and no means to support themselves would only bring them misfortune. In 1784, Jefferson proposed federal legislation banning slavery in the New Territories of the North and South after 1800, which failed to pass Congress by one vote.[6][7] In his Notes on the State of Virginia, published in 1785, Jefferson expressed the beliefs that slavery corrupted both masters and slaves alike, supported colonization of freed slaves, promoted the idea that African-Americans were inferior in intelligence, and that emancipating large numbers of slaves made slave uprisings more likely.[8] In 1794 and 1796, Jefferson manumitted by deed two of males he had kept as slaves; they had been trained and were qualified to hold employment.

He had a beautiful mind. But for all that, he never freed his own slaves.
How many people did Thomas Jefferson own?
Thomas Jefferson enslaved over 600 human beings throughout the course of his life. 400 people were enslaved at Monticello; the other 200 people were held in bondage on Jefferson’s other properties. At any given time, around 130 people were enslaved at Monticello.
Slavery at Monticello FAQs - Property

 

[2aguy]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

More on Thomas Jefferson and his actual attempts to end slavery....

Thomas Jefferson and slavery - Wikipedia

In 1778, with Jefferson's leadership, slave importation was banned in Virginia, one of the first jurisdictions worldwide to do so. Jefferson was a lifelong advocate of ending the trade and as president led the effort to criminalize the international slave trade that passed Congress and he signed in 1807, shortly before Britain passed a similar law.[5]

In 1779, as a practical solution to end the legal enslavement of humans, Jefferson supported gradual emancipation, training, and colonization of African-American slaves rather than unconditional manumission, believing that releasing unprepared people with no place to go and no means to support themselves would only bring them misfortune. In 1784, Jefferson proposed federal legislation banning slavery in the New Territories of the North and South after 1800, which failed to pass Congress by one vote.[6][7] In his Notes on the State of Virginia, published in 1785, Jefferson expressed the beliefs that slavery corrupted both masters and slaves alike, supported colonization of freed slaves, promoted the idea that African-Americans were inferior in intelligence, and that emancipating large numbers of slaves made slave uprisings more likely.[8] In 1794 and 1796, Jefferson manumitted by deed two of males he had kept as slaves; they had been trained and were qualified to hold employment.

He had a beautiful mind. But for all that, he never freed his own slaves.
How many people did Thomas Jefferson own?
Thomas Jefferson enslaved over 600 human beings throughout the course of his life. 400 people were enslaved at Monticello; the other 200 people were held in bondage on Jefferson’s other properties. At any given time, around 130 people were enslaved at Monticello.
Slavery at Monticello FAQs - Property

Apparently his debt made it against the law to free those slaves.....

 

[rjs330]

I would have done more to find a way to free.the slaves at a later date and still found the country. Keeping slavery was the only way to make sure the country was founded. But I would have tried to find someway to make it easier in the future to free them. I have no idea if it would have been possible back then. But I would have tried.

They did.

I know they did. It's hard to know exactly what they tried because we just have the end result. We don't really know all they did to try. I hate to say it, bit I don't know that they were as committed to end slavery because they looked at it differently. After all many owned slaves.

Don't misunderstand, I love our founders and I think Washington was one of the greatest men ever. Going back in time to be a founder I would try and get trickier to get the slaves free at a later date without a war

Check their papers.....they actually wrote extensively about the issue and you have the debates on the issue from the convention...

You know I think I should do that!

 

[Dekster]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

Seized them and dispersed them to Africa or the Caribbean. I don't have problems with black people today, but at the time, that would probably have been the best way to handle it. Rip the bandage off.....

 

[Picaro]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

More on Thomas Jefferson and his actual attempts to end slavery....

