If you could go back in time and stop one historical event, what would it be?

[Ernie S.]

'

That was remarkably incoherent, even for an Alabaman.

.

Strange, coming from you. Seems no one else had a problem.

 

[BobPlumb]

I went back in time an somehow I became my own grandpa. Didn't mean to.

 

[FA_Q2]

Can you please instances where the federal government is targeting "anybody or anything for favorable treatment"?

Marriage tax breaks, tax breaks for children, tax subsidies to green energy companies, tax subsidies for buying the approved governmental light bulb, tax subsidies for oil, tax deferments for large corporations manufacturing or office space, tax subsidies for the government approved window or water heater, special tax considerations for investments over labor, obamacare applying to different entities with different rules (like unions) governmental kickbacks for states that pass certain laws (anyone know how drinking laws were nationalized). Really, did you have to ask such an obvious question? Virtually everything the government does these days is targeted to one group or another rather than the general welfare.

Tell you what, FA, let's give you everything you want, provided it becomes a felony for any corporation or its agents to have any non-official, non-public contact with any government official; and further, that it be a felony for any public official to receive any money or any employment from a corporation, for a period of ten years after he leaves office.

Deal? · ·

,

No. That sounds nice but the fact is that it will not work. Simple as that. Take all that and politicians will find a way around it. The company will hire a cousin or a spouse for millions a year and have them do nothing. Or they will pay in advance before they are in the seat.

As long as politics gives favors to companies that pay, companies will pay. The ONLY way to stop that is to remove the politician’s power to curry corporate favor, period. As the other posters have pointed out, all this finance reform and attempt to cut the moneyed interests out have achieved exactly zip to date. What makes you think more is going to work now?

 

[FA_Q2]

Maybe I'd stop the creation of islam....

Can you imagine how much more advanced humanity would be?

Not really considering it was the Muslims that saved the culmination of knowledge of all mankind when the Christians were busy burning anything that represented a hit of thought or knowledge at all (and the people that they didn’t like as well).

 

[numan]

Maybe I'd stop the creation of islam....

Can you imagine how much more advanced humanity would be?

For a much better result, I would eliminate bigots.

Yeah, get rid of those god-damn bigots! Crush them, destroy them, annihilate them!! · ·
.

 

[numan]

Tell you what, FA, let's give you everything you want, provided it becomes a felony for any corporation or its agents to have any non-official, non-public contact with any government official; and further, that it be a felony for any public official to receive any money or any employment from a corporation, for a period of ten years after he leaves office.

Deal? · ·

No. That sounds nice but the fact is that it will not work. Simple as that. Take all that and politicians will find a way around it. The company will hire a cousin or a spouse for millions a year and have them do nothing. Or they will pay in advance before they are in the seat.

As long as politics gives favors to companies that pay, companies will pay. The ONLY way to stop that is to remove the politician’s power to curry corporate favor, period. As the other posters have pointed out, all this finance reform and attempt to cut the moneyed interests out have achieved exactly zip to date.

Which is exactly the point I was making!! ALL attempts to deal with corruption will end in failure because it is not just the politicians and financiers who are corrupt, it is the whole system of government that is corrupt and stupid !!

You characters who think that the answer is to go back to the situation before Teddy Roosevelt -- you're just incredibly stupid and blind. The corruption and malfeasance at every level of government and business after the Civil War is legendary all over the world !!

You guys are either totally igonorant of history, or you are being deliberately deceptive.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

There is a difference between malfeasance and corruption in government for its own purposes and the seminal change T. Roosevelt made in government, however. Before it was just the less noble side of humankind doing its thing and, when it became intolerable, the people would eventually have enough and throw the bums out. People who hold the power collectively generally do get around to doing the best thing as they learn what is mutually beneficial for all. What Roosevelt did was to give government the power instead of the people. And that changed everything. And not in a good way at all.

History is a very good thing to know in order to inform ourselves of the probable consequences of what we do. Less so when facts are cherry picked and the larger message is ignored.

 

[FA_Q2]

Tell you what, FA, let's give you everything you want, provided it becomes a felony for any corporation or its agents to have any non-official, non-public contact with any government official; and further, that it be a felony for any public official to receive any money or any employment from a corporation, for a period of ten years after he leaves office.

Deal? · ·

No. That sounds nice but the fact is that it will not work. Simple as that. Take all that and politicians will find a way around it. The company will hire a cousin or a spouse for millions a year and have them do nothing. Or they will pay in advance before they are in the seat.

