If we Socialize Medicine, can we get rid of Insurance Companies?

[LoneLaugher]

I was thinking about it this morning.

If the government is in the process of socializing medicine and making it available to everybody, wouldn't that eliminate the need for insurance companies?

I mean, why would there even be any? They don't provide any medical service. If anything they would only slow things down. And I'd also assume they'd artificially drive the cost of healthcare up, as they would essentially be making profits without offering any real value. And they do make quite a bit of profit.

Wouldn't this also make the cost of healthcare much cheaper?

I understand this idea is a bit radical, especially for a conservative like myself. But as a fiscal conservative I'm also against waste and inefficiency. Hence, medical insurance companies came to mind.

What are your thoughts?

Parody post?

You have just repeated what liberals have been saying for decades. Congrats.

 

[Vandalshandle]

healthmyths, just attempting to read your rantings wear me out. You remind me of the guys who stand on the corner downtown screaming about this or that, while everyone just walks by, not making eye contact. Following their lead, I shall do the same.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Oh sure, let's get rid of insurance companies because dealing with DMV-style health care government bureaucrats will be so much more enjoyable!

You (finally) heard-about-that, huh???

Government-Managed = LESS EXPENSIVE​

BILL MOYERS: Why is public insurance, a public option, so fiercely opposed by the industry?

WENDELL POTTER: The industry doesn't want to have any competitor. In fact, over the course of the last few years, has been shrinking the number of competitors through a lot of acquisitions and mergers. So first of all, they don't want any more competition period. They certainly don't want it from a government plan that might be operating more efficiently than they are, that they operate. The Medicare program that we have here is a government-run program that has administrative expenses that are like three percent or so.

BILL MOYERS: Compared to the industry's--

WENDELL POTTER: They spend about 20 cents of every premium dollar on overhead, which is administrative expense or profit. So they don't want to compete against a more efficient competitor.

BILL MOYERS: You told Congress that the industry has hijacked our health care system and turned it into a giant ATM for Wall Street. You said, "I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors." How do they satisfy their Wall Street investors?

WENDELL POTTER: Well, there's a measure of profitability that investors look to, and it's called a medical loss ratio. And it's unique to the health insurance industry. And by medical loss ratio, I mean that it's a measure that tells investors or anyone else how much of a premium dollar is used by the insurance company to actually pay medical claims. And that has been shrinking, over the years, since the industry's been dominated by, or become dominated by for-profit insurance companies. Back in the early '90s, or back during the time that the Clinton plan was being debated, 95 cents out of every dollar was sent, you know, on average was used by the insurance companies to pay claims. Last year, it was down to just slightly above 80 percent.

So, investors want that to keep shrinking. And if they see that an insurance company has not done what they think meets their expectations with the medical loss ratio, they'll punish them. Investors will start leaving in droves.

I've seen a company stock price fall 20 percent in a single day, when it did not meet Wall Street's expectations with this medical loss ratio."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwX_soZ1GI]BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Wendell Potter | PBS - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[healthmyths]

The folks in countries with socialized health care live longer, more healthily, for less cost.

Fact.

Like in Cuba.

Laugh.

Health Care in Cuba

The Cuban health care system is respected around the world, and is literally decades more advanced than any system found in Latin America. For this reason, the Cuban system serves as a model for Third World developing nations.

Why is that funny?

Just a fact presented about Cuban economic system that was touted by moore's movie that :
"The cost of cleanliness will rise in Cuba after its cash-strapped, communist government announced
Wednesday that soap, toothpaste and detergent will be slashed from monthly ration books.
My Way News - Cuba slashes state-subsidised soap

So let me get this straight... Cuba has superior health delivery system... but can't provide, soap, toothpaste and detergent supplies to keep people clean???

"Although medical attention remains free, many patients did and still do bring their doctors food, money or other gifts to get to the front of the queue or to guarantee an appointment for an X-ray, blood test or operation.
If you do not have a contact or money to pay under the table, the waiting time for all but emergency procedures can be ridiculously long.
Many Cubans complain that top-level government and Communist Party officials have access to VIP health treatment, while ordinary people must queue from dawn for a routine test, with no guarantee that the allotted numbers will not run out before it is their turn.

And while the preventative healthcare system works well for children, women over the age of 40 are being shortchanged because yearly mammograms are not offered to the population at large.
I saw many hospitals where there was often no running water, the toilets did not flush, and the risk of infections - by the hospital's own admission - was extremely high.

