If someone doens't want a union job they should....

[gallantwarrior]

I will never ever knowingly buy anything that is union made. I have had this policy since about 1990s or so. Any time I see a union label, I opt out.

so buy Chinese.....im sure that's quality....

I'm with PredFan. I see a union label and get something else. I'll buy Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, Guatemalan, ANYTHING but made by a union shop. There has to be literally no alternative for me to spend my money to support unions. Now that the union forced Chrysler to hire back 13 drug addict drunks to build Jeeps, I feel even MORE strongly about my no union policy.

Surely does build consumer confidence in the product, doesn't it?

 

[Uncensored2008]

thats not the way it works in the PO.....you have a route to do.....if you do your 8 hour route in say 6 hours because you move out and get it done......your not even thanked by management......they will want to add to your route......or send you out to help those that are not as quick......and the Union has nothing to with that.....that is the Postal Managements way of thinking.....Union or not.....you dont get rewarded for being a superior worker in the PO....but if you fuck up......you hear about it....

The Post Office is government, a monopoly, and union, it is designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. The Postal Service has no need to serve the customer because they have no competition, being a government mandated monopoly. There is no effort to be efficient or cost effective since there is no desire to make a profit. An employee performing well has no impact on the manager, since there are no production goals or sales targets.

FedEX certainly rewards effort.

 

[gallantwarrior]

thats not the way it works in the PO.....you have a route to do.....if you do your 8 hour route in say 6 hours because you move out and get it done......your not even thanked by management......they will want to add to your route......or send you out to help those that are not as quick......and the Union has nothing to with that.....that is the Postal Managements way of thinking.....Union or not.....you dont get rewarded for being a superior worker in the PO....but if you fuck up......you hear about it....

The Post Office is government, a monopoly, and union, it is designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. The Postal Service has no need to serve the customer because they have no competition, being a government mandated monopoly. There is no effort to be efficient or cost effective since there is no desire to make a profit. An employee performing well has no impact on the manager, since there are no production goals or sales targets.

FedEX certainly rewards effort.

Actually, the USPS does have competition now and see what's happening. They are constantly running in the red and are cutting back service in order to try and save themselves.

 

[Katzndogz]

If someone doesn't want to work for a union shop, they can move to a right to work state. If an employer doesn't want to be a union shop, they too can move to a right to work state.

That's exactly what's happening.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Or they just realize the game is better played on an even playing field.

Business owners only exist because the rest of us tolerate them. How many businesses have sunk because bad publicity did them in?

Good business owners would have no issue with a union, because they'd already be doing the right thing.

Douchebags? Fuck them.

Without SEIU, you could never hold a job, Comrade Stalin. Not even the government job you have.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

OK....fine.

Then why the uproar over Walmart? Who made those people work there?
Why the uproar over how business owners treat their employees? Who makes those people work for tyrant bosses?

Why do you so quickly apply your premise to this topic, but so quick to argue that Walmart employees are not fairly treated? .

And the irony?

This legislation simply allows an employee to decide if he wants to pay union dues or not....it has nothing to do with taking a job...heck...one on the job now has the chopice to decide that MAYBE his dues are a waste of his money....or another to decide....hecki, I like the union, so I will continue as a member.

Man...you are way off base with your thinking.

this interjects the governments into the relationship between the employer and employee. if an employer has already come to an agreement with a union to make his shop or business union run then why does the government feel the need to change that relationship? if the owner of the business chooses to, he can refuse to renew the union contract once it expires. now this could be a terrible business decision, but it is his decision nonetheless. but at the same time, if that business owner chooses to continue with that union contract that is his choice as well. why does the right feel the need to legislate this issue?

no one has ever been forced to join a union, or in your example work at walmart. the issue i see with walmart is that they have openly fought against labor trying to unionize, when the ability to unionize is a protected right. the smarter thing walmart workers could have done was simply mass strike for better wages and benefits. this would not have taken a union. but then again those workers also could have sought employment elsewhere. its a double edged sword for low skilled workers. but again, why does the right feel the need to legislate this issue?

I do not see how government is interjecting itself in the relationship between an employer and an employee.

All they are doing is saying that a UNION can not force an employee to pay them duies if they opt to NOT want to be part of a union.

They are serving the people they were elcted to serve and ensuring that those people will ALWAYS have the right to choose..

Sorry if it affects unions....but the people come first.

And an FYI....if it has an adverse affect on unions, then unions are doing something wrong.

again, if the employer has already come to an agreement with a union by choice, why does the government feel the need to interject itself into that relationship? no employer has ever been forced to accept a union contract while at the same time no employee has ever been forced to join a union. is this so difficult to understand?

