If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster

[CrusaderFrank]

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

The so-called "employer contribution" is another 6.2%. Only numskulls like you believe that doesn't come out of your salary.

I'm fine with it coming out of my salary, my grandparents lived a long and enjoyable life thanks to social security.

Obama twice threatened to withhold Social Security checks. Your grandparents cool with that?

 

[David_42]

You want millions of seniors to trust and rely on a select few trusted individuals

I would think that after decades of a long term business relationship those seniors would have long figured out the trustworthiness of the company with whom they're doing business.

and what about the ones who choose wrong?

That's their fault.

Can't afford to invest earlier in life?

Stop taking hundreds of dollars out of their paychecks every week, and they'll have plenty of extra money to invest early in life.

You assume employers will suddenly decide to start raising wages.. That's clearly what happened when regulations didn't exist and labor unions were nonexistent.. Oh, good, their fault.. So you agree people are going to be fucked without SS?

Just for fun, I calculated out how much I pay into SS, and instead had that diverted to my mutual funds, at their current rate of return, over the next 30 years. I would have over half a million dollars.

Or.... my current payout from Social Security at retirement, which will be $700 a month....

So let's see..... Your plan - $700 a month until I die.
My plan - Half a million.

$700 a month..... or half a million...... Yeah, I can see how screwed over I'll be without SS...... entirely.

Actually, that's not all that true either, because without the employer paying that 6.2% tax, he would be able to pay me more, which means I could divert that towards my retirement as well. Which means I could well get a full million at retirement.

Let's see.... $700 a month.... or millionaire.... If that's what you mean by "fucked" without Social Security... please sign me up.

Funny thing, SS is a system that many people contribute to for the benefit of the majority, and American opinion demonstrates this. Yes, and the millions on SS would have flawless mutual funds.. LOL.

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

From a NYT article regarding Chile's private pension plan.......

Many young people, who should be enrolling in the system early to accrue maximum benefit, are staying out or paying in very little. Some cannot afford to contribute beyond the obligatory minimum payment, which is 10 percent of wages, while others are either self-employed or have been hired by companies as low-paid independent contract workers and thus do not have to contribute at all.
"The bottom line is that this system does not work with this labor market," said Andras Uthoff, an economist who is director of the social development division of the UN Economic Commission for Latin America here. If current trends continue, he added, "only a small percentage of people are going to be able to finance meaningful pensions. What happens then to the rest?"
As a result of such doubts, attacking the pension system and especially the perceived excesses of the funds has become a surefire source of votes. One of the big winners in the first round of the election last month, for example, was Guido Girardi, a senator-elect and Bachelet supporter who has taken upon himself the role of scourge of the private management funds.
"I am going to do away with these thieves in jackets and ties," Girardi said. "We are going to defend the citizenry from these funds that rob people of their pensions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/world/americas/10iht-chile.html?_r=0

I thought self employed in the USA was 15.2% or it was at one time recently

That's full FICA. That includes 2.9% for Medicare. Social Security is 12.4% of wages.

 

[Andylusion]

I would think that after decades of a long term business relationship those seniors would have long figured out the trustworthiness of the company with whom they're doing business.

That's their fault.

Stop taking hundreds of dollars out of their paychecks every week, and they'll have plenty of extra money to invest early in life.

You assume employers will suddenly decide to start raising wages.. That's clearly what happened when regulations didn't exist and labor unions were nonexistent.. Oh, good, their fault.. So you agree people are going to be fucked without SS?

Just for fun, I calculated out how much I pay into SS, and instead had that diverted to my mutual funds, at their current rate of return, over the next 30 years. I would have over half a million dollars.

Or.... my current payout from Social Security at retirement, which will be $700 a month....

So let's see..... Your plan - $700 a month until I die.
My plan - Half a million.

$700 a month..... or half a million...... Yeah, I can see how screwed over I'll be without SS...... entirely.