Thomas Jefferson and slavery - Wikipedia

In 1778, with Jefferson's leadership, slave importation was banned in Virginia, one of the first jurisdictions worldwide to do so. Jefferson was a lifelong advocate of ending the trade and as president led the effort to criminalize the international slave trade that passed Congress and he signed in 1807, shortly before Britain passed a similar law.[5]

In 1779, as a practical solution to end the legal enslavement of humans, Jefferson supported gradual emancipation, training, and colonization of African-American slaves rather than unconditional manumission, believing that releasing unprepared people with no place to go and no means to support themselves would only bring them misfortune. In 1784, Jefferson proposed federal legislation banning slavery in the New Territories of the North and South after 1800, which failed to pass Congress by one vote.[6][7] In his Notes on the State of Virginia, published in 1785, Jefferson expressed the beliefs that slavery corrupted both masters and slaves alike, supported colonization of freed slaves, promoted the idea that African-Americans were inferior in intelligence, and that emancipating large numbers of slaves made slave uprisings more likely.[8] In 1794 and 1796, Jefferson manumitted by deed two of males he had kept as slaves; they had been trained and were qualified to hold employment.

He had a beautiful mind. But for all that, he never freed his own slaves.
How many people did Thomas Jefferson own?
Thomas Jefferson enslaved over 600 human beings throughout the course of his life. 400 people were enslaved at Monticello; the other 200 people were held in bondage on Jefferson’s other properties. At any given time, around 130 people were enslaved at Monticello.
Slavery at Monticello FAQs - Property

Apparently his debt made it against the law to free those slaves.....

Only those he inherited from his wife's family. He owned over 600 during his life, and bragged about how great an investment they were, averaging 10% a year on the business, and highly recommended the business to his friends as a great investment. And yes, they made great collateral, but that isn't why he never freed but a tiny few.

In any case, it's of no importance now, despite all the fake hypocrisy. Blacks are fine with slavery, always have been, and those who did indeed got freed and went back to Africa to set up a colony promptly set themselves up as slave plantation owners in Liberia, so much for the fake Pity Party for left wing sniveling over imaginary non-existent 'problems'. We have international airports at many convenient locations around the country for those who can't bear to live in this hell hole of racism and white people, and they have flights leaving around the clock.

 

[Picaro]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

More on Thomas Jefferson and his actual attempts to end slavery....

Thomas Jefferson and slavery - Wikipedia

In 1778, with Jefferson's leadership, slave importation was banned in Virginia, one of the first jurisdictions worldwide to do so. Jefferson was a lifelong advocate of ending the trade and as president led the effort to criminalize the international slave trade that passed Congress and he signed in 1807, shortly before Britain passed a similar law.[5]

In 1779, as a practical solution to end the legal enslavement of humans, Jefferson supported gradual emancipation, training, and colonization of African-American slaves rather than unconditional manumission, believing that releasing unprepared people with no place to go and no means to support themselves would only bring them misfortune. In 1784, Jefferson proposed federal legislation banning slavery in the New Territories of the North and South after 1800, which failed to pass Congress by one vote.[6][7] In his Notes on the State of Virginia, published in 1785, Jefferson expressed the beliefs that slavery corrupted both masters and slaves alike, supported colonization of freed slaves, promoted the idea that African-Americans were inferior in intelligence, and that emancipating large numbers of slaves made slave uprisings more likely.[8] In 1794 and 1796, Jefferson manumitted by deed two of males he had kept as slaves; they had been trained and were qualified to hold employment.

Jefferson, like many in the southern states that had no significant cotton lands, but a lot of worn out tobacco land and a lot of black slaves, stood to make a lot more money off the slave trade if importation was banned; all the profits of import trade ended up in Boston anyway, and selling slaves to the new cotton kingdoms further south was a good business. The cotton gin made cotton a very valuable export, and slaves far more valuable than 'free' white labor was to northerners.

 

[Foxfyre]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

I think I would have been a hard core abolitionist re slavery, but I nevertheless would have done exactly as the Founding Fathers did.

1. All opposed slavery in principle even though several did own slaves which was culturally acceptable pretty much world wide at that time. They would have freed the slaves via the original constitution, but they would not have been able to get all 13 colonies to sign on and become part of it had they done so. The incomparable unity accomplished by including all 13 colonies was critical to the process.

