If it is your body & your choice why the he'll do I have to pay for the next 18 years?

[Syriusly]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

 

[Skylar]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

"Responsibly'? With the possible exception of Mary, no woman has ever gotten pregnant solo.

You're not only insisting that a man should never be held responsible for any child he fathers....but you're insisting its the mother's fault alone if she gets pregnant.Which last time I checked was a biological impossibility.

I'm guessing you're not a conservative. As those guys at least give lip service to personal responsibility. Where men in your scenario aren't responsible for anything they do.

Please stop lying. I have never said that a man should not EVER be held responsible for his child.

Sure you have. You've insisted that any father can abdicate his obligations to care for his child. You've been arguing this for days.

Have you suddenly abandoned this position? If so, good. It was laughable. If no, why? Remember, your imaginary 'but he didn't want to be a daddy!' basis of obligation doesn't actually exist. Its pseudo-legal gibberish.

A child's right to support is the actual basis of a father's obligation to support his own kids.

Which isn't 'insane' in the slightest. But completely reasonable.

 

[Skylar]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

And? When babies do happen, they have a right to support from both parents.

Ignoring this fact doesn't make the situation change. Surely you realize that.

 

[dilloduck]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

And? When babies do happen, they have a right to support from both parents.

Ignoring this fact doesn't make the situation change. Surely you realize that.

Try approaching this from a reality based perspective. Babies don't just happen. Surely your a bit more sophisticated than that. Babies cannot "happen" without at least two consents from the mother and she STILL has the option of putting it up for adoption. So neither father not mother will be financially responsible for the baby but it does get to live.

 

[Slyhunter]

If the woman has a right to walk away from her responsibility then so should the man.

No woman does.

A woman has the choice of terminating her pregnancy- but when a baby is born- she has no right to walk away from her responsibility.

Do you think the man should be able to force her to have an abortion if he doesn't want to be responsible?

If the man is willing to pay for the abortion and the woman wants to have the baby he should be free of all responsibilities for the baby.

That is not an equal choice- that is just a man opting out.

No woman does.

A woman has the choice of terminating her pregnancy- but when a baby is born- she has no right to walk away from her responsibility.

A man either has the choice of terminating her pregnancy- which I would hope you would agree he cannot decide- or he doesn't- and anything else is not 'equal'- its just an excuse to get out of being responsible for the man's child.

If the man is willing to pay for the abortion and the woman chooses to keep the child the man should not be forced to pay for the child.

 

[Slyhunter]

could she be forced to choose between abortion and adoption? That would make things fair.

 

[dilloduck]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

 

[Valerie]

you want to ask biggy daddy government to referee your relationships, dillo?

 

[Skylar]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

And? When babies do happen, they have a right to support from both parents.

Ignoring this fact doesn't make the situation change. Surely you realize that.

Try approaching this from a reality based perspective. Babies don't just happen. Surely your a bit more sophisticated than that. Babies cannot "happen" without at least two consents from the mother and she STILL has the option of putting it up for adoption. So neither father not mother will be financially responsible for the baby but it does get to live.

Try approaching this from a perspective of relevance: nothing you posted matters as far as a father's obligation to support his own children. When his kid is born, its his obligation to support it. As the child has a right to that support.

You keep getting hung up on the choice the mother has compared to the father. Its irrelevant. As his 'choice to be a father' isn't the basis of his obligation. The child's right to support from both parents is.

Any argument you make where the basis of a father's obligation is his choice to be a father is already dead. As that basis is imaginary bullshit.

 

[Skylar]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

 

[dilloduck]

you want to ask biggy daddy government to referee your relationships, dillo?

Why not ? Women have already done that.

 

[Skylar]

you want to ask biggy daddy government to referee your relationships, dillo?

Why not ? Women have already done that.

A man's obligation isn't to a woman. Its to his child. Its the child that has a right to support.

You can't get around that.

 

[dilloduck]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

And? When babies do happen, they have a right to support from both parents.

Ignoring this fact doesn't make the situation change. Surely you realize that.

Try approaching this from a reality based perspective. Babies don't just happen. Surely your a bit more sophisticated than that. Babies cannot "happen" without at least two consents from the mother and she STILL has the option of putting it up for adoption. So neither father not mother will be financially responsible for the baby but it does get to live.

Try approaching this from a perspective of relevance: nothing you posted matters as far as a father's obligation to support his own children. When his kid is born, its his obligation to support it. As the child has a right to that support.

