If there is a God...

[JohnPrewett]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

 

[ding]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

Take it easy John, I only asked who you are talking about, OK.

But let's think through this logically, OK.

Do you believe in the New Testament or do you believe it is false or fake?

 

[Votto]

I just read an article from NASA which is partially the inspiration behind this topic:
WMAP- Fate of the Universe
It would seem to suggest that given enough time, all life in the known universe will most likely essentially “freeze” to death.
Now as a preface to this topic I suppose I should set some “assumptions” that I’m making. Let’s say that billions or more years ago, some supremely powerful conscious being created all the particles that exist along with all the rules that govern them; and that being is God.

Given all the messed up stuff that can happen to people, and has happened to people throughout history, and that existence will probably fade into frozen nothingness eventually; I’m having a hard time believing that “God” actually “cares” about us that much. Now I know that most people are good, but I think that’s mostly because it’s evolutionarily advantageous to be “good”. I think I have an innate empathy and conscientiousness for others because that is a trait that fosters cooperation; and human cooperation is a competitive advantage. Simply survival of the fittest.

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

The Bible says we are made in God's image and as human beings love is the most important aspect of our existence. It then stands to reason that it also matters to God.

Put another way, have you ever created something? If so, it is a reflection of yourself. It reflects your intelligence, or lack thereof, your needs or your desires, etc.. We are a reflection of God in that way. He then sent his Son to die for us and make us right again with God.

 

[Votto]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

And who nailed Jesus to a cross? Was it not the religious leaders of his day?

Jesus warned us not to mingle the state and the Christian faith, a warning that went unheeded with the Catholic church.

In fact, Constantine, who started it all, was not even a Christian. He still worshipped the pagan gods, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

 

[ding]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

And who nailed Jesus to a cross? Was it not the religious leaders of his day?

Jesus warned us not to mingle the state and the Christian faith, a warning that went unheeded with the Catholic church.

In fact, Constantine, who started it all, was not even a Christian. He still worshipped the pagan gods, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

I think the role the Church played in tempering the monarchies is greatly misunderstood and underestimated.

The reality is that any collection of men necessitates a hierarchy. It is the natural order. The other end of the extreme is anarchy. So the structure the Church took was modeled after monarchies because that was the hierarchical model of that time.

Any organization comprised of imperfect men will have a distribution of such within the organization. So objectivity is required to assess it's worth. And by any objective manner the Church has been a force for good. If it had not been, it would not have endured for almost two thousand years. Why? Because error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually. It is the nature of error.

 

[ding]

But the point I am trying to make is that you can't logically believe in the New Testament and Jesus and believe that the Church is evil. It is illogical and incongruent.

Why? Because it was through the Church that that knowledge was transferred to us. It would be illogical for the Church to be evil and spread goodness at the same time.

 

[JohnPrewett]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

And who nailed Jesus to a cross? Was it not the religious leaders of his day?

The "religious leaders of the day" demanded the crucifixion of Jesus. The Roman temporal authority actually executed the crucifixion.
In like manner the Great Whore demanded the temporal authorities to do the dirty bloody work.

Jesus warned us not to mingle the state and the Christian faith, a warning that went unheeded with the Catholic church.
In fact, Constantine, who started it all, was not even a Christian. He still worshiped the pagan gods, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

 

[skye]

There is a GOD~

He gave us Donald Trump! he gave the whole world Donald Trump....a man who is draining the swamp....

.May HE BLESSES HIM AND PROTECTS HIM FOR AN ETERNITY

 

[ding]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

And who nailed Jesus to a cross? Was it not the religious leaders of his day?

The "religious leaders of the day" demanded the crucifixion of Jesus. The Roman temporal authority actually executed the crucifixion.
In like manner the Great Whore demanded the temporal authorities to do the dirty bloody work.