2. As it was, it took eleven long years of debate, working out issues, deliberation, and compromise to develop a document that would create the greatest and most successful experiment to create a new kind of nation based on individual liberty and the power placed with the people instead of unlimited government power. They compromise left each state to allow or prohibit slavery as the people chose.

3. The Founders wrote a passage in the U.S. Constitution that would allow the government to prohibit the import of slaves from other countries by 1808 and in fact in 1807 President Jefferson signed into law that no slaves could be imported from any other country. And those Founders in Congress joined with all who passed the federal law that no states formed out of the unincorporated territories would be slave states. The trend was definitely to start phasing slavery out of the American dynamics and the congressional efforts coupled with the invention of the cotton gin began the slow process of phasing slavery out of the American culture altogether.

It is the difference between taking an intractable and immovable position on something of prinicple and statesmanship that doesn't require total surrender by the opposition. Instead of making legislation impossible, it encourages cooperation to achieve a greater good that actually solves a problem. It was an example that our current congress should certainly take counsel from.

 

[JoeB131]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

If the formation of the US was based on letting some people continue to own slaves, it defeated the whole premise of a country based on "All Men Are Created Equal".

In Britain, they had already outlawed slavery. Slavery was mostly an American thing at that point. We insisted on keeping it.

 

[Foxfyre]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

If the formation of the US was based on letting some people continue to own slaves, it defeated the whole premise of a country based on "All Men Are Created Equal".

In Britain, they had already outlawed slavery. Slavery was mostly an American thing at that point. We insisted on keeping it.

England ended slavery there in 1833. Our Constitution was signed in 1787.

 

[sartre play]

Founding fathers did the best they could based on who they were & the times they lived in, & it was a pretty darn good job. Cant say the same about most of the movers & shakers today.

 

[Picaro]

Are we allowed to say "Hey, I'm from the future, and this slavery thing is NOT going to end well." ?

Seriously, I dunno. I visited Monticello a few years back, and it was hard to imagine how Jefferson could write, and fight, so eloquently for the cause of freedom, while simultaneously profiting from its antithesis. I guess, for all their lofty ideals and laudable accomplishments, the Founder were hypocrites, just like most all of us.

He was a politician, and an aristocratic one at that; his main political influence was 'Bolingbrokism'. they were no different than politicians now re principles and morals, with few exceptions. This book is n examination of his estate records and other evidence that his screeds against slavery were not his own personal views and practices re slavery. they were written as political expedients, is all.

Thomas Jefferson: Man on a Mountain by Natalie S. Bober

 

[flacaltenn]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

There was no way to get the Southern states to sign on if slavery were outlawed, but I probably would not have bragged about "All men are created equal" back in 1776, knowing that we were holding humans in slavery and keeping it legal.

That's probably a good analysis.. The only thing I'd add is that GOALS don't have to mar your basic principles. If by some miracle, Libertarians started to lead this country, they'd be face with a stinky mountain of stuff that disturbs them, BUT the reality is -- you gotta WORK with your principles to move mountains and hold your nose... So at the Founding, I see nothing wrong with declaring immutable principles..

I think the issue with the South was more the larger disconnect between economies and cultures. And like any assimilation, there should have been immediate efforts to EXPAND the types of jobs and enterprises that the South could rely on. And somewhere in the 1st 2 administrations, infrastructure should have been provided to the South to MINIMIZE the large labor intensive farming..

The Civil War was aggravated by "infrastructure dollars" being spent largely in the NORTH.. And tariffs that HURT agriculture in the South..

Would not expect the "Liberal" founders to direct the economy, but I would expect them to encourage parity for economic opportunity by fairly allocating the loot from the Treasury...

How the nation could accept the Missouri compromise is beyond me.. Because by that point, cotton, sugar and rice and other labor intensive crops should not haven driven major morality flaws... By 1820, policies should have opened the South to OTHER ways of "making a living"....