You keep getting hung up on the choice the mother has compared to the father. Its irrelevant. As his 'choice to be a father' isn't the basis of his obligation. The child's right to support from both parents is.

Any argument you make where the basis of a father's obligation is his choice to be a father is already dead. As that basis is imaginary bullshit.

There is no obligation to a fetus. It can be flushed. Why do you think fathers are irrelevant?

 

[dilloduck]

you want to ask biggy daddy government to referee your relationships, dillo?

Why not ? Women have already done that.

A man's obligation isn't to a woman. Its to his child. Its the child that has a right to support.

You can't get around that.

There is no child unless a woman says so----all by her self. She's in total control. Are you clueless as to what choice is ?

 

[dilloduck]

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

no one cares about controlling a woman's body. One would hope that she could at least manage it responsibly. How come she can't have sex without having a child ? Only an idiot can pull that one off these days.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

I love it----on one hand the child has rights and on the other hand it can be flushed. Classic liberal hypocrisy.

 

[Skylar]

you want to ask biggy daddy government to referee your relationships, dillo?

Why not ? Women have already done that.

A man's obligation isn't to a woman. Its to his child. Its the child that has a right to support.

You can't get around that.

There is no child unless a woman says so----all by her self. She's in total control. Are you clueless as to what choice is ?

A man's 'say' in if the kid is born is irrelevant to his obligation to support his own child. It doesn't matter if he wants to be a father. it doesn't matter if a mother has more control over a child's birth than he does.

His control over the birth, his choice to be a father have nothing to do with his obligation to support his kids.

A child's right to support does.

You can't get around this.

 

[Skylar]

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

I love it----on one hand the child has rights and on the other hand it can be flushed. Classic liberal hypocrisy.

Neither a mother nor a father's obligation to support their child begins until the child is born.

 

[Slyhunter]

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

I love it----on one hand the child has rights and on the other hand it can be flushed. Classic liberal hypocrisy.

Neither a mother nor a father's obligation to support their child begins until the child is born.

considering the 18 years repercussion to the man, the man should get a say in whether a woman should abort. If abortion is legal the man should have equal say in it.

 

[Syriusly]

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

I love it----on one hand the child has rights and on the other hand it can be flushed. Classic liberal hypocrisy.

Neither a mother nor a father's obligation to support their child begins until the child is born.

considering the 18 years repercussion to the man, the man should get a say in whether a woman should abort. If abortion is legal the man should have equal say in it.

Considering that the man has no say over what the woman does with her body- nor does the woman have any say in what the man does with his body, the man's choice is whether or not to take the chance on fathering a child- once he has made that choice- he is responsible for any child he bears- just as a woman is responsible for any child she bears.

No- men don't get a 'I don't want to be a parent, so I can abandon my child if I want' card- nor a "If the woman refuses to abort, then I am off the hook' card either.

 

[Syriusly]

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

How come the man can't have sex without having a child?

You really, really want to blame women for everything when it comes to sex and babies.

Sure you want to control the woman's body- you either want to be able to force her to get an abortion- or you want to be able to tell her that she- and she alone is responsible for yours and her child.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all.

Absolutely-----babies would NEVER happen were it not for several decisions that a woman makes.

Babies would never happen if both the man and the woman make decisions.

As a man- and a father- this is really quite simple- don't want to be responsible for a child?

• Don't stick your penis in a vagina or
• Get snipped

Anything less- even condoms- means you are knowingly risking becoming a parent- whether you really want to or not.

And any man who would decide to abandon his child simply because he didn't want to be burdened by the responsibility is no man at all

Well let's go crazy and assume both parties want to have sex and eventually have children BUT NOT NOW. Step one goes wrong and they are pregnant. Step two-----another decision is made. Why isn't the man involved in that one ?

Doesn't matter. 'Wanting to be a parent' isn't the basis of a dad's obligation. A child's right to support is.

I love it----on one hand the child has rights and on the other hand it can be flushed. Classic liberal hypocrisy.

A child does have rights.

If you kill a child and, chop it up and flush it down the drain so you as a father can escape your fiscal responsibilities- then you are a murderer and should be imprisoned.

I think you are confusing issues.

If you think abortion is murder- then you want the choice to be able to participate in murder.
If you don't think abortion is murder- then we are in agreement- and both parents are responsible for their child.