The truths and tales of Cuban healthcare - Features - Al Jazeera English

That's a world class MODEL of Health care???

 

[Vandalshandle]

thanks VH for telling us why they pumps dont work

You are welcome, TM. I also know where the dead bodies are hidden...especially in the health insurance world.

I would challange anyone on this board to name a single country in the entire world who has even remotely considered adopting a system like we have.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The folks in countries with socialized health care live longer, more healthily, for less cost.

Fact.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxNhOBemsic]Q&A: T.R. Reid - YouTube[/ame]
*

*
​

 

[LoneLaugher]

I worked in Japan for a decade.....never gave a nickel to a health insurance company......even though they do exist. Single payer health care removes the profit motive from the equation. Costs come down and care goes up.

Guess who doesn't have to pay for or administer health insurance programs in Japan. Go ahead.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I was thinking about it this morning.

If the government is in the process of socializing medicine and making it available to everybody, wouldn't that eliminate the need for insurance companies?

I mean, why would there even be any? They don't provide any medical service. If anything they would only slow things down. And I'd also assume they'd artificially drive the cost of healthcare up, as they would essentially be making profits without offering any real value. And they do make quite a bit of profit.

Wouldn't this also make the cost of healthcare much cheaper?

I understand this idea is a bit radical, especially for a conservative like myself. But as a fiscal conservative I'm also against waste and inefficiency. Hence, medical insurance companies came to mind.

What are your thoughts?

Why that's what Obama Prefers!!! Obama has said: "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program."Obama's words exactly!!
which means that you and he ...
prefer to destroy the 1,300 health insurance companies.....

Fuck 'Em, if they can't handle the competition!!!​

 

[Vandalshandle]

My Medicare Advantage plan threw in dental care as an incentive to get my business. However, I live 30 miles from the Mexican border, and it is cheaper for me to have dental work down there at full price than it would be just to pay the deductible under my dental plan in the US (which only has two dentists who are under contract within 40 miles of where I live). For the most part, the RX costs to me are finally almost reasonable enough for me to stop buying scripts in Mexico. Perhaps next year...

 

[Mr. Shaman]

there are other typess of insurance to sell.


are these gods of the right not smart enough to adapt to a changing market?

I guess we're gonna find-out, when their health-insurance company inve$tment$ start "headin' South"!!!

​

 

[tooAlive]

What do you guys think about the system Dr. Ben Carson has suggested? Anyone familiar with it?

I believe that could also be an option to consider.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Health Savings Accounts?

It seems that you have rethought your OP......

By the way, Carson does suggest that insurance companies be reigned in to a point of "adequate profit". Which might run him into a little trouble with the "conservatives" who claim to want government out of health care.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Well, although HMO and health insurance companies would not be needed if we had universal health care, the public would insist that they remain, and contract with the government to provide care, just like they do with Medicare Advantage plans, which is a private alternative to Medicare. This is the reason that my stock in health care companies has almost doubled in value since 2008, and why I have no intention of getting rid of it.

Ya' better bail, SOON, before those Federal $UB$IDIE$ are cut-off!!!!!​

Medicare D​

​

* Under the MMA, Medicare has been significantly overpaying private plans under Medicare Advantage. In 2005, Medicare overpaid private plans by at least 7% per beneficiary, costing taxpayers $2.7 billion. In 2006, overpayment reached 11% per beneficiary, costing taxpayers $4.6 billion.

*Under the MMA, Congress set aside $10 billion for an unnecessary subsidy (or "stabilization fund") to regional PPOs. This year, however, 88% of beneficiaries have access to a regional PPO, before the so-called "stabilization fund" was even tapped--no subsidy was necessary.

*Medicare Part D drug prices are substantially higher than the prices obtained by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), which negotiates prices on behalf of consumers. For all of the top 20 drugs prescribed to seniors, the lowest price charged by any Part D plan was higher than the lowest price secured by the VA. Yet Congress refused to let Medicare negotiate directly with the drug companies, as the VA does.

* Bottom line: this report shows that, unfortunately for consumers and taxpayers, the MMA has not even come close to meeting the high expectations set for it by Congress. Consumers are getting hurt and taxpayers fleeced, while insurance companies and drug manufacturers are raking in money faster than they can count it. Congress needs to move away from this deeply flawed privatization model, and instead focus on strengthening Medicare.
​

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I was thinking about it this morning.