Jesus warned us not to mingle the state and the Christian faith, a warning that went unheeded with the Catholic church.
In fact, Constantine, who started it all, was not even a Christian. He still worshiped the pagan gods, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

Is Jesus your Savior?

 

[skye]

Savior gave us a way out of corruption in the form of blessed Donald Trump









GOD BLESS OUR PRESIDENT

 

[JohnPrewett]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

And who nailed Jesus to a cross? Was it not the religious leaders of his day?

Jesus warned us not to mingle the state and the Christian faith, a warning that went unheeded with the Catholic church.

In fact, Constantine, who started it all, was not even a Christian. He still worshipped the pagan gods, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

I think the role the Church played in tempering the monarchies is greatly misunderstood and underestimated.

The reality is that any collection of men necessitates a hierarchy. It is the natural order. The other end of the extreme is anarchy.
So the structure the Church took was modeled after monarchies because that was the hierarchical model of that time.

Any organization comprised of imperfect men will have a distribution of such within the organization. So objectivity is required to assess it's worth. And by any objective manner the Church has been a force for good. If it had not been, it would not have endured for almost two thousand years. Why? Because error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually. It is the nature of error.

Jesus called them to Him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them.
26 It shall not be so among you. Whoever would be great among you, let him serve you, 27 and whoever would be first among you, let him be your slave,

Matt 20

 

[ding]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

And who nailed Jesus to a cross? Was it not the religious leaders of his day?

Jesus warned us not to mingle the state and the Christian faith, a warning that went unheeded with the Catholic church.

In fact, Constantine, who started it all, was not even a Christian. He still worshipped the pagan gods, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

I think the role the Church played in tempering the monarchies is greatly misunderstood and underestimated.

The reality is that any collection of men necessitates a hierarchy. It is the natural order. The other end of the extreme is anarchy.
So the structure the Church took was modeled after monarchies because that was the hierarchical model of that time.

Any organization comprised of imperfect men will have a distribution of such within the organization. So objectivity is required to assess it's worth. And by any objective manner the Church has been a force for good. If it had not been, it would not have endured for almost two thousand years. Why? Because error cannot stand. Error will always fail eventually. It is the nature of error.

Jesus called them to Him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them.
26 It shall not be so among you. Whoever would be great among you, let him serve you, 27 and whoever would be first among you, let him be your slave,

Matt 20

John, you are quoting the work that was put together by the whore of babylon and you think that is logical?

If it were not for the whore of babylon, you wouldn't be able to post that verse, right?

I know this is going to be a shock to your system, but you are literally writing something that the whore of babylon gave you.

 

[JohnPrewett]

I credit Jesus for seeing to the creation/content of the Bible. I don't care nor debate what men Jesus used to get the job done.

 

[Votto]

But the point I am trying to make is that you can't logically believe in the New Testament and Jesus and believe that the Church is evil. It is illogical and incongruent.

Why? Because it was through the Church that that knowledge was transferred to us. It would be illogical for the Church to be evil and spread goodness at the same time.

Who said that the church was evil?

The Christian should fight for the church the way Jesus fought for the sanctity of the temple by driving out the money changers.

Having said that, I still stand by my claim that when you combine the power of the state and the pulpit trouble is just around the corner.

Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world. He did not hold political office nor did he command a military. In fact, when they tried to make himself a king he refused them.

 

[toobfreak]

I just read an article from NASA which is partially the inspiration behind this topic:
WMAP- Fate of the Universe
It would seem to suggest that given enough time, all life in the known universe will most likely essentially “freeze” to death.
Now as a preface to this topic I suppose I should set some “assumptions” that I’m making. Let’s say that billions or more years ago, some supremely powerful conscious being created all the particles that exist along with all the rules that govern them; and that being is God.

Given all the messed up stuff that can happen to people, and has happened to people throughout history, and that existence will probably fade into frozen nothingness eventually; I’m having a hard time believing that “God” actually “cares” about us that much. Now I know that most people are good, but I think that’s mostly because it’s evolutionarily advantageous to be “good”. I think I have an innate empathy and conscientiousness for others because that is a trait that fosters cooperation; and human cooperation is a competitive advantage. Simply survival of the fittest.