As long as politics gives favors to companies that pay, companies will pay. The ONLY way to stop that is to remove the politician’s power to curry corporate favor, period. As the other posters have pointed out, all this finance reform and attempt to cut the moneyed interests out have achieved exactly zip to date.

Which is exactly the point I was making!! ALL attempts to deal with corruption will end in failure because it is not just the politicians and financiers who are corrupt, it is the whole system of government that is corrupt and stupid !!

You characters who think that the answer is to go back to the situation before Teddy Roosevelt -- you're just incredibly stupid and blind. The corruption and malfeasance at every level of government and business after the Civil War is legendary all over the world !!

You guys are either totally igonorant of history, or you are being deliberately deceptive.

.

So what system would YOU go to. Don’t forget, I have heard all about the fact that you would replace our constitution and, even though you claim to have a replacement already, it has been completely devoid of details or facts. Now is your chance.

 

[numan]

Before it was just the less noble side of humankind doing its thing and, when it became intolerable, the people would eventually have enough and throw the bums out. People who hold the power collectively generally do get around to doing the best thing as they learn what is mutually beneficial for all.

Please keep your rose-colored glasses away from me !!

I wish to remain sane.

.

 

[numan]

Which is exactly the point I was making!! ALL attempts to deal with corruption will end in failure because it is not just the politicians and financiers who are corrupt, it is the whole system of government that is corrupt and stupid !!

So what system would YOU go to. Don’t forget, I have heard all about the fact that you would replace our constitution and, even though you claim to have a replacement already, it has been completely devoid of details or facts. Now is your chance.

NOW you're going to get it !!

But it will be on another thread.

I've been waiting for someone to ask me that, so that I could justify starting a thread on which I could be sufficiently long-winded and loquacious to deal with such a subject !!
,

 

[AVG-JOE]

If you could go back in time and stop one historical event in the history of the planet, what would it be?

I've always wondered what this planet would be like if Chris Columbus and crew had met a big sister of Katrina and Sandy on their first voyage, resulting in their never returning to Europe.

Western 'Civilization' and, in particular, the ruling classes and their government models circa 1500 acquiring access to such a vast rush of poorly defended resources really skewed Monkey evolution profoundly.

What if the European 'discovery' of the Americas was delayed until after the Catholics and their Inquisition were rendered impotent by popular demand? Nobody knows what the end of the Inquisition years would have looked like if America had remained a secret for a few more decades, but history shows that the populace was just about fed up with that particular influence on the ruling class when Chris came home with his ‘discovery’.

What if the Europeans had learned to share better before they ‘found’ the rest of us?

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

No. That sounds nice but the fact is that it will not work. Simple as that. Take all that and politicians will find a way around it. The company will hire a cousin or a spouse for millions a year and have them do nothing. Or they will pay in advance before they are in the seat.

As long as politics gives favors to companies that pay, companies will pay. The ONLY way to stop that is to remove the politician’s power to curry corporate favor, period. As the other posters have pointed out, all this finance reform and attempt to cut the moneyed interests out have achieved exactly zip to date.

Which is exactly the point I was making!! ALL attempts to deal with corruption will end in failure because it is not just the politicians and financiers who are corrupt, it is the whole system of government that is corrupt and stupid !!

So what system would YOU go to?

The US Constitution amended to specifically deny congress the power it thinks it has to customize the tax code for the individuals and industries who pay them, and amended to require that public budgets be balanced.

The beauty of the US Constitution is that it's a short read. It's not a lot of words. I pray for the day when the same can be said of the tax code.






Fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law, transparency in all things politics and then, build an economy that your spawn can drive to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

​

 

[FA_Q2]

Which is exactly the point I was making!! ALL attempts to deal with corruption will end in failure because it is not just the politicians and financiers who are corrupt, it is the whole system of government that is corrupt and stupid !!

So what system would YOU go to?

The US Constitution amended to specifically deny congress the power it thinks it has to customize the tax code for the individuals and industries who pay them, and amended to require that public budgets be balanced.

The beauty of the US Constitution is that it's a short read. It's not a lot of words. I pray for the day when the same can be said of the tax code.






Fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law, transparency in all things politics and then, build an economy that your spawn can drive to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

​

No, it really isn’t BUT you cannot manipulate that which everyone understands so it needs to SEEM like rocket science for the central authority to have its overbearing power.

If we went to a simple code, congress would lose a LOT of power and the rulers don’t like that one bit.

