I really love my country....but I also acknowledge facts...

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Yes, our country is simply great for many, many reasons and, all in all, I'd rather live the rest of my days within the U.S. and enjoy all that she has to offer.

However, facts are facts.....and the right wing segment of our society that blindly espouse their belief in "American exceptionalism," are simply not dealing with facts.

Consider that when it comes to healthcare we rank 37th in the world, while spending almost 3 times as much as anywhere else on the planet. Further, when it comes to life-expectancy, the US has an average of 79 years, compared to 81 in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands.......compared to 82 in France, Italy, Sweden, Spain and Canada......abd compared to 83 in countries like Japan and Switzerland.

So, when we boast of our "exceptionalism," ...at least regarding our longevity....we best deal with facts

You betcha'. I have a new primary care physician, he is Turkish with a name I cannot pronounce. And I can only afford him now because of my new policy through the ACA. I really like him. He's probably the best PCP I've ever been to.

And after the initial exam we talked a bit and he said, "So this Obama, despite the right trying to derail the new healthcare law, how is this working for you?" And I said just freaking grand since I am getting a much better deal on blood work and routine tests now. He said it was working well for him, too, but acknowledged that overall American health care sucks and said, "I don't know why Republicans want everyone who cannot get health insurance to go to the ER every time they need medical attention. Don't they realize this just drives up their costs and policies?" I dunno doc, you got me.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

We have far and away the #1 healthcare system in the world, you're not doing to well on dealing with facts[/QUOTE]

First, its "too well" and not "to well" (which would be another discussion on our exceptionalism regarding education.)

But, we have the best health care system ONLY for those who can afford it.....and we subsidize that system by paying 3 times as much as any other industrialized nation on the planet.[/QUOTE]


True. Works well for the wealthy and members of federal government.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg got a procedure which saved her life about six years ago. She was at Sloan Kettering in NYC at the same time we were, when my late spouse was trying to get our shitty insurance (through Princeton U, no less) to cover the same procedure. Note I said "late" spouse. And note that RBG is still alive and kicking.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

and whats the big deal , looks like you are talking about what , 79 for Americans compared to a Japanese guy , probably a woman . 79 to 83 , 4 years probably due to diet choices so just eat more fish , drink some tea .

If the above is the extent of your knowledge of statistics, no debate is necessary.

Yeah, Nat. Crack open that can of tuna and suck down some Lipton, dammit.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Chris Hedges is brilliant.

 

[daws101]

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems. Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task.

See also: Preventable Deaths By Country
See also: Healthy Life Expectancy By Country
See also: Health Performance Rank By Country
See also: Total Health Expenditure as % of GDP (2000-2005)
See also: Main Country Ranks Page

• 
  Rank Country
  1 France
  2 Italy
  3 San Marino
  4 Andorra
  5 Malta
  6 Singapore
  7 Spain
  8 Oman
  9 Austria
  10 Japan
  11 Norway
  12 Portugal
  13 Monaco
  14 Greece
  15 Iceland
  16 Luxembourg
  17 Netherlands
  18 United Kingdom
  19 Ireland
  20 Switzerland
  21 Belgium
  22 Colombia
  23 Sweden
  24 Cyprus
  25 Germany
  26 Saudi Arabia
  27 United Arab Emirates
  28 Israel
  29 Morocco
  30 Canada
  31 Finland
  32 Australia
  33 Chile
  34 Denmark
  35 Dominica
  36 Costa Rica
  37 United States of America
  