 

[Bern80]

this interjects the governments into the relationship between the employer and employee. if an employer has already come to an agreement with a union to make his shop or business union run then why does the government feel the need to change that relationship? if the owner of the business chooses to, he can refuse to renew the union contract once it expires. now this could be a terrible business decision, but it is his decision nonetheless. but at the same time, if that business owner chooses to continue with that union contract that is his choice as well. why does the right feel the need to legislate this issue?

no one has ever been forced to join a union, or in your example work at walmart. the issue i see with walmart is that they have openly fought against labor trying to unionize, when the ability to unionize is a protected right. the smarter thing walmart workers could have done was simply mass strike for better wages and benefits. this would not have taken a union. but then again those workers also could have sought employment elsewhere. its a double edged sword for low skilled workers. but again, why does the right feel the need to legislate this issue?

I do not see how government is interjecting itself in the relationship between an employer and an employee.

All they are doing is saying that a UNION can not force an employee to pay them duies if they opt to NOT want to be part of a union.

They are serving the people they were elcted to serve and ensuring that those people will ALWAYS have the right to choose..

Sorry if it affects unions....but the people come first.

And an FYI....if it has an adverse affect on unions, then unions are doing something wrong.

again, if the employer has already come to an agreement with a union by choice, why does the government feel the need to interject itself into that relationship? no employer has ever been forced to accept a union contract while at the same time no employee has ever been forced to join a union. is this so difficult to understand?

On that most should agree. An employer who stupidly signs an agreement that they won't hire anyone non-union should be stuck with it until the time comes to renegotiate the contract.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually, the USPS does have competition now and see what's happening. They are constantly running in the red and are cutting back service in order to try and save themselves.

Delivery of mail is prohibited for anyone but the USPS. Parcel service has had competition for decades. Initially, UPS was the competition, run by the same union as the USPS. But FedEX is non-union and has forced UPS to become much more efficient and cost effective. This has virtually ended the USPS as a parcel service. Couple this with email and electronic funds transfers, and the only real purpose of the USPS is to deliver junk mail.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Actually, the USPS does have competition now and see what's happening. They are constantly running in the red and are cutting back service in order to try and save themselves.

Delivery of mail is prohibited for anyone but the USPS. Parcel service has had competition for decades. Initially, UPS was the competition, run by the same union as the USPS. But FedEX is non-union and has forced UPS to become much more efficient and cost effective. This has virtually ended the USPS as a parcel service. Couple this with email and electronic funds transfers, and the only real purpose of the USPS is to deliver junk mail.

All true. And as you mentioned, having competition forced UPS to improve their service.

I used to work for a company that basically "owned" the field at the airport. They were the major service providers and managed to stifle any competitors. Management and the workforce were smug, arrogant, and provided shoddy service to their customers because they were "the only show in town. They are a union shop.
Then along came the bunch I work for now. Two prior FeEx employees started the company and worked really hard to make it competitive. They succeeded beyond all imagination. We have pretty much displaced the other company, having garnered most of their contracts as well as many new ones. Highly qualified and well-trained staff was hired as it became available. I doubt this will ever become a union shop. Too many of the current employees, including many Northwest Airlines mechanics, got burned by unions.
Oh, the 'competition'? The only skilled labor they have to offer are the oldest union employees...also the most complacent and laziest. Go figure.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I will never ever knowingly buy anything that is union made. I have had this policy since about 1990s or so. Any time I see a union label, I opt out.

so buy Chinese.....im sure that's quality....

I'm with PredFan. I see a union label and get something else. I'll buy Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, Guatemalan, ANYTHING but made by a union shop. There has to be literally no alternative for me to spend my money to support unions. Now that the union forced Chrysler to hire back 13 drug addict drunks to build Jeeps, I feel even MORE strongly about my no union policy.

the thing i look at.....is it made in America.....and i dont give a fuck if its Union or not.....i will support the Country over some stupid bullshit about Unions....

 

[Truthseeker420]

If someone doesn't want a union job they should.... not be forced to pay tribute to a union as a condition of employment.

Why not? They are forced to buy boots ,uniforms and all other kinds of "tributes" as a condition of employment.

The truth is Republicans only want government to interfere in a business rights when it helps them.

 

[Harry Dresden]

thats not the way it works in the PO.....you have a route to do.....if you do your 8 hour route in say 6 hours because you move out and get it done......your not even thanked by management......they will want to add to your route......or send you out to help those that are not as quick......and the Union has nothing to with that.....that is the Postal Managements way of thinking.....Union or not.....you dont get rewarded for being a superior worker in the PO....but if you fuck up......you hear about it....

The Post Office is government, a monopoly, and union, it is designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. The Postal Service has no need to serve the customer because they have no competition, being a government mandated monopoly. There is no effort to be efficient or cost effective since there is no desire to make a profit. An employee performing well has no impact on the manager, since there are no production goals or sales targets.

FedEX certainly rewards effort.

The Postal Service has no need to serve the customer

bullshit....i serve people every fucking day....
There is no effort to be efficient or cost effective

once again.....bullshit.....this has been Managements whole mantra the last 3-5 years....
since there are no production goals
getting the Mail out is a very pressing Production goal.....i deal with this every day....so does every other Carrier and Clerks there.....