Actually, that's not all that true either, because without the employer paying that 6.2% tax, he would be able to pay me more, which means I could divert that towards my retirement as well. Which means I could well get a full million at retirement.

Let's see.... $700 a month.... or millionaire.... If that's what you mean by "fucked" without Social Security... please sign me up.

Funny thing, SS is a system that many people contribute to for the benefit of the majority, and American opinion demonstrates this. Yes, and the millions on SS would have flawless mutual funds.. LOL.

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

When we see you demanding that everyone be doomed to poverty, we think the same about you. What a wonderful human being.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

From a NYT article regarding Chile's private pension plan.......

Many young people, who should be enrolling in the system early to accrue maximum benefit, are staying out or paying in very little. Some cannot afford to contribute beyond the obligatory minimum payment, which is 10 percent of wages, while others are either self-employed or have been hired by companies as low-paid independent contract workers and thus do not have to contribute at all.
"The bottom line is that this system does not work with this labor market," said Andras Uthoff, an economist who is director of the social development division of the UN Economic Commission for Latin America here. If current trends continue, he added, "only a small percentage of people are going to be able to finance meaningful pensions. What happens then to the rest?"
As a result of such doubts, attacking the pension system and especially the perceived excesses of the funds has become a surefire source of votes. One of the big winners in the first round of the election last month, for example, was Guido Girardi, a senator-elect and Bachelet supporter who has taken upon himself the role of scourge of the private management funds.
"I am going to do away with these thieves in jackets and ties," Girardi said. "We are going to defend the citizenry from these funds that rob people of their pensions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/world/americas/10iht-chile.html?_r=0

I thought self employed in the USA was 15.2% or it was at one time recently

That also includes the Medicare and Medicaid tax.

 

[bripat9643]

I would think that after decades of a long term business relationship those seniors would have long figured out the trustworthiness of the company with whom they're doing business.

That's their fault.

Stop taking hundreds of dollars out of their paychecks every week, and they'll have plenty of extra money to invest early in life.

You assume employers will suddenly decide to start raising wages.. That's clearly what happened when regulations didn't exist and labor unions were nonexistent.. Oh, good, their fault.. So you agree people are going to be fucked without SS?

Just for fun, I calculated out how much I pay into SS, and instead had that diverted to my mutual funds, at their current rate of return, over the next 30 years. I would have over half a million dollars.

Or.... my current payout from Social Security at retirement, which will be $700 a month....

So let's see..... Your plan - $700 a month until I die.
My plan - Half a million.

$700 a month..... or half a million...... Yeah, I can see how screwed over I'll be without SS...... entirely.

Actually, that's not all that true either, because without the employer paying that 6.2% tax, he would be able to pay me more, which means I could divert that towards my retirement as well. Which means I could well get a full million at retirement.

Let's see.... $700 a month.... or millionaire.... If that's what you mean by "fucked" without Social Security... please sign me up.

Funny thing, SS is a system that many people contribute to for the benefit of the majority, and American opinion demonstrates this. Yes, and the millions on SS would have flawless mutual funds.. LOL.

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

I'm not a deluded hypocrite like you. We both know you wouldn't contribute a dime to SS if the government didn't compel you to. Yet, you go strutting around looking down your nose at people because they acknowledge the simple truth.

 

[bripat9643]

You assume employers will suddenly decide to start raising wages.. That's clearly what happened when regulations didn't exist and labor unions were nonexistent.. Oh, good, their fault.. So you agree people are going to be fucked without SS?

Just for fun, I calculated out how much I pay into SS, and instead had that diverted to my mutual funds, at their current rate of return, over the next 30 years. I would have over half a million dollars.

Or.... my current payout from Social Security at retirement, which will be $700 a month....

So let's see..... Your plan - $700 a month until I die.
My plan - Half a million.

$700 a month..... or half a million...... Yeah, I can see how screwed over I'll be without SS...... entirely.