  38 Slovenia
  39 Cuba
  40 Brunei
  41 New Zealand
  42 Bahrain
  43 Croatia
  44 Qatar
  45 Kuwait
  46 Barbados
  47 Thailand
  48 Czech Republic
  49 Malaysia
  50 Poland
  51 Dominican Republic
  52 Tunisia
  53 Jamaica
  54 Venezuela
  55 Albania
  56 Seychelles
  57 Paraguay
  58 South Korea
  59 Senegal
  60 Philippines
  61 Mexico
  62 Slovakia
  63 Egypt
  64 Kazakhstan
  65 Uruguay
  66 Hungary
  67 Trinidad and Tobago
  68 Saint Lucia
  69 Belize
  70 Turkey
  71 Nicaragua
  72 Belarus
  73 Lithuania
  74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
  75 Argentina
  76 Sri Lanka
  77 Estonia
  78 Guatemala
  79 Ukraine
  80 Solomon Islands
  81 Algeria
  82 Palau
  83 Jordan
  84 Mauritius
  85 Grenada
  86 Antigua and Barbuda
  87 Libya
  88 Bangladesh
  89 Macedonia
  90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
  91 Lebanon
  92 Indonesia
  93 Iran
  94 Bahamas
  95 Panama
  96 Fiji
  97 Benin
  98 Nauru
  99 Romania
  100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
  101 Moldova
  102 Bulgaria
  103 Iraq
  104 Armenia
  105 Latvia
  106 Yugoslavia
  107 Cook Islands
  108 Syria
  109 Azerbaijan
  110 Suriname
  111 Ecuador
  112 India
  113 Cape Verde
  114 Georgia
  115 El Salvador
  116 Tonga
  117 Uzbekistan
  118 Comoros
  119 Samoa
  120 Yemen
  121 Niue
  122 Pakistan
  123 Micronesia
  124 Bhutan
  125 Brazil
  126 Bolivia
  127 Vanuatu
  128 Guyana
  129 Peru
  130 Russia
  131 Honduras
  132 Burkina Faso
  133 Sao Tome and Principe
  134 Sudan
  135 Ghana
  136 Tuvalu
  137 Ivory Coast
  138 Haiti
  139 Gabon
  140 Kenya
  141 Marshall Islands
  142 Kiribati
  143 Burundi
  144 China
  145 Mongolia
  146 Gambia
  147 Maldives
  148 Papua New Guinea
  149 Uganda
  150 Nepal
  151 Kyrgystan
  152 Togo
  153 Turkmenistan
  154 Tajikistan
  155 Zimbabwe
  156 Tanzania
  157 Djibouti
  158 Eritrea
  159 Madagascar
  160 Vietnam
  161 Guinea
  162 Mauritania
  163 Mali
  164 Cameroon
  165 Laos
  166 Congo
  167 North Korea
  168 Namibia
  169 Botswana
  170 Niger
  171 Equatorial Guinea
  172 Rwanda
  173 Afghanistan
  174 Cambodia
  175 South Africa
  176 Guinea-Bissau
  177 Swaziland
  178 Chad
  179 Somalia
  180 Ethiopia
  181 Angola
  182 Zambia
  183 Lesotho
  184 Mozambique
  185 Malawi
  186 Liberia
  187 Nigeria
  188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
  189 Central African Republic
  190 Myanmar
  
  The World Health Organization s ranking of the world s health systems

 

[nat4900]

[/QUOTE]
You betcha'. I have a new primary care physician, he is Turkish with a name I cannot pronounce. And I can only afford him now because of my new policy through the ACA. I really like him. He's probably the best PCP I've ever been to.

And after the initial exam we talked a bit and he said, "So this Obama, despite the right trying to derail the new healthcare law, how is this working for you?" And I said just freaking grand since I am getting a much better deal on blood work and routine tests now. He said it was working well for him, too, but acknowledged that overall American health care sucks and said, "I don't know why Republicans want everyone who cannot get health insurance to go to the ER every time they need medical attention. Don't they realize this just drives up their costs and policies?" I dunno doc, you got me.[/QUOTE]

Your anecdote also brings up an interesting factor that actually contributes to our helathcare standings in the world.

In some conversations I had with foreign doctors, they've stated that without doubt, the US pays physicians much, much more than in any other country......Ergo, the best of those foreign physicians scramble to migrate to the states, contributing to a dearth of specialists in other [especially emerging] countries.

 

[ClosedCaption]

US healthcare is the best n the world for when people actually gte sick. This has been posted over and over.
Exceptional doesnt mean perfect. No one claims the US is perfect. For starters we have Democrats.

Its the best in the world if you can pay....Annnnnd if you believe the hype

 

[pismoe]

and whats the big deal , looks like you are talking about what , 79 for Americans compared to a Japanese guy , probably a woman . 79 to 83 , 4 years probably due to diet choices so just eat more fish , drink some tea .

If the above is the extent of your knowledge of statistics, no debate is necessary.

take ahold of your own health Nat , take care of yourself , be responsible . I have no respect for the truthfulness of most stats , your included , Eat some tuna , drink some tea and see what happens .

 

[pismoe]

irresponsibility may be why some Americans were too poor to afford American doctors and so now have to rely on cheap imported Turkish doktors Nat !!

