If someone doens't want a union job they should....

[daveman]

And then unions forcing themselves upon an employer?? What if the employer recognizes the union and still hires non-union employees? You gonna whine for the union when they cry foul? After all, that is an agreement between the business and who they hire

Go fuck yourself with your little twist on words

Unions can't force themselves on employers, as employers are not required to sign any union contract. What happens when an employer hires non-union employees depends on his contractual obligation to the union and it has nothing to do with anyone whining or baseball.

Yes they can with 51% of the workers.

Steps to Creating a Union Workplace

This of course leads to thuggery by unions.

Unions don't give a damn about the workers. They've become that which they were formed to protect against:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

That's all they are.

 

[daveman]

WHY doesn't the labor laws, discrimination laws, and all the other employee laws work at a union shop????? If that's true, then get rid of the unions and let the laws of the state take over! why do we need both?

Because labor laws don't donate to Democrats.

That, of course, is why Democratic leadership supports unions. Workers' money is funneled to Dems, no matter what the proles want done with their dues.

 

[Caroljo]

And what if there are no other jobs in his area? You would be happy if he stayed on welfare and food stamps then, right?

 

[Harry Dresden]

some Unions are different....my shop steward would say that because he knows you can bust your fucking ass in the PO and you aint going to get no raise.....your going to be given more work.....

In a union shop, merit and accomplishment mean nothing. You get paid scale, regardless of effort or achievement. So union employees learn to do the least possible and maneuver for overtime. Then companies go out of business and it's the fault of the republicans.

thats not the way it works in the PO.....you have a route to do.....if you do your 8 hour route in say 6 hours because you move out and get it done......your not even thanked by management......they will want to add to your route......or send you out to help those that are not as quick......and the Union has nothing to with that.....that is the Postal Managements way of thinking.....Union or not.....you dont get rewarded for being a superior worker in the PO....but if you fuck up......you hear about it....

 

[Cowman]

If someone doesn't want a union job they should.... not be forced to pay tribute to a union as a condition of employment.

Then find somewhere else to work, as you guys always say?

 

[Harry Dresden]

WHY doesn't the labor laws, discrimination laws, and all the other employee laws work at a union shop????? If that's true, then get rid of the unions and let the laws of the state take over! why do we need both?

OSHA is a joke at the PO.....and to some extent so is the Dept of Labor.....they ask the PO if the problem has been taken care of......they say either yes or we are working on it.....that's good enough for them.....our fellow agency says they are taking care of it.....some cases have gone on for quite while.......

 

[gallantwarrior]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

No one is. If you don't want a union job don't apply for one. No one forces anyone to take a job at a union shop.

Fair enough. But the option should be available for employers and employees alike.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I will never ever knowingly buy anything that is union made. I have had this policy since about 1990s or so. Any time I see a union label, I opt out.

so buy Chinese.....im sure that's quality....

 

[gallantwarrior]

So... take responsibility and seek employment elsewhere - or get the state to force businesses to provide jobs tailored to their liking?

why elsewhere?

the the business hires him... not the union.

In a union shop its the union that has negotiated your wages. If you don't think those wages are high enough to justify paying union dues - get yourself a job elsewhere. The idea that you should be able to swoop in and capitalize on the wage negotiations that someone else made for free is an example of LACKING PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Seriously folks - either one of two things are true:

1) Union jobs are better.
2) Union jobs are worse.


If 2) is true then you should have no problem with union shops, as why would you want a job there anyway? Just go to a non-union shop and get your better job. If those are the better jobs then the more talented workforce will be attracted to them and those businesses will perform better and you'll be working at a successful company with quality workers.

If 1) is true then its apparent you expect you should be able to get a job that was made better by the union for FREE.

Which is it?

You know what? I am quite capable of marketing my skills and work ethic without having to pay some lame-assed union. If you are truly an asset to the company, you can usually negotiate something more to your liking. I work exactly the shift hours I want, have the days off I want, and am satisfied with the pay I receive. All achieved on my own merit.

 

[JoeB131]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

You mean they don't want workplace safety, decent wages, right to be protected from abusive bosses?

Of course not. Everyone wants those.

What the "Right to Work" movement does is tell people you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can have all the benefits of being in a union without any of the burdens of being in the union.

Except those benefits usually go out the door when the union does.

Nobody wants to go back to this...

what year is it?? 1860 or 2012??

Use over the top emotion in all your arguments?

That picture is from some time in the 1900's, before Teddy Roosevelt actually fought against Child Labor laws.

And frankly, in a lot of the world, they DO use child labor. Those young-go getters are making their economies "More competitive", the euphamism the plutocrats use when they say why they need to break the middle class just a little bit more.

 

[JoeB131]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

No one is. If you don't want a union job don't apply for one. No one forces anyone to take a job at a union shop.

The fucking union doesn't own the shop and the fucking union doesn't hire people.

The business hires people and if a person the business owner wants to hire does not want to be in a union it's no one's business but theirs.

You people are all for freedom right?

The problem is that fucking union slugs have to be told what to do or they can't function and they are threatened by people who can think for themselves.

Or they just realize the game is better played on an even playing field.

Business owners only exist because the rest of us tolerate them. How many businesses have sunk because bad publicity did them in?

Good business owners would have no issue with a union, because they'd already be doing the right thing.

Douchebags? Fuck them.

 

[JoeB131]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

You mean they don't want workplace safety, decent wages, right to be protected from abusive bosses?

Of course not. Everyone wants those.