Actually, that's not all that true either, because without the employer paying that 6.2% tax, he would be able to pay me more, which means I could divert that towards my retirement as well. Which means I could well get a full million at retirement.

Let's see.... $700 a month.... or millionaire.... If that's what you mean by "fucked" without Social Security... please sign me up.

Funny thing, SS is a system that many people contribute to for the benefit of the majority, and American opinion demonstrates this. Yes, and the millions on SS would have flawless mutual funds.. LOL.

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

When we see you demanding that everyone be doomed to poverty, we think the same about you. What a wonderful human being.

"When we see you demanding that everyone be doomed to poverty, we think the same about you. What a wonderful human being."

 

[nat4900]

Well, right wingers, now that you've done pissing in the wind.....don't forget to dry up.......LOL

 

[bripat9643]

Well, right wingers, now that you've done pissing in the wind.....don't forget to dry up.......LOL

That must be your way of admitting you lost the argument.

 

[nat4900]

That must be your way of admitting you lost the argument.

I have an old saying.....One can't fix right wing stupidity on a forum board.

 

[bripat9643]

That must be your way of admitting you lost the argument.

I have an old saying.....One can't fix right wing stupidity on a forum board.

You haven't been able to identify it so far.

 

[Staidhup]

FYI, most retired investors tend to invest in lower risk securities, like T Bills and bonds. A diversified basket of Bonds, ETF's, T Bills, mutual funds, and dividend paying Blue Chips tend to weather the financial storm. What makes you think most wage earners are not capable of taking care of their financial security. To think the average worker would own outright the assets accumulated and could pass them on to successive generations is counter to the liberal belief that their voter base should be dependent upon government for their very existence. But then again most liberals don't trust the common man.

 

[nat4900]

You haven't been able to identify it so far.

Got a mirror handy?

 

[bripat9643]

You haven't been able to identify it so far.

Got a mirror handy?

That must be your conception of wit.

 

[Andylusion]

Well, right wingers, now that you've done pissing in the wind.....don't forget to dry up.......LOL

What? Good heavens... the combined effort of 4 different people, have used facts to smack around every single left-winger on this thread, worse than Ferguson police smack around criminals.

We've left David with nothing more to say than "What a wonderful human being.", and now this post is all you can say?

Can't argue the facts of topic. Can't deny the evidence we've given. Dude... you are dismissed. You can go now. Thanks for stopping by.

Let us know if there is any other left-wing-myths you want smashed. We're here to help.

 

[Andylusion]

That must be your way of admitting you lost the argument.

I have an old saying.....One can't fix right wing stupidity on a forum board.

How would you know either way? You haven't said anything that WASN'T stupid, yet.

Yeah, you can't fix right-wing stupidity, when you are only spewing stupidity. You got that right! Likely the first entirely true and accurate statement you have made this entire thread! Congrats! Gold star for sparky!

You earned that!

 

[David_42]

You assume employers will suddenly decide to start raising wages.. That's clearly what happened when regulations didn't exist and labor unions were nonexistent.. Oh, good, their fault.. So you agree people are going to be fucked without SS?

Just for fun, I calculated out how much I pay into SS, and instead had that diverted to my mutual funds, at their current rate of return, over the next 30 years. I would have over half a million dollars.

Or.... my current payout from Social Security at retirement, which will be $700 a month....

So let's see..... Your plan - $700 a month until I die.
My plan - Half a million.

$700 a month..... or half a million...... Yeah, I can see how screwed over I'll be without SS...... entirely.

Actually, that's not all that true either, because without the employer paying that 6.2% tax, he would be able to pay me more, which means I could divert that towards my retirement as well. Which means I could well get a full million at retirement.

Let's see.... $700 a month.... or millionaire.... If that's what you mean by "fucked" without Social Security... please sign me up.

Funny thing, SS is a system that many people contribute to for the benefit of the majority, and American opinion demonstrates this. Yes, and the millions on SS would have flawless mutual funds.. LOL.