 

[initforme]

The fast food industry, while making it easy and is very profitable, is partially responsible for the health crosses in this country. I am not saying we should ban it or regulate it or anything, but there are ALOT of dumb Americans out there who believe that eating it won't hurt them. Instead of broccoli, they grab a donut and wonder why they are fat and obese. Instead of getting up and walking, jogging, etch, they sit on their butts. Eat less, eat better, exercise more, don't work so hard. Save some energy for at night and go out and exercise. Working hard for some lousy company isn't going to help you get ahead. Slow and steady always is best

 

[Moonglow]

law of nature , well better than being kept alive on pharmaceuticals in my opinion Moonglow . What 30 extra years in a wheelchair gulping pills sounds good to you ??

It's not 6 feet under...

 

[Moonglow]

irresponsibility may be why some Americans were too poor to afford American doctors and so now have to rely on cheap imported Turkish doktors Nat !!

Some are from the Philippines...

 

[pismoe]

I mean , he11 , all my life I only went to the Doctors when I was wheeled into the Doctors or my parents made me go to the Doctors . Some of you people seem to be so Delicate I guess . Bad genes perhaps or maybe your parents have had you on medications for common maladies all your lives . Yep , sorry to see that you guys are so weak that you need healthcare . Think how bad its its going to be when you get older !!

 

[pismoe]

law of nature , well better than being kept alive on pharmaceuticals in my opinion Moonglow . What 30 extra years in a wheelchair gulping pills sounds good to you ??

It's not 6 feet under...

UNTIL it is 6 foot under Moonglow !!

 

[pismoe]

The fast food industry, while making it easy and is very profitable, is partially responsible for the health crosses in this country. I am not saying we should ban it or regulate it or anything, but there are ALOT of dumb Americans out there who believe that eating it won't hurt them. Instead of broccoli, they grab a donut and wonder why they are fat and obese. Instead of getting up and walking, jogging, etch, they sit on their butts. Eat less, eat better, exercise more, don't work so hard. Save some energy for at night and go out and exercise. Working hard for some lousy company isn't going to help you get ahead. Slow and steady always is best

let'em eat what they like 'init' . To bad that they don't know how to cook or fix the simplest things . Course , I've known how to cook all my life , same with my kids .

 

[The Rabbi]

We have far and away the #1 healthcare system in the world, you're not doing to well on dealing with facts[/QUOTE]

First, its "too well" and not "to well" (which would be another discussion on our exceptionalism regarding education.)

But, we have the best health care system ONLY for those who can afford it.....and we subsidize that system by paying 3 times as much as any other industrialized nation on the planet.[/QUOTE]
OK, so the initial gambit--we dont have the best healthcare system in the world--failed. So now it's on to "only rich people can get health care." That also isnt true. In fact over 90% of people polled before Obamacare were satisfied with their health care.

 

[initforme]

After a long day at work no matter how tired we were, my wife and I cooked goo dmeals. Low fat meats, veggies, no French fries except for a treat, etc. Its paid off. So many people lean on fast food. While I am not for banning it or regulating it, how successful fast food is points to how dumb Americans are when they know the health detriments it has. Is it really food?

 

[initforme]

We do need to ensure everyone has health insurance. While obamacare isn't the solution, there must be a way to make sure nobody is without. Healthcare should go along with citizenship.

 

[nat4900]

We do need to ensure everyone has health insurance. While obamacare isn't the solution, there must be a way to make sure nobody is without. Healthcare should go along with citizenship.

I'd agree.....Medicare for citizens 0-30 as well as those over 65.....Every five years the gap would decrease; e.g., 0-35 and 60 and over; .....0-40 and 55 and over;.....0-45 and 50 and over, etc.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

and whats the big deal , looks like you are talking about what , 79 for Americans compared to a Japanese guy , probably a woman . 79 to 83 , 4 years probably due to diet choices so just eat more fish , drink some tea .

If the above is the extent of your knowledge of statistics, no debate is necessary.

take ahold of your own health Nat , take care of yourself , be responsible . I have no respect for the truthfulness of most stats , your included , Eat some tuna , drink some tea and see what happens .

"....take care of yourself, be responsible." What an incredibly stupid statement. Then let's just shut down our health care system, close hospitals and tell our doctors we don't need them anymore.

Do you have kids? If so, were they born in a hospital or at home with a midwife from your 'holler there in the hills?