What the "Right to Work" movement does is tell people you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can have all the benefits of being in a union without any of the burdens of being in the union.

Except those benefits usually go out the door when the union does.

Nobody wants to go back to this...

Wait, did the companies take those kids from the parents homes?

Is that what you're saying?

It would take too long to educate your profound ignorance of labor history in this country, obviously...

Another product of education where they teach about talking snakes in biology class.

 

[JoeB131]

What's "free market" about forcing people to pay for services they don't want?

You mean they don't want workplace safety, decent wages, right to be protected from abusive bosses?

Of course not. Everyone wants those.

What the "Right to Work" movement does is tell people you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can have all the benefits of being in a union without any of the burdens of being in the union.

Except those benefits usually go out the door when the union does.

Nobody wants to go back to this...

I challenge every dipshit like yourself to visit an Intel fab. You won't find a safer workplace on the planet. You would be astonished at their level of safety mindedness.

And the workers receive excellent pay and benefits.

And not a union worker in the bunch!

.

How much of Intel's manufacturing is actually done in China or some other Asian hellhole, right now? Or do you think showing us a picture of their American Prototype lab is supposed to impress me?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Yeah so? Unions slugs are way overpaid. Everyone knows that.

Define, "Overpaid".

My opinion, Ed Hanaway, the CEO of Cigna who denied a 17 year old girl a liver transplant and got a 73 Million dollar severance package was overpaid.

Wagoneer, the CEO of GM before the Government Takeover getting paid 12 million a year after running the company into the ground was overpaid.

A auto-worker making $28.00 a hour isn't overpaid.

Seriously, this mentality of "I want you to work harder for less money, we'll call it "right to work"" and you think this is a good thing? Really?

 

[Desperado]

Unions at one time served a purpose and actually did some good, but that was then and this is now.
When unions were at their best there was no Department of Labor or OSHA. Now, these government agencies have taken over the role of protecting the workers that unions played back than. Unions now are simply another deduction on a workers paycheck and another level of management the worker has to contend with.

 

[JoeB131]

Unions at one time served a purpose and actually did some good, but that was then and this is now.
When unions were at their best there was no Department of Labor or OSHA. Now, these government agencies have taken over the role of protecting the workers that unions played back than. Unions now are simply another deduction on a workers paycheck and another level of management the worker has to contend with.

I find it amusing that the same people who insist government takes too long and is too inept to be trusted are all for govenrment agencies when they are offered as the alternative to actually empowering workers.

Unions resolve problems on the spot, as opposed to OSHA, which might take months to litigate a problem. The thing is, no one calls OSHA while they are still working there. OSHA gets called as a final fuck you to an employer when you get fired. That's really not helping anyone, honestly.

 

[zeke]

Of only the right wing whack jobs would be truthful.

You all could give fuk less about unions. And like ohhpoo says; you don't want to pay union dues, don't apply to work at that company.

And if those none union jobs are so fuking good, why would anyone want to work in a union shop?

Of course if the companies got the ok to hire and not honor the union contract they entered into, and the new hires (non union) got paid half what the union guys got paid, would that be ok? Sure it would.

But really, the only problem with the rethugs and the unions is that union members tend to vote, and vote for Democrats.

And that is the problem they are trying to "fix". They could give a shit about "wages" and "benefits" and "workplace safety" and all that.

Union dues supporting Dems is the problem. The only problem. Just that the rethugs can't be honest enough to admit it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Of only the right wing whack jobs would be truthful.

You all could give fuk less about unions. And like ohhpoo says; you don't want to pay union dues, don't apply to work at that company.

And if those none union jobs are so fuking good, why would anyone want to work in a union shop?

Of course if the companies got the ok to hire and not honor the union contract they entered into, and the new hires (non union) got paid half what the union guys got paid, would that be ok? Sure it would.

But really, the only problem with the rethugs and the unions is that union members tend to vote, and vote for Democrats.

And that is the problem they are trying to "fix". They could give a shit about "wages" and "benefits" and "workplace safety" and all that.

Union dues supporting Dems is the problem. The only problem. Just that the rethugs can't be honest enough to admit it.

The job itself has absolutely nothing to do with the union.

If i want to be a welder because I love it why should I be forced to pay union dues if I don't want union representation?

If I want to teach....

etc etc.

The job is the job and the union has nothing to do with the job.

There is no such thing as a union job.

 

[Jarhead]

If someone doens't want a union job they should....

If someone doesnt want a union job, they should take a job elsewhere.

If someone doesnt like their pay and benefits they should take a job elsewhere.

For some reason the left agrees with the first sentence.....

But the second sentence? NO....if they dont like their pay and benefits, they should strike, riot, scream, kick, and blame "the man".

Love the hypocrisy.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You mean they don't want workplace safety, decent wages, right to be protected from abusive bosses?

Of course not. Everyone wants those.

What the "Right to Work" movement does is tell people you can have your cake and eat it, too. You can have all the benefits of being in a union without any of the burdens of being in the union.

Except those benefits usually go out the door when the union does.

Nobody wants to go back to this...

what year is it?? 1860 or 2012??

Use over the top emotion in all your arguments?

That picture is from some time in the 1900's, before Teddy Roosevelt actually fought against Child Labor laws.

And frankly, in a lot of the world, they DO use child labor. Those young-go getters are making their economies "More competitive", the euphamism the plutocrats use when they say why they need to break the middle class just a little bit more.

are you sure that's not Jackie Cooper on the right in the back?....