 

[FA_Q2]

If you could go back in time and stop one historical event in the history of the planet, what would it be?

I've always wondered what this planet would be like if Chris Columbus and crew had met a big sister of Katrina and Sandy on their first voyage, resulting in their never returning to Europe.

Western 'Civilization' and, in particular, the ruling classes and their government models circa 1500 acquiring access to such a vast rush of poorly defended resources really skewed Monkey evolution profoundly.

What if the European 'discovery' of the Americas was delayed until after the Catholics and their Inquisition were rendered impotent by popular demand? Nobody knows what the end of the Inquisition years would have looked like if America had remained a secret for a few more decades, but history shows that the populace was just about fed up with that particular influence on the ruling class when Chris came home with his ‘discovery’.

What if the Europeans had learned to share better before they ‘found’ the rest of us?

​

Then we would not have the grate nation of America.

What created this nations prosperity is a combination of the fact that we have great wealth in the resources here and that when we were discovered, Europe was in such turmoil. Essentially, the world drove some of the best and brightest thinkers out of their home nations and to the promise of a new land. Part of what created the great opportunity here was the sheer fact that the rest of the world was in such turmoil.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So what system would YOU go to?

The US Constitution amended to specifically deny congress the power it thinks it has to customize the tax code for the individuals and industries who pay them, and amended to require that public budgets be balanced.

The beauty of the US Constitution is that it's a short read. It's not a lot of words. I pray for the day when the same can be said of the tax code.






Fair and simple taxes, public budgets that are balanced by law, transparency in all things politics and then, build an economy that your spawn can drive to the stars.

It ain't rocket science, y'all.

​

No, it really isn’t BUT you cannot manipulate that which everyone understands so it needs to SEEM like rocket science for the central authority to have its overbearing power.

If we went to a simple code, congress would lose a LOT of power and the rulers don’t like that one bit.

Duh.

We need to go over the head of congress to change congress. The voters need to demand fair taxes and balanced budgets, and I can only speak for one of them.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If you could go back in time and stop one historical event in the history of the planet, what would it be?

I've always wondered what this planet would be like if Chris Columbus and crew had met a big sister of Katrina and Sandy on their first voyage, resulting in their never returning to Europe.

Western 'Civilization' and, in particular, the ruling classes and their government models circa 1500 acquiring access to such a vast rush of poorly defended resources really skewed Monkey evolution profoundly.

What if the European 'discovery' of the Americas was delayed until after the Catholics and their Inquisition were rendered impotent by popular demand? Nobody knows what the end of the Inquisition years would have looked like if America had remained a secret for a few more decades, but history shows that the populace was just about fed up with that particular influence on the ruling class when Chris came home with his ‘discovery’.

What if the Europeans had learned to share better before they ‘found’ the rest of us?

​

Then we would not have the grate nation of America.

What created this nations prosperity is a combination of the fact that we have great wealth in the resources here and that when we were discovered, Europe was in such turmoil. Essentially, the world drove some of the best and brightest thinkers out of their home nations and to the promise of a new land. Part of what created the great opportunity here was the sheer fact that the rest of the world was in such turmoil.

Perhaps... but I bet the Monkeys living on that fantasy world would have incredible places to vacation!

Would it be better? Nobody can know. It would be different. I'd bet money that our species is closer to reaching for the stars in 2013 than the Monkeys in my fantasy would be in their version of 2013.

That begs the question of whether or not progress = happiness. I say it doesn't, but that doesn't mean shit in this scenario - because of our unique history, Earth Monkeys are midway through circumstances forcing them to keep pushing for stars or die trying.

So far, and in spite of it all, the concept behind 'America' is still this planets best hope to reach for the stars and birth a Sentient World from Monkeys. As soon as enough of us demand fair and simple taxes with balanced public budgets.

 

[numan]

That begs the question of whether or not progress = happiness.

What makes you think that what has happened in America is "progress"?

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

You're right of course... it depends on how one defines progress.

God bless the nit-picking pharisees in the room

As the term is usually used in this context to convey progressive advances in technology as it's made available to the middle classes, that's how I'm using it here.

 

[numan]

As the term is usually used in this context to convey progressive advances in technology as it's made available to the middle classes, that's how I'm using it here.

"Progressive" advances in technology?

The scientific control of human beings through propaganda, brainwashing, conditioning and subliminal messaging which turns former human beings into mindless zombies?

I find it hard to regard this as a positive development in the story of the human race.

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Then don't.

No skin off my nose.