If the government is in the process of socializing medicine and making it available to everybody, wouldn't that eliminate the need for insurance companies?

I mean, why would there even be any? They don't provide any medical service. If anything they would only slow things down. And I'd also assume they'd artificially drive the cost of healthcare up, as they would essentially be making profits without offering any real value. And they do make quite a bit of profit.

Wouldn't this also make the cost of healthcare much cheaper?

I understand this idea is a bit radical, especially for a conservative like myself. But as a fiscal conservative I'm also against waste and inefficiency. Hence, medical insurance companies came to mind.

What are your thoughts?

We can get rid of insurance companies to the extent of health maintenance, which would result in considerable savings.

With everyone’s health maintenance needs (check ups, shots, recurring proscriptions and treatments, etc) covered under Medicare for all, those who wish to and can afford it may purchase actual health insurance as a supplement. Health insurance companies may deny policies to whomever they wish, as healthcare will be guaranteed by the Federal program, also resulting in savings.

In essence we could get rid of the ‘safety net’ and instead create a solid foundation of basic healthcare, ensuring the health and well-being of all Americans.

 

[tooAlive]

Health Savings Accounts?

It seems that you have rethought your OP......

By the way, Carson does suggest that insurance companies be reigned in to a point of "adequate profit". Which might run him into a little trouble with the "conservatives" who claim to want government out of health care.

Yes, health savings accounts.

And right again, Carson did say that. Which is what got me into thinking about the OP in the first place.

I may be a "conservative," but I also know that the insurance biz is a multi-billion dollar industry. And one can only wonder how honestly those dollars are earned, and at whose cost. Liberal or conservative, I believe this is one issue we can all agree needs to be addressed.

 

[Truthmatters]

how is the average American going to save enough to buy a 100,000 dollar operation?


then all of the sudden your wife needs one too

 

[konradv]

My problem with insurance companies is that they can claim almost anything is a "pre-existing condition". After all, we're all afflicted with a pre-existing condition, mortality.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I was thinking about it this morning.

If the government is in the process of socializing medicine and making it available to everybody, wouldn't that eliminate the need for insurance companies?

I mean, why would there even be any? They don't provide any medical service. If anything they would only slow things down. And I'd also assume they'd artificially drive the cost of healthcare up, as they would essentially be making profits without offering any real value. And they do make quite a bit of profit.

Wouldn't this also make the cost of healthcare much cheaper?

I understand this idea is a bit radical, especially for a conservative like myself. But as a fiscal conservative I'm also against waste and inefficiency. Hence, medical insurance companies came to mind.

What are your thoughts?

Insurace companies have already driven the cost of health care up. I recall the time when if you had an upper GI you had to go to the hospital to get it. Then reality hit.

ARE YOU a F...king IDIOT????
Does the insurance company actually do the GI???
Or you f...king idiot does the HOSPITAL do it and THEN send the claim of service to the insurance company?

God... you people are so f...king stupid!

Things
CHANGE!!!

.

.

.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBYND6aVEmQ]Spooky Tooth:-'Things Change' - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Well, although HMO and health insurance companies would not be needed if we had universal health care, the public would insist that they remain, and contract with the government to provide care, just like they do with Medicare Advantage plans, which is a private alternative to Medicare. This is the reason that my stock in health care companies has almost doubled in value since 2008, and why I have no intention of getting rid of it.

Medicare ADVANTAGE IS NOT a private Alternative to Medicare! STUPID!

Medicare ADVANTAGE (of which there are over 400 around the USA ) bids for Medicare to contract them to provide health services for a FIXED monthly payment by Medicare to the ADVANTAGE PLAN!
And I LOVE my advantage plan and HAPPY as hell they make a profit!

Yeah.....ya' gotta LOVE those FEDERAL-$UB$IDIE$....

.....TAKER!!!!!!!

 

[Crackerjaxon]

In socialized medicine, the government becomes the insurance company. That means, ulitimately, bureaucrats will decide what health care you receive. Already, we see the self-righteous cryng for the life's blood of the obese and smokers. It will get worse.

When insurance companies cannot base their rates on evaluated risk, and that's what Obama's policies dictate, they will surely go out of business. So it's simply a matter of time before the government takes over completely.

The only cure for this is a market economy where supply and demand are in equilibrium. Once corporations took over the medical profession, they began to use the government to manipulate the market via regulation. That's why we're in the shape we are in today --- heavy demand and a short supply.

In other words, we're screwed.