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

When we see you demanding that everyone be doomed to poverty, we think the same about you. What a wonderful human being.

LOL.

 

[Andylusion]

Just for fun, I calculated out how much I pay into SS, and instead had that diverted to my mutual funds, at their current rate of return, over the next 30 years. I would have over half a million dollars.

Or.... my current payout from Social Security at retirement, which will be $700 a month....

So let's see..... Your plan - $700 a month until I die.
My plan - Half a million.

$700 a month..... or half a million...... Yeah, I can see how screwed over I'll be without SS...... entirely.

Actually, that's not all that true either, because without the employer paying that 6.2% tax, he would be able to pay me more, which means I could divert that towards my retirement as well. Which means I could well get a full million at retirement.

Let's see.... $700 a month.... or millionaire.... If that's what you mean by "fucked" without Social Security... please sign me up.

Funny thing, SS is a system that many people contribute to for the benefit of the majority, and American opinion demonstrates this. Yes, and the millions on SS would have flawless mutual funds.. LOL.

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

When we see you demanding that everyone be doomed to poverty, we think the same about you. What a wonderful human being.

LOL.

LOL

 

[David_42]

Funny thing, SS is a system that many people contribute to for the benefit of the majority, and American opinion demonstrates this. Yes, and the millions on SS would have flawless mutual funds.. LOL.

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

When we see you demanding that everyone be doomed to poverty, we think the same about you. What a wonderful human being.

LOL.

LOL

Welfare programs shown to reduce poverty in America
Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out Of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
LOLOLOL.

 

[Andylusion]

Wrong. It doesn't take flawless mutual funds. It will take just an average rate of return.

I don't contribute to SS for the benefit of the majority. I don't give a hoot about the majority. I "contribute" because the government forces me to, and for no other reason.

What a wonderful human being.

When we see you demanding that everyone be doomed to poverty, we think the same about you. What a wonderful human being.

LOL.

LOL

Welfare programs shown to reduce poverty in America
Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out Of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
LOLOLOL.

And now you are typing "LOLOLOL".... really? The longer you are on this thread, the more childish you act.

Apparently my sarcastic mocking of your last non-responsive post wasn't obvious enough.

And worse, you still obviously missed everything that we've been saying this entire thread, because without even reading your posts, the information is already irrelevant.... and you don't know why I wager.

First, saying that those programs 'reduce poverty', when they cost 12.4% of their income which they could have used to have a half million dollars by now, is ridiculous. You prevented me from being a millionaire.... and now you give me $700 a month so that I'm not in poverty? All of the research ignores how wealthy one might have been, had they been allowed to keep their own money.

But let's even ignore that for a moment..........

Let's say that Social Security does "keep 22 million Americans out of poverty"..... Did you miss the memo?

Feds: Social Security Disability Fund Goes Broke Next Year
CBO warns lawmakers that Social Security is still going broke | FreedomWorks

Trustees Report Summary

After 2019, Treasury will redeem trust fund asset reserves to the extent that program cost exceeds tax revenue and interest earnings until depletion of total trust fund reserves in 2034, one year later than projected in last year’s Trustees Report. Thereafter, tax income is projected to be sufficient to pay about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through the end of the projection period in 2089.​

"But but.... 22 million out of poverty!" GOING BROKE "But but people like it!" CUTTING BENEFITS "But but!!"

THREE QUARTERS...... Right now the average Social Security check is $1,270. The average check would drop to $950.

Now the average check is lower than a Walmart Greeter makes. Some people's checks will be just $500 a month.

Even if we assume that SS is keeping people out of poverty now..... IT WON'T in the future. Which is the whole reason we're talking about it now.... or should be unless you are a brainless, left-wing mindless troll that types LOLOLOL like he's still in middle school, and doesn't care about the facts of reality. If you are one of those immature idiots... ok..... then your response is brilliantly perfect for the type of person you apparently are.