FedEX certainly rewards effort
they also have fired long time workers who fuck up....and i don't mean a major fuck up something not that severe...i have two drivers who intersect my route telling me this......they wish they had a Union....just because of this.....they feel if they make a mistake they could be gone tomorrow.....especially if the manager is an asshole.....this reason alone is why i feel the PO needs a Union there......they are the same way...

 

[Meister]

so buy Chinese.....im sure that's quality....

I'm with PredFan. I see a union label and get something else. I'll buy Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, Guatemalan, ANYTHING but made by a union shop. There has to be literally no alternative for me to spend my money to support unions. Now that the union forced Chrysler to hire back 13 drug addict drunks to build Jeeps, I feel even MORE strongly about my no union policy.

the thing i look at.....is it made in America.....and i dont give a fuck if its Union or not.....i will support the Country over some stupid bullshit about Unions....

I go for quality and bang for the buck. I will buy Samsung over RCA. I will buy Toyota over Pontiac....why? Because they are a better made product. American made products aren't always the best the market has to offer.

 

[Staidhup]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

You mean they don't want workplace safety, decent wages, right to be protected from abusive bosses?

Of course not. Everyone wants those.

What the "Right to Work" movement does is tell people you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can have all the benefits of being in a union without any of the burdens of being in the union.

Except those benefits usually go out the door when the union does.

Nobody wants to go back to this...

We both know that this will never happen. We have moved beyond the industrial revolution and it's abuses, furthermore, there are laws on the books regarding worker and employer rights. The fundamental reality of the issue is that a company requires skilled hard working individuals, abusing the work force will result in high worker turnover, reduced production, decrease in profits. Now lets try to be realistic and reasonable.

 

[Harry Dresden]

thats not the way it works in the PO.....you have a route to do.....if you do your 8 hour route in say 6 hours because you move out and get it done......your not even thanked by management......they will want to add to your route......or send you out to help those that are not as quick......and the Union has nothing to with that.....that is the Postal Managements way of thinking.....Union or not.....you dont get rewarded for being a superior worker in the PO....but if you fuck up......you hear about it....

The Post Office is government, a monopoly, and union, it is designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. The Postal Service has no need to serve the customer because they have no competition, being a government mandated monopoly. There is no effort to be efficient or cost effective since there is no desire to make a profit. An employee performing well has no impact on the manager, since there are no production goals or sales targets.

FedEX certainly rewards effort.

Actually, the USPS does have competition now and see what's happening. They are constantly running in the red and are cutting back service in order to try and save themselves.

that's not because of competition.....those guys have always been there.....

 

[Uncensored2008]

The Postal Service has no need to serve the customer

bullshit....i serve people every fucking day....

Do you?

If you do or don't - it makes no difference to your job or your union. You can deliver mail the same time every day, and route people first who are waiting for a check. Or you can deliver when you get around to it, there will be no impact on your job. It's not like postal customers can complain to anyone and have action taken.

once again.....bullshit.....this has been Managements whole mantra the last 3-5 years....

Right, that's why no efforts to streamline processes and cut costs have been made.

getting the Mail out is a very pressing Production goal.....i deal with this every day....so does every other Carrier and Clerks there.....

Yawn..

A production goal deals with refining processes to do more with less resources. The only goal of the USPS is to maintain a minimal level of service and get more money from congress.

they also have fired long time workers who fuck up....and i don't mean a major fuck up something not that severe...i have two drivers who intersect my route telling me this......they wish they had a Union....just because of this.....they feel if they make a mistake they could be gone tomorrow.....especially if the manager is an asshole.....this reason alone is why i feel the PO needs a Union there......they are the same way...

My neighbor works for FedEX and gets performance bonuses all the time. I'd love to see you tell him that they want a union. You know full well your claim is utter bullshit.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If someone doens't want a union job they should....

So far those favoring personal responsibility outnumber those favoring nanny state intervention 2 to 1.

 

[syrenn]

If someone doesn't want to work for a union shop, they can move to a right to work state. If an employer doesn't want to be a union shop, they too can move to a right to work state.

That's exactly what's happening.

and that is bullshit.

employers should be able to hire and fire.... who THEY want. It is after all their business and NOT the unions.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

If someone doesn't want to work for a union shop, they can move to a right to work state. If an employer doesn't want to be a union shop, they too can move to a right to work state.

That's exactly what's happening.

and that is bullshit.

employers should be able to hire and fire.... who THEY want. It is after all their business and NOT the unions.

employers also have the freedom to choose whether they want to become a union shop or not.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

I was raised in a teamsters household, UPS employed my father for thirty years. Great benefits and my dad retired at 55. So, my personal view is a little kinder toward organized labor.

I worked for a complex healthcare organization with many unions across three state lines. Professionally I dreaded unions. Difficult, entitled and unyielding.