 

[Picaro]

The Founders' Constitutional battles over slavery were before the cotton gin came along, and also the tobacco land was wearing out and there were a surplus of slaves, who weren't welcome anywhere, certain not in the new territories, so yes, there were a few calls to 'end slavery', since they're too expensive to maintain if they aren't producing a profit. Soon after it was signed, by 1794 ish or so, suddenly there was a market for them in the cotton states, and the former tobacco growers had new market for their slaves, and a new 'product' they could export to southern markets like Georgia and Louisiana. Naturally all that anti-slavery nonsense faded away with the new economic developments. Jefferson highly recommended slaves as a good investment, earning him an easy 10% a year in profits alone, not counting hi other business interests, like a slave manned nail factory, among his farming interests and land rents.

Again, what they would debate in their salons for entertainment should in no way be interpreted as their actual personal beliefs, any more than the names they liked to drop indicates they had any real influence on them in real life. It was just a 'gentlemens' game for evening entertainments.

 

[Jitss617]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

There was no way to get the Southern states to sign on if slavery were outlawed, but I probably would not have bragged about "All men are created equal" back in 1776, knowing that we were holding humans in slavery and keeping it legal.

You democrats have urban slave plantations today.. why not offer them some opportunity

 

[Jitss617]

Who cares! Everyone in the world had slaves back then , we took the right course of action... we should have sent Almost all back to africa. With some reparations .

 

[Picaro]

What would you have done regarding the issue of slavery?

Would you have prevented the formation (Constitution) of the United State of America?

Would you have immediately freed all slaves?

If so, what would you have done with them?

How else would you have handled this British institution?

There was no way to get the Southern states to sign on if slavery were outlawed, but I probably would not have bragged about "All men are created equal" back in 1776, knowing that we were holding humans in slavery and keeping it legal.

That's probably a good analysis.. The only thing I'd add is that GOALS don't have to mar your basic principles. If by some miracle, Libertarians started to lead this country, they'd be face with a stinky mountain of stuff that disturbs them, BUT the reality is -- you gotta WORK with your principles to move mountains and hold your nose... So at the Founding, I see nothing wrong with declaring immutable principles..

I think the issue with the South was more the larger disconnect between economies and cultures. And like any assimilation, there should have been immediate efforts to EXPAND the types of jobs and enterprises that the South could rely on. And somewhere in the 1st 2 administrations, infrastructure should have been provided to the South to MINIMIZE the large labor intensive farming..

The Civil War was aggravated by "infrastructure dollars" being spent largely in the NORTH.. And tariffs that HURT agriculture in the South..

Would not expect the "Liberal" founders to direct the economy, but I would expect them to encourage parity for economic opportunity by fairly allocating the loot from the Treasury...

How the nation could accept the Missouri compromise is beyond me.. Because by that point, cotton, sugar and rice and other labor intensive crops should not haven driven major morality flaws... By 1820, policies should have opened the South to OTHER ways of "making a living"....

I agree with most of that. But, it was basically money following the highest returns, and that was cotton, especially when the Americans stole enough technology from the Brits to start opening their own large factories for cloth making in the early 1800's, driving up demand for cotton. Geographically the 'Cotton kingdom' reached its natural limits by the 1850's with East Texas as the last viable cotton growing areas brought into production. That also caused a price collapse as well, ironically. That limit was why Webster didn't feel slavery issue was of any importance in the battles over the Wilmot Proviso or in Oregon, for that matter. Slavery was legal under the Kansas-Nebraska Act, but a census in 1860 show about a whopping 9 slaves or so there, after several years of legality. Slavery was viable in the South because of the broken terrain, which prevented the kind of mechanization going in the plains states, with mechanical reapers and all that bonanza farming, plus the seasonal weather made it impossible to farm all year round, the same reason slaves weren't economically viable in the Northeastern states.