So I guess I’m going to pose this question to you all: If there is a God (as outlined above) is there any evidence it really cares about you or my well being at a personal level?

Look, Fool, what you are talking about is called Entropy. It is the inevitable result of the decay in matter happening over TRILLIONS of years. You planning to be around trillions of years from now? Long, LONG before that, other things will make it impossible for life anyway. Besides, I guess you just don't get it that "the universe" is just a place for beings to go who either haven't found God or chose to be separate from him. It's not supposed to be all unicorns and rainbows, otherwise, what would be the point of needing or wanting a return to the Supreme Consciousness? Ponder that, but try not to hurt yourself.

 

[Votto]

The Great Whore "shed the blood of martyrs" Jesus never told His "sheep" to torture-kill anyone for any reason.

Who is this great whore that you speak of, John?

Who for centuries openly tortured and murdered people they deemed "heretic" ?
Who for centuries has famously "fornicated with (made deals with) the kings" ?
Who is famously connected to a city famously nicknamed "city of 7 hills" ?
Who is very rich and has world wide influence ?
Who has leadership that famously dresses in purple and scarlet costumes ?
Who did the Reformation era "heretics-Protestants" (Christians) claim was the Great Whore ?

And who nailed Jesus to a cross? Was it not the religious leaders of his day?

The "religious leaders of the day" demanded the crucifixion of Jesus. The Roman temporal authority actually executed the crucifixion.
In like manner the Great Whore demanded the temporal authorities to do the dirty bloody work.

Jesus warned us not to mingle the state and the Christian faith, a warning that went unheeded with the Catholic church.
In fact, Constantine, who started it all, was not even a Christian. He still worshiped the pagan gods, although it is rumored he converted on his death bed.

Not all the religious leaders agreed. Some wanted to spare Jesus and some, like Nicodemus, were secret followers of Christ.

 

[skye]

y'all are too funny


like our FATHER will care of your every move....

 

[ding]

But the point I am trying to make is that you can't logically believe in the New Testament and Jesus and believe that the Church is evil. It is illogical and incongruent.

Why? Because it was through the Church that that knowledge was transferred to us. It would be illogical for the Church to be evil and spread goodness at the same time.

Who said that the church was evil?

The Christian should fight for the church the way Jesus fought for the sanctity of the temple by driving out the money changers.

Having said that, I still stand by my claim that when you combine the power of the state and the pulpit trouble is just around the corner.

Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world. He did not hold political office nor did he command a military. In fact, when they tried to make himself a king he refused them.

I don't want collusion between state and religion. That would be almost as bad as no religion at all.

But I also don't want our government to be so legal positivistic that they forget there is a natural law.

 

[ding]

I credit Jesus for seeing to the creation/content of the Bible. I don't care nor debate what men Jesus used to get the job done.

How would you even know about Jesus if it were not for the whore of Babylon, John?

 

[Votto]

But the point I am trying to make is that you can't logically believe in the New Testament and Jesus and believe that the Church is evil. It is illogical and incongruent.

Why? Because it was through the Church that that knowledge was transferred to us. It would be illogical for the Church to be evil and spread goodness at the same time.

Who said that the church was evil?

The Christian should fight for the church the way Jesus fought for the sanctity of the temple by driving out the money changers.

Having said that, I still stand by my claim that when you combine the power of the state and the pulpit trouble is just around the corner.

Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world. He did not hold political office nor did he command a military. In fact, when they tried to make himself a king he refused them.

I don't want collusion between state and religion. That would be almost as bad as no religion at all.

But I also don't want our government to be so legal positivistic that they forget there is a natural law.

The state is all about the personal power of men.

As such, they will violate natural law.

As James Madison famously said, "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself."