If the US healthcare system is the best and socialism is the worst

[OohPooPahDoo]

To reliably self insure yourself against worst case health scenarios requires at least $1,000,000 ready to go. Anyone who's got that amount of money and is willing to lose it to the whims of fate, fine, makes sense if they self insure. Anyone with less than that who is self insured stands to lose everything in a health catastrophe.

Wrong...!

If we as Americans payed for the small expenditures of our healthcare and not run to our insurance card every time we need a scipt filled or go to the dr's office for a cold or God forbid we break a bone!
If we just took care of the small things ourselves, and had insurance for the catastrophic things like cancer and serious injuries etc etc... we could all afford insurance.

Thanks. My wife and I will just drop the coverage we have through work and pay more for a private plan that gives us less. That would make lots of financial sense.

Oh, and stop with all the medical malpractice lawsuits...

I've never had one.

have you seen the commercials on late night TV??? Jeez....

No, I have a life.

One more thing... let insurance companies sell across state lines.... there is a fix for ya.
More competition = lower prices.

Insurance companies are already allowed to sell their products in multiple states. United Health Care for instance. So I don't see what you're trying to say, unless its that you don't believe states should have the right to regulate commerce within their own borders.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You're the one who intimated that lack of socialized medical services = shitty health care.

Nope.

BTW, in England, which has socialized medicine, you are allowed to buy your health care from the private market instead if you so choose.

So you have no point.

If its so good there, why do Brits come here for care?

Typically when people from other 1st world nations receive medical care in the U.S. its because they were here on business or vacation and had an unexpected medical issue.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Cut and paste your proof......or run away, Robin.

So far I'm waiting some proof from taichiliberal as well. Otherwise, I'll have to go with you.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8]Brave Sir Robin - YouTube[/ame]

What's the matter sweetheart? Too dumb or too lazy or too cowardly to just click back on the arrows and READ the preceding posts? You could do a search using my screen name to see all the posts.

Then if you STILL don't understand what I wrote OR THE INFORMATION IN THE LINKS I PROVIDED, I'll try and explain it again. That is, if you've actually got the stones to discuss the content rather than your opinion.

Other than that, you may continue to blow smoke up Toddler's ass.

Run away!

 

[Douger]

Matrix of Rackets - Clusterfuck Nation

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

you don't believe states should have the right to regulate commerce within their own borders.

1) commerce clause in Constitution was created to promote free trade between states

2) states got an exception in health care through McCarren Ferguson, proceeded to regulate and drive up costs 3 times what they would be in truly national market.

3) of course its all over a liberals head but try to imagine what would happen to the price of tooth paste is each state had its own standards. Now you understand why the USA is competitive except in health insurance costs.


So, states should regulate heath insurance if they are stupid and want to drive up costs to 3 times normal free market price.

 

[dblack]

you don't believe states should have the right to regulate commerce within their own borders.

1) commerce clause in Constitution was created to promote free trade between states

No way man. It was created to allow the feds to force people to buy shit they don't want. 'Cause, you know - the insurance companies need our money.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. It was created to allow the feds to force people to buy shit they don't want. .

any reason to think that???

 

[dblack]

. It was created to allow the feds to force people to buy shit they don't want. .

any reason to think that???

Because Obama said so?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. It was created to allow the feds to force people to buy shit they don't want. .

any reason to think that???

Because Obama said so?

BO created the Commerce Clause??

 

[grammahiker]

I know lots of people who go out of the country to get BETTER and cheaper and more advanced health care procedures done. Facilities are friendlier, more efficient, cleaner and patients repeat visits. Who wants to bother with all the forms and red tape and 5 times the cost than here. There is an eye surgery they have been doing successfully in Canada for years that they don't do yet here. The U.S. is held back because of the people who own the Health Care Insurance Companies. None of them want that gravy train to stop and they contribute more campaign money than any other industry. Their lobbyists pay politicians millions of dollars cash under the table to keep telling the lies. It is all about the money and nothing else. Our health care is so screwed up. For what we pay all the money that goes into it, consider how many billions every year go into their record profits every year, they even admit it, health care lawyers, health care consultants, health care payment claims processing warehouses, If we could pay a much lesser amount into one giant fund and have it all flow into paying none of that crap but to the one processor then onto hospitals, caregivers, medications, preventive and rehabilitation and medication just think how much healthier we'd all be!. Healthier people are more productive. More productive people drive up the GDP and the GNP and that will bring more money into the country so we can rebuild our infrastructure and all grow richer and our Nation will be stronger or we can just keep the profits skyrocketing for the few who own the healthcare insurance companies and most of us will keep going with out necessary procedures and keep getting sicker and end as burdens on their families and society.

 

[Vidi]

You're the one who intimated that lack of socialized medical services = shitty health care.

Nope.

BTW, in England, which has socialized medicine, you are allowed to buy your health care from the private market instead if you so choose.

So you have no point.

If its so good there, why do Brits come here for care?

Primarily, they don't. They idea that people come in droves to the US for care is largely an overblown myth.

However, when it comes to Cancer treatment, the US is the best in achieving a successful outcome ie survivability.

In other conditions, the best doctors come here to the US because they can make money here. But, they are very, very, very expensive and the vast majority of Americans could never get seen by them, let alone treated. They are doctors for the elite only and they will exist no matter what system we are under.

In the few cases in which poor people come to the US for treatment, it's either: Their case is high profile or an anomaly, which will yield a paper or it's done pro bono for PR.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

2) states got an exception in health care through McCarren Ferguson, proceeded to regulate and drive up costs 3 times what they would be in truly national market.

Three times? You know this how? Because it sounds like a good number to you?

3) of course its all over a liberals head but try to imagine what would happen to the price of tooth paste is each state had its own standards. Now you understand why the USA is competitive except in health insurance costs.

States are quite free to have their own standards for toothpaste, food, drugs - whatever you like - its called federalism.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

. It was created to allow the feds to force people to buy shit they don't want. .

any reason to think that???

Because Obama said so?

No he didn't.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I know lots of people who go out of the country to get BETTER and cheaper and more advanced health care procedures done.

I get all my dental work done in Mexico.

Its definitely not better than here. But it costs 1/10th the amount and its certainly not 10 times worse.

Facilities are friendlier, more efficient, cleaner and patients repeat visits. Who wants to bother with all the forms and red tape and 5 times the cost than here.

In the U.S. when the doc thinks you might have sleep apnea, they send you to a "sleep clinic", which is basically a place you go to sleep for a night while your insurance company pours thousands upon thousands of dollars into the doc's checking account and the accounts of whatever CPAP manufacturer the doc is in bed with.

In Canada I hear they send you home with a pulse oximeter. The disease can be diagnosed based on oxygen levels in the blood while sleeping. Turns out that isn't that expensive to figure out - but the "sleep clinic" makes people a lot more money (except you and your insurance company)

 

[dblack]

It was created to allow the feds to force people to buy shit they don't want. .

any reason to think that???

Because Obama said so?

No he didn't.

When he signed PPACA, and instructed his lawyers to defend it on the basis of the commerce clause, he did.

 

[Foxfyre]

I know lots of people who go out of the country to get BETTER and cheaper and more advanced health care procedures done. Facilities are friendlier, more efficient, cleaner and patients repeat visits. Who wants to bother with all the forms and red tape and 5 times the cost than here. There is an eye surgery they have been doing successfully in Canada for years that they don't do yet here. The U.S. is held back because of the people who own the Health Care Insurance Companies. None of them want that gravy train to stop and they contribute more campaign money than any other industry. Their lobbyists pay politicians millions of dollars cash under the table to keep telling the lies. It is all about the money and nothing else. Our health care is so screwed up. For what we pay all the money that goes into it, consider how many billions every year go into their record profits every year, they even admit it, health care lawyers, health care consultants, health care payment claims processing warehouses, If we could pay a much lesser amount into one giant fund and have it all flow into paying none of that crap but to the one processor then onto hospitals, caregivers, medications, preventive and rehabilitation and medication just think how much healthier we'd all be!. Healthier people are more productive. More productive people drive up the GDP and the GNP and that will bring more money into the country so we can rebuild our infrastructure and all grow richer and our Nation will be stronger or we can just keep the profits skyrocketing for the few who own the healthcare insurance companies and most of us will keep going with out necessary procedures and keep getting sicker and end as burdens on their families and society.

The problem with your concept is that it doesn't work anywhere it is tried. In order to have one big pool of money to fund it all, you have to have massive rules and regulations for the administration of that money which adds layers and layers of bureaucracy to a system that is already so bloated and top heavy and convoluted that noboby few even know what their job is actually accompllishing; much less do they have any good feel for how healthcare is actually administered to those receiving it.

And that huge, bloated, and ever growing bureaucracy swallows up more and more--huge chunks--of the money that never gets to anybody that actually needs it.

One example of why the federal government should not be in charge of administration of healthcare. My aunt has severe osteoporosis that required regular injections to control. When blood tests showed that the injections she was getting were also affecting her liver, they had to stop them and find another treatment.

The most effective treatment, which incidentally is the cheapest, Medicare has not approved unless the person has had their gall bladder removed. I asked the doctor what the gall bladder has to do with osteoporosis and he said nothing. It was just one of hundreds of ridiculous rules the federal government includes in Medicare regulations.

If we put our healthcare system back into a free market system, those lobbyists would have nobody to lobby to write ridiculous rules and regulations controlling our healthcare.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If we put our healthcare system back into a free market system, those lobbyists would have nobody to lobby to write ridiculous rules and regulations controlling our healthcare.

yes all 12,000 liberal lobbyists would have no liberal politicians to buy off if we had the IQ to understand Republican capitalism

 

[usmcstinger]

The average American worker pays $3,515 annually for family coverage, according to a 2009 survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust




Public expenditure on health
As a percentage of total expenditure on health
France: 77.9
Germany: 76.9
UK: 84.1
USA 47.7
Health: Key Tables from OECD - OECD iLibraryPublic expenditure on health

 

[dblack]

The average American worker pays $3,515 annually for family coverage, according to a 2009 survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust

Yeah.. that's dumb. They should stop doing that.

 

[taichiliberal]

The average American worker pays $3,515 annually for family coverage, according to a 2009 survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust




Public expenditure on health
As a percentage of total expenditure on health
France: 77.9
Germany: 76.9
UK: 84.1
USA 47.7
Health: Key Tables from OECD - OECD iLibraryPublic expenditure on health

And upon closer examination:

Countries with governments and economies similar to the United States have come up with a variety of methods to make sure that all of their citizens receive health care. While residents in Europe and Japan may pay higher insurance premiums or taxes than Americans, in the end, when all costs are added up, Americans spend more money on health care per person with fewer people covered. (Data most recent available as of July 2008)
Compare International Medical Bills : NPR



How does US healthcare compare to the rest of the world? | News | guardian.co.uk

Health Care Expenditures: An International Comparison | Online NewsHour | August 21, 2009 | PBS